"The stuff the army issues is useless" and "no non-issue kit over seas!"
- Thread starter PhilB
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Lone Wolf Quagmire said:
Feed back should be coming once the folks being issued it right now start writing. I do know that when it is not assembled correctly it is uncomfortable and when put together properly, it can handle some pretty heavy loads comfortably. The 1st is very simple, an intro to the parts and the assembly points. The second is the shaping of the stays. And the third is how to put it on, adjust it, and take it off. I am intersted in this sort of tuff and was very happy with the 2 weeks plus training that I received on it.
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Bomber are you in the postion where you will be training other troops? 2 weeks seems like along time as our guys are getting 1 day. 3x 40 min classes. Now don't get me wrong the info is necessary. I was refering to how you when you learn a certain class in the Inf and 40 min are alloted and it only takes 15 to cover the material.
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I had to come back, the invective well was running dry and we can't have that now can we?
Firstly, I love lemonade. Almost as much as Gin and Tonic with double lime.
Secondly, I never suggested that we have to fight like the ANA, that would be impossible. We already live in a country that is free and relatively clear of any real or perceived threats for that matter. We're not motivated enough to fight like the ANA. In theatre, the average troop sees the ANA when they're on their down time. They tend to laze about the FOBs pretty much like we do in similar circumstances, we just go to a better gym. They've had good role models to follow when it comes to their leisurely persuits. If anyone tries to suggest they lack in the art of killing the TB, check their record. They've been doing it for a very long time now and they're pretty good at it. We can't fight like them but we do have to keep up, however, and that means staying as light as possible. If it's not mission essential, it's staying under the cot and that was true in the BG as well.
Was I less effective with "1 less mag"? Perhaps, but I don't recall ever needing mag #10. The 200 odd ANA in the vicinity seemed to be prepared to take up the slack quite nicely. Perhaps carrying no ammo would inspire me to call in the Guns, FA or CCA just a tad quicker.
Finally, it's a pretty ruck, no doubt about it. Probably comparable to the best civy ruck you might be able to find. I don't know any campers that would be inspired to use it but...The nicest thing is you barely have to put anything in it to make weight for the BFT. The lessons on how to wear it isn't a problem, what else are you going to do with those four hours? SISIP briefings stop being fun the third time through. If you can endure the name "CTS Rucksack" then you should be able to sit through the lessons on how to wear it to it's full effect to make your next hump through the wastelands known as Wainwright an enjoyable experience.
Next we'll be calling the 521 the "DLCSPM Radio" and the LAV III the "DAVPM Light Armoured Vehicle". I cringe everytime I hear the acronym. As soon as the teams have finished spreading their bountiful knowledge upon their target audience it will quickly become known as the "'07 pattern ruck" or more likely the "GBFB" (I'm sure you can figure that one out)
According to a fairly reliable source, the UCR file on the Tac Vest is quite light. I'm not sure if they're using some creative accounting methods but if you don't like a piece of kit, any kit, that includes trucks, rifle sights or down-hill skies the only recourse is the UCR, completed in it's entirety, naturally. There's no co-incidence that the form is a monster and you need to be a supply tech to get all the info required to fill it in to the Life Cycle Managers satisfaction. An incomplete UCR quickly finds it's way to the blue bin.
The UCRs should start flying on the issue maglight, with the new LED one on the market and only at the rediculously low price of $40, the army has to start getting those to replace our low-tech, outdated and totally ineffective 200 year old tungsten filament technology based maglights at 1/4 the price. How did we ever survive without LEDs? Wake up you slaggards in the supply system, can't you see we're falling behing here! (I'm hoping you think the preceding arguement is without merit and borders on lunacy, that's how I view the entire TV issue)
I brought my helmet today so let er rip. Like a bunch on this site I've endured much, much worse. So let the "friendly banter" begin, I've got my QC and CAT handy.
Firstly, I love lemonade. Almost as much as Gin and Tonic with double lime.
Secondly, I never suggested that we have to fight like the ANA, that would be impossible. We already live in a country that is free and relatively clear of any real or perceived threats for that matter. We're not motivated enough to fight like the ANA. In theatre, the average troop sees the ANA when they're on their down time. They tend to laze about the FOBs pretty much like we do in similar circumstances, we just go to a better gym. They've had good role models to follow when it comes to their leisurely persuits. If anyone tries to suggest they lack in the art of killing the TB, check their record. They've been doing it for a very long time now and they're pretty good at it. We can't fight like them but we do have to keep up, however, and that means staying as light as possible. If it's not mission essential, it's staying under the cot and that was true in the BG as well.
Was I less effective with "1 less mag"? Perhaps, but I don't recall ever needing mag #10. The 200 odd ANA in the vicinity seemed to be prepared to take up the slack quite nicely. Perhaps carrying no ammo would inspire me to call in the Guns, FA or CCA just a tad quicker.
Finally, it's a pretty ruck, no doubt about it. Probably comparable to the best civy ruck you might be able to find. I don't know any campers that would be inspired to use it but...The nicest thing is you barely have to put anything in it to make weight for the BFT. The lessons on how to wear it isn't a problem, what else are you going to do with those four hours? SISIP briefings stop being fun the third time through. If you can endure the name "CTS Rucksack" then you should be able to sit through the lessons on how to wear it to it's full effect to make your next hump through the wastelands known as Wainwright an enjoyable experience.
Next we'll be calling the 521 the "DLCSPM Radio" and the LAV III the "DAVPM Light Armoured Vehicle". I cringe everytime I hear the acronym. As soon as the teams have finished spreading their bountiful knowledge upon their target audience it will quickly become known as the "'07 pattern ruck" or more likely the "GBFB" (I'm sure you can figure that one out)
According to a fairly reliable source, the UCR file on the Tac Vest is quite light. I'm not sure if they're using some creative accounting methods but if you don't like a piece of kit, any kit, that includes trucks, rifle sights or down-hill skies the only recourse is the UCR, completed in it's entirety, naturally. There's no co-incidence that the form is a monster and you need to be a supply tech to get all the info required to fill it in to the Life Cycle Managers satisfaction. An incomplete UCR quickly finds it's way to the blue bin.
The UCRs should start flying on the issue maglight, with the new LED one on the market and only at the rediculously low price of $40, the army has to start getting those to replace our low-tech, outdated and totally ineffective 200 year old tungsten filament technology based maglights at 1/4 the price. How did we ever survive without LEDs? Wake up you slaggards in the supply system, can't you see we're falling behing here! (I'm hoping you think the preceding arguement is without merit and borders on lunacy, that's how I view the entire TV issue)
I brought my helmet today so let er rip. Like a bunch on this site I've endured much, much worse. So let the "friendly banter" begin, I've got my QC and CAT handy.
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I don't recall the majority of people here slagging the efforts of the ANA. ANP sure but not the ANA.
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Maglight? -- the fact they issue a maglight not a Surefire G2 (cheaper, brighter, more robust) is enough to make heads shake already.
However CSM's outside your chain of command dont get pissy when a troop has his own flashlight...
Or self important Staff Officers who ask stupid questions
S4 "who's carbine is this?" (pointing to tan sprayed C8SFW)
Answer: mine
S4: who did that
Answer: did what
S4: you know what I'm talking about
Answer: no I really dont
S4: painted it
Answer: I did
S4: you've destroyed it, who told you you could do that
Answer: my boss
S4: who's you boss
Answer: Maj XXXXX
S4: Figures he's an idiot
Anyway - thats one of several hundred discussions I've had with morons in the CF abotu kit they neither understand nor use.
However CSM's outside your chain of command dont get pissy when a troop has his own flashlight...
Or self important Staff Officers who ask stupid questions
S4 "who's carbine is this?" (pointing to tan sprayed C8SFW)
Answer: mine
S4: who did that
Answer: did what
S4: you know what I'm talking about
Answer: no I really dont
S4: painted it
Answer: I did
S4: you've destroyed it, who told you you could do that
Answer: my boss
S4: who's you boss
Answer: Maj XXXXX
S4: Figures he's an idiot
Anyway - thats one of several hundred discussions I've had with morons in the CF abotu kit they neither understand nor use.
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sjm,
Supply techs didn't make the UCR form -- just to clear that one up. Nor are we capable of being the only who can completely fill them out as your posts notes.
1) The form (it, it's step by step instructions for completion, and links to how to track it's progress through the system to ensure it's action, are already posted in another thread on this site by me) clearly has a spot where "recommended improvement" is to be included ...
I can only fill it out for the improvements that I can recommend from my own personal experience -- not anyone's on the pointy end that was noted during TIC etc (and THOSE) are the ones that count.
I have also recommended in the other thread that 1 CO submitting 1 UCR, is exactly that -- 1 UCR submitted by 1 user. Now, you know and I know that CO is submitting on behalf of all personnel of his Unit ... but statisticly speaking that is only 1 UCR -- and that is how the powers that be look at it.
I have said it here many many times -- EACH soldier should submit a UCR on the item, even it's a photocopy of someone else's with a unique tracking number placed onto it by your Unit UCR co-ordinator. Most of the troops aren't even AWARE who the UCR co-ordinator is for their Unit -- and that's not a Supply issue. That's a communication within their CoC issue.
Here, we stacked a pile of blank UCRs on the counter of clothing stores a few short years ago ... and had each soldier who came in fill one out regarding the fading of the cadpats. It sure didn't take long for that to get fixed when they were inundated with hundreds of them in a very short timespan.
The tools are out there -- if the end-user isn't going to use the tools properly -- then it won't get fixed.
(Oh, and just so the misinformed/uneducated are aware -- CTS does not equal the Supply system nor does it equal (in any way, shape or form) Supply Techs. It is a Project Cell and Sup techs are the least of it's staff. As well, reviewing of UCR recommendations, determination of UCR merit and it's validity as requiring action or not, nor the UCRs outcome at the national level -- are determined by Sup Techs -- because if they were decisions made by Sup techs ... all the problems would be fixed (!!!) because we're the ones who get to put up with the whining and bitching about kit decisions and make etc that have absolutuely ZERO to do with us. In short -- we take the fall out for these areas which are much outside our realms of work.)
Supply techs didn't make the UCR form -- just to clear that one up. Nor are we capable of being the only who can completely fill them out as your posts notes.
1) The form (it, it's step by step instructions for completion, and links to how to track it's progress through the system to ensure it's action, are already posted in another thread on this site by me) clearly has a spot where "recommended improvement" is to be included ...
I can only fill it out for the improvements that I can recommend from my own personal experience -- not anyone's on the pointy end that was noted during TIC etc (and THOSE) are the ones that count.
I have also recommended in the other thread that 1 CO submitting 1 UCR, is exactly that -- 1 UCR submitted by 1 user. Now, you know and I know that CO is submitting on behalf of all personnel of his Unit ... but statisticly speaking that is only 1 UCR -- and that is how the powers that be look at it.
I have said it here many many times -- EACH soldier should submit a UCR on the item, even it's a photocopy of someone else's with a unique tracking number placed onto it by your Unit UCR co-ordinator. Most of the troops aren't even AWARE who the UCR co-ordinator is for their Unit -- and that's not a Supply issue. That's a communication within their CoC issue.
Here, we stacked a pile of blank UCRs on the counter of clothing stores a few short years ago ... and had each soldier who came in fill one out regarding the fading of the cadpats. It sure didn't take long for that to get fixed when they were inundated with hundreds of them in a very short timespan.
The tools are out there -- if the end-user isn't going to use the tools properly -- then it won't get fixed.
(Oh, and just so the misinformed/uneducated are aware -- CTS does not equal the Supply system nor does it equal (in any way, shape or form) Supply Techs. It is a Project Cell and Sup techs are the least of it's staff. As well, reviewing of UCR recommendations, determination of UCR merit and it's validity as requiring action or not, nor the UCRs outcome at the national level -- are determined by Sup Techs -- because if they were decisions made by Sup techs ... all the problems would be fixed (!!!) because we're the ones who get to put up with the whining and bitching about kit decisions and make etc that have absolutuely ZERO to do with us. In short -- we take the fall out for these areas which are much outside our realms of work.)
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To prevent that nasty mag from emptying on you...please do the following:
Insert 1 x 5.56mm tracer rd as your 3rd round
Insert 1 x 5.56mm tracer rd as your 27th round.
BTW I carried all 10mags in the TV, as well as a Camelbak pistol, frags, smoke...lalalala, and still in the fight had soldiers go down from heat exhaustion .
I never had a stoppage I could attribute to loading 30rds in my mags....and I used 8 out of 10 several times.
Thanks for coming out
Insert 1 x 5.56mm tracer rd as your 3rd round
Insert 1 x 5.56mm tracer rd as your 27th round.
BTW I carried all 10mags in the TV, as well as a Camelbak pistol, frags, smoke...lalalala, and still in the fight had soldiers go down from heat exhaustion .
I never had a stoppage I could attribute to loading 30rds in my mags....and I used 8 out of 10 several times.
Thanks for coming out
sjm, I like the cut of your jib (like a few on here), you speak with a 'straight' tongue.
+1
And too add to the ruck discussion; carried it for the first time with 55+ lbs for about 5 km's, not too bad although, I will reserve total judgement until I have to sustain myself out of it for a prolonged period of time. (96+ hrs)
+1
And too add to the ruck discussion; carried it for the first time with 55+ lbs for about 5 km's, not too bad although, I will reserve total judgement until I have to sustain myself out of it for a prolonged period of time. (96+ hrs)
Jarnhamar
Army.ca Myth
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Man I'm really eating that 30 rounds in a magazine comment 
Jammer I'm more of a tracer in the 2nd & 28th round kinda guy. (I think we had a few convos about the opsec stuff when I as over at your shop unless I'm mistaken you for someone else, i'll fire off a PM in a bit)
I see the difference you're talking about between fighting LIKE the ANA and being light and fast like the ANA, SJM. I remember seeing pictures from soldiers deployed over there in 2002 and I felt bad for them. It looked like they were humping every piece of kit they owned.
A comment was made a few years back on here that new kit is on the market and e need to start buying/making lighter kit. Just because we have the stuff and it can be made to work doesn't mean it's in everyones interest to use it.
Troops are willing to drop $500 on rucksacks, sleeping bags, chest rigs, their own weapon sites and weapon add ons. Hell there is a critical shortage of pistols, I bet half the deploying soldiers would BUY their own pistol if they could use it overseas.
Sure some of those guys dropping that kind of money on kit are going to be the type that go overboard and end up looking like a merc. (unless their CoC calms them down) but there are a lot of soldiers out there who are just willing to spend money on good ki that they realise works better than what their issued. That's telling you something.
We have tons of those little metal folding chairs. It's like saying we shouldn't purchase those sexy expensive reclining chairs that are often used for o groups and meetings etc. We both know that won't fly.
Infidel-6 why did something think that painting your rifle destroyed it??
Jammer I'm more of a tracer in the 2nd & 28th round kinda guy. (I think we had a few convos about the opsec stuff when I as over at your shop unless I'm mistaken you for someone else, i'll fire off a PM in a bit)
I see the difference you're talking about between fighting LIKE the ANA and being light and fast like the ANA, SJM. I remember seeing pictures from soldiers deployed over there in 2002 and I felt bad for them. It looked like they were humping every piece of kit they owned.
A comment was made a few years back on here that new kit is on the market and e need to start buying/making lighter kit. Just because we have the stuff and it can be made to work doesn't mean it's in everyones interest to use it.
Troops are willing to drop $500 on rucksacks, sleeping bags, chest rigs, their own weapon sites and weapon add ons. Hell there is a critical shortage of pistols, I bet half the deploying soldiers would BUY their own pistol if they could use it overseas.
Sure some of those guys dropping that kind of money on kit are going to be the type that go overboard and end up looking like a merc. (unless their CoC calms them down) but there are a lot of soldiers out there who are just willing to spend money on good ki that they realise works better than what their issued. That's telling you something.
We have tons of those little metal folding chairs. It's like saying we shouldn't purchase those sexy expensive reclining chairs that are often used for o groups and meetings etc. We both know that won't fly.
Infidel-6 why did something think that painting your rifle destroyed it??
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Jammer I don't know you or your history but I do know I-6s' and he shots more then my BN in a year. His thoughts on 28 rounds and my personal experience would suggest 28 rounds is ideal. But to each his own.
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28 rounds, absolutely though from my personal experience and from CF training it makes more sense to have the 3rd and 4Th round be the tracer think about your drills and target indication methods and you'll see why.
As for kit well whatever works is best IMO. Softy better then our fleece then wear it, Non issue boots better then our issues ones wear it. If it comes in Cadpat or OD then wear it. Just as long as you are sure it works better for you and does indeed make you more effective. If it's just LCF well why bother with all the expenditure. Unless of course your talking Oakley's and then man you gotta have Oakley's right ;D
As for kit well whatever works is best IMO. Softy better then our fleece then wear it, Non issue boots better then our issues ones wear it. If it comes in Cadpat or OD then wear it. Just as long as you are sure it works better for you and does indeed make you more effective. If it's just LCF well why bother with all the expenditure. Unless of course your talking Oakley's and then man you gotta have Oakley's right ;D
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Vern, chill. I'd never slag the Supply Techs that provided everything I needed to do my job with a smile on their overworked faces while they were doing so.
Most people here like to quote Generals, I'll be different here's one from me (a guy's gotta dream):
"There's no co-incidence that the form is a monster and you need to be a supply tech to get all the info required to fill it in to the Life Cycle Managers satisfaction. An incomplete UCR quickly finds it's way to the blue bin."
I don't know too many troops that have ready access to all the details required for the UCR. I know it was produced by a non-supply tech. I could tell you the exact indiv that did produce it, the paper trails here at the stand-around may be long but they are nothing if not well maintained.
I've had to fill in a UCR or two in my day, without the help of supply it couldn't have been done. Bureaucrats needs an out, an error or omission on a UCR is a perfect out.
Later
Most people here like to quote Generals, I'll be different here's one from me (a guy's gotta dream):
"There's no co-incidence that the form is a monster and you need to be a supply tech to get all the info required to fill it in to the Life Cycle Managers satisfaction. An incomplete UCR quickly finds it's way to the blue bin."
I don't know too many troops that have ready access to all the details required for the UCR. I know it was produced by a non-supply tech. I could tell you the exact indiv that did produce it, the paper trails here at the stand-around may be long but they are nothing if not well maintained.
I've had to fill in a UCR or two in my day, without the help of supply it couldn't have been done. Bureaucrats needs an out, an error or omission on a UCR is a perfect out.
Later
