Tim Hortons in Theatre Merged Thread (in AFG, no plans to preposition)
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Geo's spot on in regards to the rations, you pay for what you eat thus its up to the individual. If you've got respect for yourself and for your job then you respect what you eat. If you dont you tend to become the sort of person people whisper about behind their hands.
But anyway, this isnt the post for all that, this is post to say that the boys and girls over in the stan are working hard enough to deserve a maple swirl and a cup of Char (char being tea, thats my order when i was in Canada at least) every now and then. Good on Timmies, now its just up to Hungry Jacks and Uncle Jeseppe to open a shop for us Aussies in the stan or Iraq
But anyway, this isnt the post for all that, this is post to say that the boys and girls over in the stan are working hard enough to deserve a maple swirl and a cup of Char (char being tea, thats my order when i was in Canada at least) every now and then. Good on Timmies, now its just up to Hungry Jacks and Uncle Jeseppe to open a shop for us Aussies in the stan or Iraq
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because there's more at the desert table then the salad bar! :blotto:
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(Mods, if this has already been posted I apologize)
This one really ticked me off. After all the flag waving and free publicity Tim Horton's got from opening the outlet in Kandahar it turns out the taxpayers are actually paying for it. Kudos to the government for making this happen but with the huge profits Tim Horton's is making off Canadians it really sucks the best they would do is wave the franchise fee. I can't help but wonder if this would be the case if Tim Horton's was still a Canadian company. Guess I will be getting my coffee elsewhere from now on.
http://www.canada.com/globaltv/national/story.html?id=886b7564-148b-4414-b9b2-74d625bef02a
Ottawa foots bill for Afghan Tim Hortons
Canadian taxpayer foots nearly $4-million bill
Hannah Boudreau
globalnational.com
Tuesday, October 31, 2006
OTTAWA — Just how much is a double-double and a doughnut worth to Canada’s troops?
Those on the ground in Afghanistan, where a Tim Hortons trailer opened earlier this year, might say the special Canadian treat is priceless.
For Canadian taxpayers, however, the morale-boosting move by the Canadian Forces has so far cost nearly $4 million and will continue to cost about $5 million each year, Global National has learned.
Although Tim Hortons waived the $450,000 franchise fee, the total cost for the first year of operations at Tim Hortons’ Kandahar franchise was over $3.9 million. Keeping the operation running throughout the duration of Canada’s mission in Afghanistan is estimated to cost as much as $5 million a year.
Documents obtained through Access to Information Act requests show the Canadian government purchased and retrofitted two trailers at a cost of $378,000. Transporting the coffee trailers to Afghanistan using two rented Soviet-era Illyushin-76 cargo planes cost another $425,000.
The first delivery of ingredients, in late June, cost another $1.4 million and sustaining the business through the first year rang up to about $550,000. Further costs associated with the Afghan Tim Hortons are $350,000 for engineering work to establish the outlet; $150,000 for operation and maintenance of the site; $650,000 in salaries; and $30,000 in training costs.
The Kandahar Tim Hortons serves approximately 2,300 Canadian troops, as well as 5,000 personnel from other countries.
The outlet serves more than 1,000 cups of coffee a day and, in its second month of operation, actually ran out of doughnuts and Timbits due to high demand.
What will happen to the profits is still to be determined, said Defence Department officials. Any money made will be held in a trust account for the time being and will most likely go into programs to support soldiers and their families.
"I don’t think the Canadian public will see this coming back," said Tyler Chamberlain with Ottawa University’s School of Management. "Hopefully, that contribution is going to be felt by the troops."
For many soldiers, a little taste of home helps pass the time in a country that has claimed the lives of 42 comrades since 2002.
"If you’ve had an interesting day, you can come back here and unwind and decompress," said Master Sgt. Eric Cramer. "It lets you go back, ready for another try."
© Global National 2006
This one really ticked me off. After all the flag waving and free publicity Tim Horton's got from opening the outlet in Kandahar it turns out the taxpayers are actually paying for it. Kudos to the government for making this happen but with the huge profits Tim Horton's is making off Canadians it really sucks the best they would do is wave the franchise fee. I can't help but wonder if this would be the case if Tim Horton's was still a Canadian company. Guess I will be getting my coffee elsewhere from now on.
http://www.canada.com/globaltv/national/story.html?id=886b7564-148b-4414-b9b2-74d625bef02a
Ottawa foots bill for Afghan Tim Hortons
Canadian taxpayer foots nearly $4-million bill
Hannah Boudreau
globalnational.com
Tuesday, October 31, 2006
OTTAWA — Just how much is a double-double and a doughnut worth to Canada’s troops?
Those on the ground in Afghanistan, where a Tim Hortons trailer opened earlier this year, might say the special Canadian treat is priceless.
For Canadian taxpayers, however, the morale-boosting move by the Canadian Forces has so far cost nearly $4 million and will continue to cost about $5 million each year, Global National has learned.
Although Tim Hortons waived the $450,000 franchise fee, the total cost for the first year of operations at Tim Hortons’ Kandahar franchise was over $3.9 million. Keeping the operation running throughout the duration of Canada’s mission in Afghanistan is estimated to cost as much as $5 million a year.
Documents obtained through Access to Information Act requests show the Canadian government purchased and retrofitted two trailers at a cost of $378,000. Transporting the coffee trailers to Afghanistan using two rented Soviet-era Illyushin-76 cargo planes cost another $425,000.
The first delivery of ingredients, in late June, cost another $1.4 million and sustaining the business through the first year rang up to about $550,000. Further costs associated with the Afghan Tim Hortons are $350,000 for engineering work to establish the outlet; $150,000 for operation and maintenance of the site; $650,000 in salaries; and $30,000 in training costs.
The Kandahar Tim Hortons serves approximately 2,300 Canadian troops, as well as 5,000 personnel from other countries.
The outlet serves more than 1,000 cups of coffee a day and, in its second month of operation, actually ran out of doughnuts and Timbits due to high demand.
What will happen to the profits is still to be determined, said Defence Department officials. Any money made will be held in a trust account for the time being and will most likely go into programs to support soldiers and their families.
"I don’t think the Canadian public will see this coming back," said Tyler Chamberlain with Ottawa University’s School of Management. "Hopefully, that contribution is going to be felt by the troops."
For many soldiers, a little taste of home helps pass the time in a country that has claimed the lives of 42 comrades since 2002.
"If you’ve had an interesting day, you can come back here and unwind and decompress," said Master Sgt. Eric Cramer. "It lets you go back, ready for another try."
© Global National 2006
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They not be making any "dollar" profits from this but they are making millions in free publicity, public relations and good will. One MSM report of Tim Horton's doing good things for Canada is worth more to corporate profits than most advertising. The expression "you can't buy that kind of publicity" is common amongst marketing professionals in big corporations and Tim's is riding this one. How often have we seen the Tim Horton's logo in the background of photographs and news stories (more advertising) from Afghanistan and it is all a lie. It should actually be the DND logo. Wendy's (who actually own Tim Horton's) could easily write off the expense of this as advertising or pr. Instead, DND is adding to their corporate profits.ArmyVern said:
BTW, it is estimated that the average Tim's will recoup the initial investment in a franchise within 2 years of opening.
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Morning every one if your talking about a proper logo for the Timmie's out let it should be CFPSA . Yes DND and Timmie's both help with the out let but its actually run by the CFPSA people . I just finished my two weeks predeployment training in CFB Kingston had a great time now I am just waiting for the final phone on weather or not I get to go and where I would be going . If you any questions about the Timmie's out let I will try and answer what I can for you .
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"CTV News" had a segment on the news about Tim Hortons in Afg. The profits are going right back into the public coffers to support programs for the troops and their families in country. Tim's won't make a dime. The profits are probabaly a far cry from the 4 M that the tax payers are paying to operate the place. But did we already forget how the Liberal black hole swallowed 240M on absolutey nothing? At least we are seeing some benefits come from these tax dollars. Anything that eases the stress for our men and women who are serving over there is money well spent.
So instead of criticizing the inititive, "I don't have one in my town or there's not enough outlet's out west" Who gives a rat's A@#, give it some positive feedback, because the people over there read this board also and the last thing they need to read about is some griping Canadians back at home who are safe and sound griping about what its costing to keep their Tim Hortons over there. God knows they probabaly hear enough of "Jack Laytons" garbage already and they don't need to hear it from their fellow Canadians.
And lastly for all you naysayers out there, why don't you put a uniform on and join them, then we'll see how much your attitude will change. Its easy to critisize from a distance, its hard to step up and put that empty blathering into action. Youll be thankful to have that "Large Double double"!
SUPPORT OUR TROOPS AND GIVE THEM ANYTHING THEY NEED TO GET THE JOB DONE!!!!!!
"PRO PATRIA"
So instead of criticizing the inititive, "I don't have one in my town or there's not enough outlet's out west" Who gives a rat's A@#, give it some positive feedback, because the people over there read this board also and the last thing they need to read about is some griping Canadians back at home who are safe and sound griping about what its costing to keep their Tim Hortons over there. God knows they probabaly hear enough of "Jack Laytons" garbage already and they don't need to hear it from their fellow Canadians.
And lastly for all you naysayers out there, why don't you put a uniform on and join them, then we'll see how much your attitude will change. Its easy to critisize from a distance, its hard to step up and put that empty blathering into action. Youll be thankful to have that "Large Double double"!
SUPPORT OUR TROOPS AND GIVE THEM ANYTHING THEY NEED TO GET THE JOB DONE!!!!!!
"PRO PATRIA"
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retiredgrunt45 said:
I am not really sure why this comment as I have not read a single remark on here that criticizes the initiative just the fact that Tim Horton's is getting all kinds of free publicity for it. I, for one, completely support the fact that it is there but am pretty darned ticked that Tim's couldn't see fit to fund it while they reap the rewards.
As I said above, the news stories about the Tim's in Kandahar, in addition to all the shots of the logo in news stories, etc, is worth millions to them in advertising and the best they could do was wave the franchise fee. Not a dime has come out of TH's pocket and Canadians should be aware of it. I would like to think that Tim Horton is turning in his grave over the lack of support the company bearing his name is actually showing our troops. What do you want to bet that the Kandahar Tim's shows up in TH's Christmas advertising?
rmacqueen said:
Tim Horton's is a publicly held company with "thousands" of owners, and the board of directors is responsible to these thousands of owners. You can't just up and commit millions of dollars of company money and expect them all to clap and say "go boy", no matter how much we would like them to. If Tim's doesn't pony up a cent what's the difference? Our folks now have access to a "double/double" and some Timbits, and if over time it costs the government 205million who cares.
Why can't we just appreciate the fact that our guys have a well deserved, little slice of home?
potato
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Didn't this board have a discussion similar to this over whether the staff at Pet's Timmies be allowed to wear red? That discussion also seemed to focus on Tim Horton's not doing enough for the troops etc blah blah...
I have some problems when individuals assume that it is the sole responsibility of any public or privately held corporation to fund/support/assist in military matters because to not do so, shows a level of unpatriotic demeanor. Again the question goes out, "what would you have these corporations do besides what they appear to be doing at the moment?" (I believe it was George who poised this same question in an earlier thread).
I see various tumble down arguments being used over the whole Timmies in A'stan, all wth the same result - Timmies is only good when they up the coin themselves... and Timmies is bad when they do not...:
The troops need/want a Timmies, why don't the desk bunnies at NDHQ do something about it? - start discussion on the needs of the troops etc versus no one listening/caring back home.
CDS says, make a Timmies happen in A'stan - start discussion on the merits of troop morale and high five-ing the power that be that made the decision.
Local Timmies won't let their staff wear a red shirt on Fridays - Start discussion on how unpatriotic that decision is and how TImmies is not being supportive of the troops.
Timmies opens in Kandahar - start a discussion and high five all those responsible but forgetting to ask, "who *IS* paying for this anyway?"
Timmies in Kandahar costs taxpayers to establish and sustain. - start a discussion on how Timmies is a greedy corporate slut making money off the backs of our troops and not being patriotic at all.
This has the markings of *the* discussion that will never end. (unless Paracowboy finds another torture thread soon)
Personally, if the Timmies in Kandahar appears in any Xmas commercials and they include any troopies in the shot, and little Susie or Jimmy can watch TV and see their daddy or mommy for 30 secs in a somewhat normal scenario - I say, roll those cameras.
On a slight OT, I've had my own moment with a local Timmies showing their support to troops. One time at the end of an HTLA and hubby was returning to finish up his last 6 months of his posting, he asked the staff at Halifax Airport's Timmies to put together a box of goodies for the guys and gals for him to take back. When the Timmies manager found out it was for CF personnel, she waived the cost of the goodies and threw in a few cans of coffee on top of the order.
At my local Timmies, when ever they know my hubby is away, they always ask when am I sending the next parcel as they'd like me to include a note from them to wish him and the rest of the CF personnel well and always have a little box of goodies to include. I'm just boggled at what else this corporation could possibly do to show anymore support?
I have some problems when individuals assume that it is the sole responsibility of any public or privately held corporation to fund/support/assist in military matters because to not do so, shows a level of unpatriotic demeanor. Again the question goes out, "what would you have these corporations do besides what they appear to be doing at the moment?" (I believe it was George who poised this same question in an earlier thread).
I see various tumble down arguments being used over the whole Timmies in A'stan, all wth the same result - Timmies is only good when they up the coin themselves... and Timmies is bad when they do not...:
The troops need/want a Timmies, why don't the desk bunnies at NDHQ do something about it? - start discussion on the needs of the troops etc versus no one listening/caring back home.
CDS says, make a Timmies happen in A'stan - start discussion on the merits of troop morale and high five-ing the power that be that made the decision.
Local Timmies won't let their staff wear a red shirt on Fridays - Start discussion on how unpatriotic that decision is and how TImmies is not being supportive of the troops.
Timmies opens in Kandahar - start a discussion and high five all those responsible but forgetting to ask, "who *IS* paying for this anyway?"
Timmies in Kandahar costs taxpayers to establish and sustain. - start a discussion on how Timmies is a greedy corporate slut making money off the backs of our troops and not being patriotic at all.
This has the markings of *the* discussion that will never end. (unless Paracowboy finds another torture thread soon)
Personally, if the Timmies in Kandahar appears in any Xmas commercials and they include any troopies in the shot, and little Susie or Jimmy can watch TV and see their daddy or mommy for 30 secs in a somewhat normal scenario - I say, roll those cameras.
On a slight OT, I've had my own moment with a local Timmies showing their support to troops. One time at the end of an HTLA and hubby was returning to finish up his last 6 months of his posting, he asked the staff at Halifax Airport's Timmies to put together a box of goodies for the guys and gals for him to take back. When the Timmies manager found out it was for CF personnel, she waived the cost of the goodies and threw in a few cans of coffee on top of the order.
At my local Timmies, when ever they know my hubby is away, they always ask when am I sending the next parcel as they'd like me to include a note from them to wish him and the rest of the CF personnel well and always have a little box of goodies to include. I'm just boggled at what else this corporation could possibly do to show anymore support?
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That is where you are wrong. A company like Tim Hortons can easily commit that kind of money without shareholder approval by placing it under marketing and goodwill. Large corporations, such as Wendy's International, all report goodwill as a monetary amount for tax purposes. As well, advertising, such as the trailer in Kandahar, is also reported as an expense. As well, when you look at the breakdown, the expenses are not in the millions on an annual basis and some of the costs would have been born by the government anyway.spud said:
In the quarter immediately prior to the opening of the Tim's in Kandahar, the company reported a 34% increase in profits. This translated into a profit of $63.6 million (Cdn) for three months. This was based on $373 million in sales, of which 3.5% is put into an advertising fund. Again, I would point out that this is for only 3 months!
As far as I am concerned, TH is no better than Jack Layton. They are using Afghanistan as free advertising while doing nothing to help our troops. Remember all the news coverage about how they were going to open the one in Kandahar? Did they at any point mention that it was being paid for by the government? No! Tim Horton's was content to let the Canadian public think that they were great supporters of our troops while the whole time it was our government.
Again, I want to reiterate, the problem is not that TH is not paying it is the fact that they are taking credit for it. Tim Horton's should be ashamed of themselves for taking advantage of the situation for their own corporate profit. The government is the one supplying this for the benefit of our soldiers and TH should not be allowed to take any credit for it.
niner domestic said:
There has been tremendous local support but lets give credit where it is due. This type of thing comes from the managers in the community not from the corporate level. Each outlet varies in the support they give.
rmacqueen said:
I'm not going to argue tax law or corporate governance on here with you, but your view is way too simplisitc.
Only my opinion, I haven't noticed Tim's taking any undue advantage of the situation and to be truthful, I could care less. As I said previously, our folks can now get it and that's good enough for me. Tim's uses it for some marketing, big deal. Any company that thought they could get some mileage out of it would do the same thing.
potato
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Well, let's remember where the initiative for a Tim's in KAF came from in the first place: the media and, in reaction, the CF. There was bleating in the press about the lack of Tim's in theatre (all the while forgetting the logistical challenges and the fact that there's already a variety of other - US - outlets there) and the CF rather reluctantly asked TH to put something together.
Given this, I'm not likely to begrudge TH its profit, realizing that CFPSA is getting a chunk. I happen to be one of those grumpy farts that thinks demands for TH in theatre smacked of whining, but they're there now and stupid media ranting about the "cost" after they led the charge for TH in the first place is somewhat disingenuous.
Given this, I'm not likely to begrudge TH its profit, realizing that CFPSA is getting a chunk. I happen to be one of those grumpy farts that thinks demands for TH in theatre smacked of whining, but they're there now and stupid media ranting about the "cost" after they led the charge for TH in the first place is somewhat disingenuous.
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Now this is only rumour, but I heard that wendy's is thinking of selling Tim's. I hear it's not doing so well in the states.
Now for the real thing.
Yes the Big Bad Wendy's/Tim Horton's Corporation could foot the bill if they wanted to. But there's the kicker. All that money they make in profit, if they use any of it gets taxed to hell. So why not make the government pay for it and therefore FORCE the local populous to pay for it. Should they pay for it, yes. Do I blame them for not paying for it? No. I might as well own a large share in the 4 yes 4 Tim's that reside here in Lindsay. That's how much coffee, donuts, bagels, muffins, etc. I consume. Do I mind footing a bill to ship a Tim's overseas HELLS NO. in fact I say make the thing bigger. A thousand cups of coffee a day? Please that's child's play, we have a tiny little drive-thru/walk-in only outlet that does more than that.
i like my coffee hot, served within twenty minutes, and in extra large double double format. I'll also take a chocolate chip muffin and a vanilla dip donut.
Here's to those that can't have any and those that deserve it more than I.
//EDIT:
With this new knowledge the both the media AND the CF should foot the bill.
Now for the real thing.
Yes the Big Bad Wendy's/Tim Horton's Corporation could foot the bill if they wanted to. But there's the kicker. All that money they make in profit, if they use any of it gets taxed to hell. So why not make the government pay for it and therefore FORCE the local populous to pay for it. Should they pay for it, yes. Do I blame them for not paying for it? No. I might as well own a large share in the 4 yes 4 Tim's that reside here in Lindsay. That's how much coffee, donuts, bagels, muffins, etc. I consume. Do I mind footing a bill to ship a Tim's overseas HELLS NO. in fact I say make the thing bigger. A thousand cups of coffee a day? Please that's child's play, we have a tiny little drive-thru/walk-in only outlet that does more than that.
i like my coffee hot, served within twenty minutes, and in extra large double double format. I'll also take a chocolate chip muffin and a vanilla dip donut.
Here's to those that can't have any and those that deserve it more than I.
//EDIT:
Teddy Ruxpin said:
With this new knowledge the both the media AND the CF should foot the bill.
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It's not a rumour, Wendy's made that announcement back in June to target the remaining shares for sale in the Fall. The speculation is that Tim Horton's will attempt to purchase the outstanding stock.
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