Tim Hortons in Theatre Merged Thread (in AFG, no plans to preposition)

[Franko]

I've seen the same.

But without tim Hortons people a would have one less thing to to bitch and cry about against people stationed  in KAF, can't take that away from the troops 

Zing!

I preferred Green Bean when I came in from MSG. Better coffee IMHO.

 

[jollyjacktar]

Nerf, you're a sick, sick man.  That stuff made Tim's taste good.  That's hard to do.  I prefered the NAFFI coffee.

 

[Harris]

It does mean they get their mail on time.

I would propose that providing Internet does allow them to get the "mail" on time.  Parcels by container ship or plane yes,  contact from home, not so much.  IMO troops do the majority of their contact home via the Internet and not through written letters.  I'm sure there were many letters sent back and forth, but I suspect that the largest majority were via email and things like skype/facetime.

 

[The_Falcon]

I would propose that providing Internet does allow them to get the "mail" on time.  Parcels by container ship or plane yes,  contact from home, not so much.  IMO troops do the majority of their contact home via the Internet and not through written letters.  I'm sure there were many letters sent back and forth, but I suspect that the largest majority were via email and things like skype/facetime.

That instant connection thing is a double edged sword though (and may have already been discussed before).  Although we can't realistically expect to put the internet genie back in the bottle, and force everyone deployed to stick with good old fashioned letter writing, I am sure we have all seen or know about that 1 guy/gay (and for Snr Leaders several guys/gals), who have an incessant need to call/skype/FB message whatever someone back home, every single day. And if they don't all you can hear is them trying to placate whoever is on the other end for the several hours the next time they make contact.

Like most things in life it's all about moderation.  Can something like a Tim's or whatever in a large base/logistics point be a morale boost for people coming in from the outlying areas, absolutely.  But when things like that becomes an expected entitlement, or a KAFasoreass NCO admonishes the troop(s)  in line wanting that pick me up for being a little dirty/bearded/and shaggy haired because they have been living in a leaguer for a month, and are only in KAF for like an hour, that's when you get issues.

 

[The Bread Guy]

FYI, just pulled in 20+ pages of previous discussion on the Timmie's in K'Har to bring it all together in one place.

Milnet.ca Staff

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

In the context of the operation I saw no problem with Timmies operating an outlet at Kandahar Airfield.  We were there for a decade on a large base so it would only make sense that  creature comforts would gradually be put in place to improve conditions for soldiers serving on the camp.  Is our next big deployment going to have a Timmies?  Most likely no but if we are there for a long time there is no reason why we cannot gradually improve living conditions on the camp.

For those complaining about frontline soldiers not getting their fair share, I say "cry me a river" you chose your trade.  If you are a member of the Combat Arms you should not expect creature comforts of the B-echelons.  You volunteered knowing full well that you would be having tougher time of it so suck it up and stop gripping.

As for communications, most countries, even third world ones, have equal and/or better cellphone coverage then Canada, not to mention that it is incredibly cheap to use a cellphone in most places.  Buy a cheap cellphone in Canada, unlock it if you need to and just buy sim cards.  Obviously issues of OPSEC come to mind but the resources are def there all it takes is a little individual, dare I say it, Initiative.

The problem is that we, some of the leadership of the CF have created expectation that troops - corporals and privates - absolutely require Tim's, Wendy's, KFC and WiFi etc - to function.

Know your troops and promote their welfare. Welfare to me means ensure that they get the training required, they are kitted out properly, they are quartered and fed. It does not mean supplying them with round the clock entertainment or Internet. It does not mean that they need Tim's or any fast food. It does mean the get their mail on time.

A little deprivation and hardship rarely hurts anyone.

Well said Jim

 

[Kat Stevens]

Where exactly is the "creature comfort line" that a Timmy's trailer crosses so egregiously?  Chemical toilets?  Pure luxury, get rid of them... Atco trailers?  We didn't have them on the Somme, get rid of them... Raincoats that work? Pussies, skin is waterproof otherwise all your blood would leak out, get rid of them.  Canvas bell tents, serge tunics and cross  belts for everyone, and blankets woollen X 2ea per man.  That'll get our heads right and into the fight.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Where exactly is the "creature comfort line" that a Timmy's trailer crosses so egregiously?  Chemical toilets?  Pure luxury, get rid of them... Atco trailers?  We didn't have them on the Somme, get rid of them... Raincoats that work? Pussies, skin is waterproof otherwise all your blood would leak out, get rid of them.  Canvas bell tents, serge tunics and cross  belts for everyone, and blankets woollen X 2ea per man.  That'll get our heads right and into the fight.

Agreed, I think most of this is just brought by certain people that think "If I can't have it then nobody can!"

 

[dimsum]

In the context of the operation I saw no problem with Timmies operating an outlet at Kandahar Airfield.  We were there for a decade on a large base so it would only make sense that  creature comforts would gradually be put in place to improve conditions for soldiers serving on the camp.  Is our next big deployment going to have a Timmies?  Most likely no but if we are there for a long time there is no reason why we cannot gradually improve living conditions on the camp.

For those complaining about frontline soldiers not getting their fair share, I say "cry me a river" you chose your trade.  If you are a member of the Combat Arms you should not expect creature comforts of the B-echelons.  You volunteered knowing full well that you would be having tougher time of it so suck it up and stop gripping.

As for communications, most countries, even third world ones, have equal and/or better cellphone coverage then Canada, not to mention that it is incredibly cheap to use a cellphone in most places.  Buy a cheap cellphone in Canada, unlock it if you need to and just buy sim cards.  Obviously issues of OPSEC come to mind but the resources are def there all it takes is a little individual, dare I say it, Initiative.

Well said Jim

QFMFT. 

 

[Jarnhamar]

We should have opened up a Tim Hortons in Khandahar. Right by the Golden Arches. Get em all nice and addicted.
(The forced photo ops were pretty brutal)

And like mentioned above there was a very serious unethical amount of hording going on with Tims Cards.


far as cell's go I had a roshan cellphone and called home every now and then. Paid out the *** for the phone cards but the crystal clear connection beat the welfare phones 2-3 second delay, static and transformer robot voice changer (Like soundwave not Optimus).
Not to mention having to hear guys telling bullshit warstories to people back home or the people loosing their crap over the phone because so and so seen them at the warehouse or shots with the neighbor.

 

[DirtyDog]

For those complaining about frontline soldiers not getting their fair share, I say "cry me a river" you chose your trade.  If you are a member of the Combat Arms you should not expect creature comforts of the B-echelons.  You volunteered knowing full well that you would be having tougher time of it so suck it up and stop gripping.

Yep.  That's why we got the danger and hardship allowances.  Oh wait.....

Seriously though, I could give a shit and I wouldn't want to deprive people out of spite. It got to be a little rich at times, and as I said earlier, I'd be happier to see resources devoted elsewhere.

And yeah... I knew more than a few guys with "local" cell phones.

 

[Jarnhamar]

We should have had the Clerks(tm) try and keep track of who stays in KAF, who's stationed at a FOB and goes outside the wire, who's stationed at a FOB but doesn't go outside the wire, who's in a COP.  Infantry guys who are CQ staff and stay in KAF making less than a trucker who's on the road every day. Soldiers wounded and spending time in KAF loosing dangerpay and hardship allowance. Half a dozen different pay incentives and levels, always changing. 



I'm actually surprised KBR didn't force Tim Hortons to shut down.

 

[Teager]

Wounded soldiers don't loose there danger pay.

 

[Ostrozac]

We should have had the Clerks(tm) try and keep track of who stays in KAF, who's stationed at a FOB and goes outside the wire, who's stationed at a FOB but doesn't go outside the wire, who's in a COP.  Infantry guys who are CQ staff and stay in KAF making less than a trucker who's on the road every day. Soldiers wounded and spending time in KAF loosing dangerpay and hardship allowance. Half a dozen different pay incentives and levels, always changing. 

I know that you're joking -- but I believe that this was actually tried on Kabul Roto 2, with different pay scales for pers working inside Camp Julien and those who patrolled or did supply runs outside the camp. As I understand, this was abandoned as way too much paperwork for no real benefit.

Just for curiosity sake, how does the air force work the paperwork when an aircrew is based in a low hardship and risk location (Mirage, or Sicily), but flies sorties into an operational area (Afghanistan, or Libya)? Do the clerks count the individual days spent in the warzone for each crewmember? Or is aircrew given the higher rate for the entire month?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

We should have had the Clerks(tm) try and keep track of who stays in KAF, who's stationed at a FOB and goes outside the wire, who's stationed at a FOB but doesn't go outside the wire, who's in a COP.  Infantry guys who are CQ staff and stay in KAF making less than a trucker who's on the road every day. Soldiers wounded and spending time in KAF loosing dangerpay and hardship allowance. Half a dozen different pay incentives and levels, always changing. 



I'm actually surprised KBR didn't force Tim Hortons to shut down.

Jeez Louise, OZ. You can`t serious. Everyone was in a warzone. Some got attacked daily, some not at all. That`s beside the point.

Are you telling me your CQ or his helpers didn`t deserve what they got. Or the clerks, medics, pay cell or cooks.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Yep.  That's why we got the danger and hardship allowances.  Oh wait.....

Seriously though, I could give a crap and I wouldn't want to deprive people out of spite. It got to be a little rich at times, and as I said earlier, I'd be happier to see resources devoted elsewhere.

And yeah... I knew more than a few guys with "local" cell phones.

Like I said, its a volunteer army and nobody is forcing you to do anything if you feel like you aren't getting enough money or aren't getting the support you need then VR and go work in a job that has a union.  I would personally do the job for no extra money because I like this line of work and I believe in the organization and what we do but hey that is just me. 

I think what has been alluded to here but has not been said is the Tim Horton's trailer was a drop in the hat in terms of money and resources allocated and a very small one.  Canada spent in the 10's of Billions in Afghanistan and with a Tim's Trailer costing a $100,000 this expenditure in the scheme of military expendituresthis means nothing.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Jeez Louise, OZ. You can`t serious. Everyone was in a warzone. Some got attacked daily, some not at all. That`s beside the point.

Are you telling me your CQ or his helpers didn`t deserve what they got. Or the clerks, medics, pay cell or cooks.

Not at all.  I find people worrying about how much others are making is a sense of entitlement.




I'm not a coffee drinker but I'd rather spend money on an air-deployable QRF timhortons trailer or whatever than the money we're spending on putting Royal back in our names or changing around ranks on uniforms.

 

[The_Falcon]

I find the talk of money rather interesting.  Given my present location, I work with interact with Americans, French, Hungarian, Romanian, Portugese, Norwegian, Bulgarian.  The amount of money an indidividual Canadian  makes when deployed compared to our NATO Allies is astounding.  ALOT of countries don't even pay half of what we do.

And if the pay system, wasn't an ancient DOS based POS perhaps it would be much easier to adjust allowances and the like to individual circumstances.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

I find the talk of money rather interesting.  Given my present location, I work with interact with Americans, French, Hungarian, Romanian, Portugese, Norwegian, Bulgarian.  The amount of money an indidividual Canadian  makes when deployed compared to our NATO Allies is astounding.  ALOT of countries don't even pay half of what we do.

And if the pay system, wasn't an ancient DOS based POS perhaps it would be much easier to adjust allowances and the like to individual circumstances.

We have it pretty friggin good, especially considering some jobs require little to no formal education.  I have a degree in political science which is basically something I consider equivalent to basket weaving and make $75,000 a year.  Know what my friends with similar backgrounds on the civvy side do?  They work at Starbucks making $10.25 an hour so our money is astronomically better then most!

 

[GAP]

I find the talk of money rather interesting.  Given my present location, I work with interact with Americans, French, Hungarian, Romanian, Portugese, Norwegian, Bulgarian.  The amount of money an indidividual Canadian  makes when deployed compared to our NATO Allies is astounding.  ALOT of countries don't even pay half of what we do.

And if the pay system, wasn't an ancient DOS based POS perhaps it would be much easier to adjust allowances and the like to individual circumstances.

Canadian Forces have always been better paid than most. The guys used to razz me about joining the marines to get 200/mo as a Sgt (plus 65/mo combat pay) when I could be making more in the CF.

that said, about a year ago or so, someone posted a comparison. There didn't seem to be that much difference, but the past is better remembered than lived..... ;D