The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)

[Furniture]

I’m worried you’re just going to end up with another GDLS, Irving type situation with a Saab Aerospace plant. The RCAF flying Gripens into the 2090’s…

I'm hoping we end up with that sort of situation, where we have an established maker, with lots of well-paid Canadian jobs, so that the GoC buys more kit more often.

The alternative is a boom/bust cycle of buying cool kit, then running it well past the best before date, because there is no political cost to doing that. If we have a maker, and the orders run out, there are lots of jobs on the line and a big political cost to letting those jobs go. Hence the CAs use of the LAV platform, and the GoC not seeming to be interested in cutting the numbers of RCDs.

 

[Altair]

If Canada had Gripens already, I would not be the negative nelly that I am on it.

But let’s be honest it is a near orphan aircraft, (and while we know the RCAF tends to love get stuck with orphans) it really isn’t a good option.

Yes, of course.

Other nations fly 4th gen fighters, peachy. Canada flies 4th gen fighters, disaster .

Other nations have dual fighter fleets, peachy. Canada flies dual fighter fleets, disaster.

I dont buy it.

@Good2Golf You must see a lot more in Saab than I do, frankly I would be much more interested in wooing BAE, and also shoving money at Canadian Aerospace to join GCAP.

I’m worried you’re just going to end up with another GDLS, Irving type situation with a Saab Aerospace plant. The RCAF flying Gripens into the 2090’s…

SAAB/Sweden isnt going to fly the Gripen E into the 2090s. Thats why im so pro Gripen. Sweden doesnt sit on its hands for generations ,they take their defense seriously.

They will drag Canada along and Canada will want to keep up for the ongoing jobs and industrial benefits.

Again, i look at the LAV and GDLS in london. The LAV series being the one program we dont let gather dust.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

With all this talk about the F-35 vs Gripen E/F I thought I would add this comparison chart comparing the F-35 vs Gripen C/D. The Gripen E/F has newer engines with 25% more thrust, a new AESA radar, newer avionics and an IRST system.

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[suffolkowner]

Internal - F35

External - comparable

Ferry - Gripen.

Considering Gripen doesnt really need to worry about stealth, i dont think tossing tanks on them matters that much, but i'll let the airheads speak to that one.

The question isnt whether you can slap tanks on a Gripem its what it can do with them on.

 

[Good2Golf]

@Good2Golf You must see a lot more in Saab than I do, frankly I would be much more interested in wooing BAE, and also shoving money at Canadian Aerospace to join GCAP.

I’m worried you’re just going to end up with another GDLS, Irving type situation with a Saab Aerospace plant. The RCAF flying Gripens into the 2090’s…

Saab as a path to Canada’s increased productivity and collaboration with Europe to bolster its own aerospace capacity with trusted partner nations for decades, not the 1st order capability of the Gripen flying out of YOD, YBG, etc.

 

[KevinB]

Saab as a path to Canada’s increased productivity and collaboration with Europe to bolster its own aerospace capacity with trusted partner nations for decades, not the 1st order capability of the Gripen flying out of YOD, YBG, etc.

Well I wish you luck, I think there are much better horses in Europe for Canada to bet on.

 

[Altair]

Well I wish you luck, I think there are much better horses in Europe for Canada to bet on.

Name a company willing to offer what SAAB is.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Well I wish you luck, I think there are much better horses in Europe for Canada to bet on.

If its Germany, Spain and Sweden - and maybe throw in Poland, because I think that that they can be a reliable Ally going forward - then I think that could be a viable consortium. Otherwise, GCAP all the way baby.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Name a company willing to offer what SAAB is.

If it sounds too good to be true.....

 

[Good2Golf]

Well I wish you luck, I think there are much better horses in Europe for Canada to bet on.

Don’t get me wrong, at the moment, I’d rather hitch my horse to Dassault, but here we are.

 

[markppcli]

Internal - F35

External - comparable

Ferry - Gripen.

Considering Gripen doesnt really need to worry about stealth, i dont think tossing tanks on them matters that much, but i'll let the airheads speak to that one.

The Gripen also absolutely needs to worry about its radar cross section. Thats how it gets targeted. In a BVR engagement RCS equates to how far out the other guy is launching his missiles - you want to do that first. A Gripen with a big RCS gets engaged before a jet with a smaller one. If we dont care about its performance in air to air combat why are we buying a fighter at all?

 

[Altair]

The Gripen also absolutely needs to worry about its radar cross section. Thats how it gets targeted. In a BVR engagement RCS equates to how far out the other guy is launching his missiles - you want to do that first. A Gripen with a big RCS gets engaged before a jet with a smaller one. If we dont care about its performance in air to air combat why are we buying a fighter at all?

Different fighters for different needs.

All the countries using Rafales, Eurofighters, F16s have similiar concerns, and they all find a way to use them.

Canada isn't a special little case where we absolutely have zero requirements for a 4th Gen fighter. Even the mighty US of A finds a use for 4th gen fighters.

Unless someone is willing to state exactly how the Gripen is miles worse that a Rafale, Typhoon, F16 block 70/72, I really don't want to hear it.