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"The stuff the army issues is useless" and "no non-issue kit over seas!"

OldSolduer

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DirtyDog said:
The day I'm told I have to wear issue boots (regardless of colour) is probably the first time I will get in any real sh1t in the army.

Then have a chit to back it up. IMO for the first while after these are issued it will be "issue boots only unless medically excused".

Besides, in the Army we obey orders. This is not to say you have to agree.
 

Eye In The Sky

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I have LPO/COTS boots and they are my "issued boots", I don't have a chit to carry around like previous years.  My SCA just indicates "boots, combat, special size" or something.  I had to return my "standard issue" boots to receive my entitlement of LPOs.

I haven't even touched on how much of a gong-show THAT process was last time I went thru it.    :facepalm: 

 

krustyrl

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Eye In The Sky said:
I have LPO/COTS boots and they are my "issued boots", I don't have a chit to carry around like previous years.  My SCA just indicates "boots, combat, special size" or something.  I had to return my "standard issue" boots to receive my entitlement of LPOs.

I haven't even touched on how much of a gong-show THAT process was last time I went thru it.    :facepalm:

I completely understand where you're coming from. I had worn Magnum Stealths for 10 yrs due to pain and suffering from different foot conditions that were documented and a pensioned condition. At the time, these boots were pretty much the only thing that kept me vertical despite trying different boots the service had to offer. No luck in being able to wear (for any great length of time) what WSupply had so the sent me downtown during my posting in Trenton.
 
Then I get posted to a Wing in BC and my boots needed to be changed. The i/c  was not entertaining buying my the boots that worked as best as possible for me and despite going and getting 2 yes 2 chits from the MO (the first chit wasn't worded properly). This Supply clerk asked my why I needed these boots and I indicated the reason and also politely suggesting why would I change boot style from finally finding a pr that worked for me the last 10 yrs, to a pr that clearly had been tried, that would be going back 10 yrs in foot therapy also. This person suggested specially made boots that costed 1500.00 a pr (that are not guaranteed to work for me) vice a pair of 125.00 boots that were not only available but authorised for the past 10 yrs. 
In the end, I ended up NOT getting my boots I needed and released 3b 1.5 yrs later wearing old Stealths that had frayed laces, cracks and in poor condition. 
I too shook my head about the whole thing  :facepalm:
 

OldSolduer

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Again, in my tiny pea brain, if the MEL  is written correctly, why is a Sup Tech questioning it?

I know when one of my troops presents his CoC with a valid medical chit I do not presume to question the MO.
 

Fishbone Jones

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I have not carried a boot chit for years. Anyone needing clarification of my allowance can go check my clothing docs.
 

PuckChaser

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krustyrl said:
This Supply clerk asked my why I needed these boots

I'm wondering who the heck this Sup Tech thought they were, asking about someone's medical condition? There's a reason why MELs don't list the condition the person has, thats private information and shouldn't change the level of service you receive.  :facepalm:
 

Jarnhamar

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PuckChaser said:
I'm wondering who the heck this Sup Tech thought they were, asking about someone's medical condition? There's a reason why MELs don't list the condition the person has, thats private information and shouldn't change the level of service you receive.  :facepalm:

For sure. I'm not one to often take the "none of your f***ing business" route but stuff like this really gets my chicken.
 

krustyrl

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Jim Seggie said:
Again, in my tiny pea brain, if the MEL  is written correctly, why is a Sup Tech questioning it?

I know when one of my troops presents his CoC with a valid medical chit I do not presume to question the MO.

In all fairness, my chit indicated "must wear orthotics and accommodating LPO boots" which was written in 2000 and the point the Supply Tech was "discussing" was the chit was outdated, presumably as the chits from the MIR were only valid for 30 days etc. I indicated to the MO that the Magnums were of a rockered heel and toe and lightweight that made my conditions bearable during the workday and had worn them for the past 10 yrs no questions asked.
The Supply Section at CYTR had a section of files for those that used LPO footwear and when you needed a new pair, they simply checked the files to see if you in fact did use LPO footwear. IMHO a very efficient user-friendly system that eliminated needless re-authorization and wasted time , not to mention any bun-fights.
  My MEL's indicated must wear orthotics however no mention of which type of footwear. Yes, something that maybe should have been clarified but there really wasn't any issue during that posting.  Maybe a new or different location and archaic systems ...I dunno.!  :dunno:

An interesting point here was the Supply Tech mentioned that these boots were not authorised for AVN Techs as the did not have "full leather uppers". This was made very clear to me.  I then questioned why or how was it that in all the documentation at my previous Wing, why was I not informed that these boots were not "safety" boots and why was I permitted to wear "unsafe" boots for the past 10 yrs.?  Who would have been responsible for issuing me these boots despite all the safety features should I have suffered a serious foot inury.
There comes a point when one is close to releasing and was fed up of the constant roadblocks and wasting the MO's time and my time playing this ridiculous game of providing this info... great now you need to find a buyer, now the chit is expired .....yada yada.

Yep, they walk among us.

Note: I had no previous business with the WSupply section before this incident/fiasco as I had been relatively newly posted in so it's not like I went in and was demanding this and that and being a pain in the arse, I just needed to do my job in a comfortable fashion.

 

DirtyDog

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Jim Seggie said:
Then have a chit to back it up. IMO for the first while after these are issued it will be "issue boots only unless medically excused".

Besides, in the Army we obey orders. This is not to say you have to agree.
I haven't had to wear issue boots since I was in the training system.  I figured those days were long gone but now I'm hearing rumours of issue boots being enforced.

I long ago figured out my foot issues and lower leg issues and have managed them.  Part of managing them is not wearing heavy, clumsy, inflexible issue boots.  I can just imagine the hoops I'd have to jump through, and time I'd have to waste (which I don't have) getting a chit. Would I have to present a problem? (ie. go back to hurting myself).  ::)

In the training system and early in my career I suffered through some pretty brutal foot and lower leg issues.  I got on with the job but why would the army force me back into that?  Do they really think I wanted to spend literally thousands of dollars on my own boots for the feck of it? 

Where does this "issue boots only" policy originate from anyway?  How high up the chain?  Do you enforce issue only black boots?  Why would that change for these new brown ones?  Why would enforcement only be implemented for the "first while" after they are issued?

The army can keep making stupid decisions, and it can keep going downhill (and it is), and more and more good people will be leaving.
 

DirtyDog

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Sheep Dog AT said:
My suggestion would be to give them a try. If they don't work then go to plan B
My local clothing stores is only issuing black GPs at the present.  I tried them a long time ago and will not ever wear them again.

I will try any new boots that come out, but I can pretty much guarantee they will be either junk, or not suited to me.

I get it, this is the Army and we do what were told.  But in this instance I say screw that and will wear whatever punishment or fight whatever fight I have to.
 

krustyrl

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I long ago figured out my foot issues and lower leg issues and have managed them.  Part of managing them is not wearing heavy, clumsy, inflexible issue boots.  I can just imagine the hoops I'd have to jump through, and time I'd have to waste (which I don't have) getting a chit. Would I have to present a problem? (ie. go back to hurting myself).  ::)

This was exactly what my point was. Yes, the Supply clerk mentined the summer/winter goretex boots came in something like 75 different sizes (so I was told, I don't know for sure if this was the case) but why in any reasoning (would I go back ten yrs in my case) in my foot therapy. I suffered bad from Achilles Tendonitis and bad Plantar Faciitis from those black ankle boots from before. I had found something that works for me, I wasn't going back to excruciating pain and discomfort.
I had a pair of winter and summer goretex boots, I tried them and they didn't work in my case so however many sizes they came in, was not the issue.
FYI, I am retired now and they sit under my workbench. Supply didn't even want them back when I turned my kit in.
 

PuckChaser

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Thats the funny thing, when I went to get sized for custom boots, I was looked at like "What do you mean they don't fit, we have 75 sizes!" My heel is narrower than the pad of my foot so something that fits the front part of my feet results in my laces joined together in the middle, and my heel raising out of the boot every time I step. Still waiting for my sizing as well, a year later. I'd go and buy myself another pair of SWATs, but with 2 kids and a mortgage I should be spending that $150 a year on things for them, not stuff the CF should issue me.

I'm not sure who these 95% percentile people are that fit issued kit properly, I can't even get combats that fit anymore (and its not a portable keg issue  >:D).
 

OldSolduer

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DirtyDog said:
I haven't had to wear issue boots since I was in the training system.  I figured those days were long gone but now I'm hearing rumours of issue boots being enforced.

I long ago figured out my foot issues and lower leg issues and have managed them.  Part of managing them is not wearing heavy, clumsy, inflexible issue boots.  I can just imagine the hoops I'd have to jump through, and time I'd have to waste (which I don't have) getting a chit. Would I have to present a problem? (ie. go back to hurting myself).  ::)

In the training system and early in my career I suffered through some pretty brutal foot and lower leg issues.  I got on with the job but why would the army force me back into that?  Do they really think I wanted to spend literally thousands of dollars on my own boots for the feck of it? 

Where does this "issue boots only" policy originate from anyway?  How high up the chain?  Do you enforce issue only black boots?  Why would that change for these new brown ones?  Why would enforcement only be implemented for the "first while" after they are issued?

The army can keep making stupid decisions, and it can keep going downhill (and it is), and more and more good people will be leaving.

That's quite the post.

If you don't want to take the time and "jump through the hoops" to get medical clearance, that is your business. I suggest you may want to jump through the hoops ,and get the chit.

My business is enforcing policy, and one of them is dress policy. If it comes to pass, and it has not yet, that the order "issue boots only"  order comes down, then I will enforce it. Until then, I will let the troops wear black combat style boots.

I may or may not agree with the policies, and yes I do push back on policies that are inherently silly, but and the end of the day, if my CO tells me "RSM, get on with it" I get on with it.



 

blacktriangle

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DirtyDog said:
My local clothing stores is only issuing black GPs at the present.  I tried them a long time ago and will not ever wear them again.

I will try any new boots that come out, but I can pretty much guarantee they will be either junk, or not suited to me.

I get it, this is the Army and we do what were told.  But in this instance I say screw that and will wear whatever punishment or fight whatever fight I have to.

Yup. In my recruit training we were told by our Sect Comd

"Don't go wasting your money on dumb stuff from the kit shop. The army will issue you what you need, for the most part. Except for boots. If the boots they give you don't work for you, go buy your own. You are an investment, and you have to protect your body to ever pay off"

I haven't worn issue boots for about 6 years now. I have never missed a day of work, have kept in great shape, and have no problem running the BFT. I did my first BFT in issue boots and couldn't walk normally for a few days after that...same with my first week in the field. Never had that issue since...

But yup - rules are rules. No matter how moronic the people inventing them may be.



 

DirtyDog

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Jim Seggie said:
That's quite the post.

If you don't want to take the time and "jump through the hoops" to get medical clearance, that is your business. I suggest you may want to jump through the hoops ,and get the chit.

My business is enforcing policy, and one of them is dress policy. If it comes to pass, and it has not yet, that the order "issue boots only"  order comes down, then I will enforce it. Until then, I will let the troops wear black combat style boots.

I may or may not agree with the policies, and yes I do push back on policies that are inherently silly, but and the end of the day, if my CO tells me "RSM, get on with it" I get on with it.
Fair enough...

If I seem a little cynical it's because lately I've been getting sick of working myself to the bone making up for the shortcomings of the army and the many idiots it employs.  Doing more with less wears you down eventually and in this climate I'd hate to have someone get in my face and question me about something like my boots.

EDIT - And at my last posting, getting a "boot chit" per se was next to impossible.  I have no idea what it's like where I am now, but I don't imagine it being a simple process nor can I afford the time.
 

2 Cdo

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As someone who has worn both issue and non-issue I see both sides of this issue. The biggest problem I find is that "some" troops embellish their discomfort/injury wearing issue boots in order to have something different. The problem with wearing your high-speed Gucci boots overseas is replacing them when they crap out. Are you going to claim that you can't wear issue boots now?

As for DirtyDog, you sound like you've already made up your mind
but I can pretty much guarantee they will be either junk, or not suited to me.
::)
 

DirtyDog

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2 Cdo said:
As someone who has worn both issue and non-issue I see both sides of this issue. The biggest problem I find is that "some" troops embellish their discomfort/injury wearing issue boots in order to have something different. The problem with wearing your high-speed Gucci boots overseas is replacing them when they crap out. Are you going to claim that you can't wear issue boots now?

As for DirtyDog, you sound like you've already made up your mind ::)
I think it's a fair assumption.

And I'd say 8 out of 10 guys I worked with overseas didn't wear the issue junk.  It was a non-issue.  Personally, if mine had sh1t the bed I would then go to my 2nd pair.  After that my third.  After that, I'd suffer through issued boots.  It's not an argument worth making IMHO.

Yes there are clowns, but I can think of far worse things that people take advantage of in the army.  I know I'm getting a little tired of shelling out $260 every time I need a new set, which can be frequent depending on the field abuse they get.
 

cupper

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DirtyDog said:
at my last posting, getting a "boot chit" per se was next to impossible.  I have no idea what it's like where I am now, but I don't imagine it being a simple process nor can I afford the time.

Two points.

One: Until you actually go through the process, you really won't know how difficult it is. Imagination and reality are sometimes two different things.

Two: If foot problems lead to a medical release, do you think you could afford the time then?
 
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