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The War in Ukraine

suffolkowner said:
reading on the twitter that the Serbian will transfer their 12-14 semi operational Mig29 once they get their French Rafales plus spares in another win for France, Ukraine and the deRussifying of Europe and NATO
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I find that pretty amazing that Serbia is giving Ukraine Mig29s to use against Russia.
 
Czech_pivo said:
I find that pretty amazing that Serbia is giving Ukraine Mig29s to use against Russia.
Click to expand...
maybe not until 2028 lol, although France often diverts production for foreign sales, or twitter BS

www.avionslegendaires.net

En 2028 la Serbie volera sur Dassault Aviation Rafale F4 ! — avionslegendaires.net

Le 30 août 2024, par Arnaud. Lundi dernier nous vous annoncions l'imminence de ce contrat. Après un peu plus de deux ans de négociations Belgrade et Paris sont tombées d'accord sur le Aéronefs Militaires
www.avionslegendaires.net www.avionslegendaires.net
 
Lots of air to air drone clips. The pace of innovation and production seems to be following Moore's law.

 
CBH99 said:


So it isn't just us that he doesn't deliver for...

I realize there are complicating factors, but 2 years is an awfully long time when you've got enemy aircraft and ordinance rapidly closing in RIGHT NOW...
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From the article associated with that video:

Anand announced the planned $406-million purchase in January 2023, but as the Defence Department recently told CBC News, the federal government didn't transfer funds to the United States to pay for the system and start the process until March 2023, at the end of the fiscal year.

"It required more than just a conversation and an agreement between the secretary and the minister. There had to be a contract. And because we were purchasing through the United States, it required congressional approval as well. And so there is actually a legal process in the United States to enable them to acquire and purchase munitions that they would send to another government."

Washington, however, could not begin to negotiate a contract with the manufacturers until it had both its own funds and Canada's money in hand.

The U.S. Congress gave the green light in May 2023.

When Ukraine approached the United States about acquiring air defence systems at the onset of the full Russian invasion, the government in Kyiv was initially told it would take up to five years — an answer that left Ukrainian officials dismayed.

The average time to build a new NASAMS is two years, the CEO of Raytheon, Gregory Hayes, has been quoted as saying.
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So, negotiations started in Nov 2022, announcement was in Jan, transferred funds 31 Mar (end of FY), US had to also give approval which it did in May. And, because it’s not taking from existing orders, it takes 2 years to build a new system.

That sounds super fast in procurement-world when you’re dealing with multiple countries and a system that’s in high demand.
 
dimsum said:
From the article associated with that video:



So, negotiations started in Nov 2022, announcement was in Jan, transferred funds 31 Mar (end of FY), US had to also give approval which it did in May. And, because it’s not taking from existing orders, it takes 2 years to build a new system.

That sounds super fast in procurement-world when you’re dealing with multiple countries and a system that’s in high demand.
Click to expand...

But it is crap if you are being shot at.
 
Colin Parkinson said:
If you want SHORAD for the Reserves. I certainly hope that it has automatic no fire zones as the gun tracks the target past the cab

mil.in.ua

Roshel presented an anti-aircraft version of the Senator armored vehicle with a Ukrainian combat module

The Canadian company Roshel has presented an anti-aircraft system based on the Senator armored vehicle and a Ukrainian combat module
mil.in.ua mil.in.ua
Click to expand...
Got to wonder why 23mm. I get there are the guns available in Ukraine, but it seems to go against their intent to transitioning to NATO standard systems.

Optical guidance…
 
KevinB said:
Got to wonder why 23mm. I get there are the guns available in Ukraine, but it seems to go against their intent to transitioning to NATO standard systems.

Optical guidance…
Click to expand...
Wonder just how many they've got squirrelled away... would the structural supports under the mount and spaces/ducts/whatever for power and control runs probably be sufficient for any RWS with a similar footprint?
 
quadrapiper said:
Wonder just how many they've got squirrelled away... would the structural supports under the mount and spaces/ducts/whatever for power and control runs probably be sufficient for any RWS with a similar footprint?
Click to expand...
Maybe? While the engine is on, I doubt there would be any issues, as that produces a lot of power, the issue would be operating without the engine on, and that isn’t unique to it.

Realistically gun only platforms are really point blank Very Short Range AD.

Guns with optics only are even more limited.

When one looks at the Avenger, it offers 8 Stingers as well as a M3P .50 that takes input from ADA networks for targeting.

Quite honestly the biggest issues with most Turret or RWS FCS isn’t they aren’t designed for AD - so adapting them to take input and targeting data from AD Radar feeds isn’t easy. Without those feeds and aim assists, it would be akin to trying to do AD with a LAV’s 25mm and the poor gunner trying to find the target and make leads based on wild ass guesses.
 
KevinB said:
Got to wonder why 23mm. I get there are the guns available in Ukraine, but it seems to go against their intent to transitioning to NATO standard systems.

Optical guidance…
Click to expand...
With the (almost total) cessation of military hardware support from the US after the Kursk counter-invasion, maybe they are hedging their bets on suppliers in former Soviet bloc states being more reliable long-term.
 
AD missiles are great when you have reloads. Also to cover off a large region like Ukraine, you will need a lot of gun and missile systems. As great as AD missile systems are, do you want to use them to take out a Shahed drone? Unlike the US, most countries will have to do with "good enough" I suspect that Canada would cover the cost of the truck and Ukraine the weapon system, with lot's of ammo in country. So likley very economical.
The bonus about the optical system will be no emissions, so you can create a apparent "gap" in your AD system, the enemy is likley to route the Shahed through and place your gun systems in lines crossing that gap to engage them.
 
Colin Parkinson said:
AD missiles are great when you have reloads. Also to cover off a large region like Ukraine, you will need a lot of gun and missile systems. As great as AD missile systems are, do you want to use them to take out a Shahed drone? Unlike the US, most countries will have to do with "good enough" I suspect that Canada would cover the cost of the truck and Ukraine the weapon system, with lot's of ammo in country. So likley very economical.
The bonus about the optical system will be no emissions, so you can create a apparent "gap" in your AD system, the enemy is likley to route the Shahed through and place your gun systems in lines crossing that gap to engage them.
Click to expand...
There are a lot of passive methods that don't rely upon the Mk1 Eyeball and hand joystick to aim and engage a target.
 
Skysix said:
With the (almost total) cessation of military hardware support from the US after the Kursk counter-invasion, maybe they are hedging their bets on suppliers in former Soviet bloc states being more reliable long-term.
Click to expand...
Other than that not being factual...
 
Germany is supplying Ukraine with an additional IRIS-T AD systems with initial deliveries starting this year:

defence-blog.com

Germany orders 17 more IRIS-T air defense systems for Ukraine

Germany has placed an order for 17 additional IRIS-T air defense systems for Ukraine, with deliveries scheduled to begin in 2024, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz announced during a visit to an Air Force base near Kiel on September 4. The new systems, aimed at bolstering Ukraine's air defense...
defence-blog.com defence-blog.com

Wikipedia info on the systems being supplied can be found here

Meanwhile the Ukrainians are continuing to use FPV drones to down Russian UAVs:

defence-blog.com

Ukrainian troops shoot down Lancet suicide drone

Ukrainian Defense Forces have made significant strides in countering Russian unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) using cost-effective anti-aircraft drone technology. In a recent operation, the 11th Brigade of the National Guard demonstrated the capability of their anti-aircraft drones by taking down...
defence-blog.com defence-blog.com

And in other AD news the Ukrainians have received some unexpected assistance in shooting down Russian UAVs by Belarus:

defence-blog.com

Belarus shoots down two Russian suicide drones

Belarusian air defense forces confirmed the downing of two Shahed-type suicide drones that entered the country’s airspace during a nighttime wave of attacks on Ukraine. This incident marks the first official acknowledgment by Belarusian authorities of Russian drones violating their airspace...
defence-blog.com defence-blog.com
 
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