TKMS Type 212CD (Victoria class replacement megathread)

[Rainbow1910]

How about a sub plant for the sub contract?

Fundamentally incompatible with the requirements for reliable and speedy delivery of the submarines to cover RCN requirements. Nothing about setting up a submarine production facility in Canada will be cheap, efficient or reliable. Comparing a random South American backwater's attempts at a two boat domestic build to Canadian long term build strategy is not especially worthwhile. Look at Australia and their Swedish domestic submarine production with the Collins class to see the sort of mess that would be in store for Canada.

 

[PrairieFella]

If all of our projects come to fruition, we will have one of the top 5 combat fleets in NATO. Ahead of the UK, thats insane to think about

The Royal Navy rules the waves...no, the other one.

 

[calculus]

TKMS firing back at the Korean's industrial offsets:

Germany’s TKMS advances $12 billion bid to supply 12 Type 212CD patrol submarines to Canada

Germany’s TKMS advances a $12B investment-based bid for Canada’s Canadian Patrol Submarine Project as Ottawa prepares a 2026 decision.

www.armyrecognition.com

 

[Kirkhill]

Fundamentally incompatible with the requirements for reliable and speedy delivery of the submarines to cover RCN requirements. Nothing about setting up a submarine production facility in Canada will be cheap, efficient or reliable. Comparing a random South American backwater's attempts at a two boat domestic build to Canadian long term build strategy is not especially worthwhile. Look at Australia and their Swedish domestic submarine production with the Collins class to see the sort of mess that would be in store for Canada.

"Poland and South Korea have a significant defense partnership, culminating in a major deal signed in August 2025 for 180 K2 Black Panther tanks, worth approximately $6.5 billion, to modernize Poland's military, with local assembly of the upgraded K2PL variant in Poland to boost domestic production, continuing a broader 2022 agreement for Korean hardware like K2 tanks, FA-50 jets, and artillery. This deal includes logistics, training, technology transfer, and support vehicles, with deliveries spanning 2026-2030. "

K2 Tank Arms Deal: Poland’s Rearmament Kicks into Overdrive

Poland’s $6.7 billion K2 Black Panther deal with South Korea marks a major step in Warsaw’s rearmament and its role on NATO’s eastern flank.

www.geopoliticalmonitor.com

And in Peru....

Peru set to acquire South Korean tanks and APCs - Asian Military Review

In 2025, Peru increased its defence budget by more than 10% and began to modernise its military forces.

www.asianmilitaryreview.com

https://www.korea.net/NewsFocus/Business/view?articleId=283795

There are other examples of South Korea selling both product today and production means for tomorrow.

I think it might be possible to get both the subs on the committed timeline and to develop our own relevant support and development industries in the long term.

 

[Czech_pivo]

"Poland and South Korea have a significant defense partnership, culminating in a major deal signed in August 2025 for 180 K2 Black Panther tanks, worth approximately $6.5 billion, to modernize Poland's military, with local assembly of the upgraded K2PL variant in Poland to boost domestic production, continuing a broader 2022 agreement for Korean hardware like K2 tanks, FA-50 jets, and artillery. This deal includes logistics, training, technology transfer, and support vehicles, with deliveries spanning 2026-2030. "

K2 Tank Arms Deal: Poland’s Rearmament Kicks into Overdrive

Poland’s $6.7 billion K2 Black Panther deal with South Korea marks a major step in Warsaw’s rearmament and its role on NATO’s eastern flank.

www.geopoliticalmonitor.com

And in Peru....

Peru set to acquire South Korean tanks and APCs - Asian Military Review

In 2025, Peru increased its defence budget by more than 10% and began to modernise its military forces.

www.asianmilitaryreview.com

https://www.korea.net/NewsFocus/Business/view?articleId=283795

There are other examples of South Korea selling both product today and production means for tomorrow.

I think it might be possible to get both the subs on the committed timeline and to develop our own relevant support and development industries in the long term.

It would be great to get some sort military equipment production out of this, Lord knows that we need it.

 

[Kirkhill]

With how many countries has south korea signed military production agreements?

AI response.

South Korea has rapidly expanded its defense industrial partnerships and has signed major military production, technology transfer, or joint development agreements with at least 10 to 15 countries in recent years, with a particularly strong push for local production agreements from 2021–2025.
While major arms exports have been made to over 20 states recently, the focus on local production and technology transfer (joint production) has materialized with key partners in Europe, the Middle East, and Asia.

Key Countries with Production/Joint Development Agreements

• Poland: The most significant partner, with massive contracts for K2 tanks, K9 howitzers, and FA-50 aircraft that include technology transfer and local production.
• Egypt: Agreed to co-produce K9 self-propelled howitzers locally.
• United Arab Emirates (UAE): Signed contracts for air defense systems (M-SAM) and joint development of aircraft.
• Saudi Arabia: Signed agreements for air defense systems and joint production/joint ventures for weapons systems.
• Australia: Includes local manufacturing of Hanwha's Redback IFVs (Redback) and K9 howitzers (Huntsman).
• Turkey: Long-term co-development of the T-155 Fırtına (based on K9) and the Altay tank.
• Indonesia: Jointly financing and developing the KF-21 Boramae fighter, plus prior submarine and trainer jet deals.
• Romania: Agreements for local assembly and procurement of K9 howitzers.
• Peru: Agreements for local assembly of KAI trainer aircraft and potential co-production of armored vehicles.
• Norway/Sweden/Estonia/Finland: Various agreements related to localized supply chains for artillery components (modular charge systems) and armored vehicles.

Core Strategy
South Korea's "joint production" strategy is driven by its desire to be a top-four global arms supplier, often offering flexible, faster delivery, and technology transfer (e.g., in Egypt and Poland) that Western suppliers do not. The country is now actively setting up manufacturing facilities in countries like Australia, Egypt, and Poland.

 

[Furniture]

"Poland and South Korea have a significant defense partnership, culminating in a major deal signed in August 2025 for 180 K2 Black Panther tanks, worth approximately $6.5 billion, to modernize Poland's military, with local assembly of the upgraded K2PL variant in Poland to boost domestic production, continuing a broader 2022 agreement for Korean hardware like K2 tanks, FA-50 jets, and artillery. This deal includes logistics, training, technology transfer, and support vehicles, with deliveries spanning 2026-2030. "

K2 Tank Arms Deal: Poland’s Rearmament Kicks into Overdrive

Poland’s $6.7 billion K2 Black Panther deal with South Korea marks a major step in Warsaw’s rearmament and its role on NATO’s eastern flank.

www.geopoliticalmonitor.com

And in Peru....

Peru set to acquire South Korean tanks and APCs - Asian Military Review

In 2025, Peru increased its defence budget by more than 10% and began to modernise its military forces.

www.asianmilitaryreview.com

https://www.korea.net/NewsFocus/Business/view?articleId=283795

There are other examples of South Korea selling both product today and production means for tomorrow.

I think it might be possible to get both the subs on the committed timeline and to develop our own relevant support and development industries in the long term.

The level of complexity between a tank and sub is like comparing Lego planes to Cesenas.

A bad weld on a tank might lead to more repairs more often, a bad weld in a sub means the crew dies and the sub is lost.

If the RoK is offering manufacturing, we should be buying their subs for the promise of tanks, K9s and other RoK armoured vehicles being produced in Canada.

 

[childs56]

The level of complexity between a tank and sub is like comparing Lego planes to Cesenas.

A bad weld on a tank might lead to more repairs more often, a bad weld in a sub means the crew dies and the sub is lost.

That is very interesting statement. QC is required at different levels and standards.. we have many people in this country who are skilled in welding exotic metals in pressure vessel situations.
I have to ask when they make repairs to the pressure hulls of our current and past subs who made those repairs? Selling ourselves short on skills is one thing we do to ourselves limiting our expansion in the public opinion.

If the RoK is offering manufacturing, we should be buying their subs for the promise of tanks, K9s and other RoK armoured vehicles being produced in Canada.

I would also like to see Canada become a service center for any Subs we buy. Not rely on a Yard across the ocean.

 

[Maxman1]

A bad weld on a tank might lead to more repairs more often, a bad weld in a sub means the crew dies and the sub is lost.

 

[Furniture]

That is very interesting statement. QC is required at different levels and standards.. we have many people in this country who are skilled in welding exotic metals in pressure vessel situations.
I have to ask when they make repairs to the pressure hulls of our current and past subs who made those repairs? Selling ourselves short on skills is one thing we do to ourselves limiting our expansion in the public opinion.

I would also like to see Canada become a service center for any Subs we buy. Not rely on a Yard across the ocean.

I never said we didn't have people capable, I said that factories making tanks are vastly different from shipyards making subs.

One is of significant value to Canada and other international partners, the other is of use every 30-40 years when we want new subs...

We have people right now who are capable of fixing subs, and that is what Canada needs after we buy subs. We are never going to be a sub manufacturer to the world, so why pretend we will be?

Our labour is not cheap and we don't already have an established industry. We have an established armoured vehicle industry, so lets capitalize on that.

I would also like to see Canada become a service center for any Subs we buy.

We already are...

 

[Kirkhill]

I never said we didn't have people capable, I said that factories making tanks are vastly different from shipyards making subs.

One is of significant value to Canada and other international partners, the other is of use every 30-40 years when we want new subs...

We have people right now who are capable of fixing subs, and that is what Canada needs after we buy subs. We are never going to be a sub manufacturer to the world, so why pretend we will be?

Our labour is not cheap and we don't already have an established industry. We have an established armoured vehicle industry, so lets capitalize on that.


We already are...

Fine. Get them to build us tank and FA-50 factories instead while they sell us subs for eternity,

I was unaware that Canada's skills were not up to the standard of Peru.

The articles I posted explicitly referenced the construction of submarines in Peru under South Korean supervision.

After all it was Hanwha's competition, STX, subsequently bought by Hyundai, that was engaged by Seaspan to assist them in their self-financed 200 MCAD yard refit for the NSP.

There are a lot of jobs in the military supply chains as well.

 

[HavokFour]

Post in thread 'Liberal (Minority/Majority) Government 2025 - ???'

23 Jan 2026

Hanwha has some big ambitions in Canada outside of the subs.

Hanwha Group says aims to create at least 200,000 jobs in Canada by 2040

South Korean conglomerate Hanwha Group aims to create at least 200,000 jobs in Canada by 2040 through cooperation across various sectors including shipbuilding, the company said, as it seeks to win a fiercely contested submarine contract.

www.reuters.com

• HavokFour

• 

 

[childs56]

Post in thread 'Liberal (Minority/Majority) Government 2025 - ???'

23 Jan 2026

Hanwha has some big ambitions in Canada outside of the subs.

Hanwha Group says aims to create at least 200,000 jobs in Canada by 2040

South Korean conglomerate Hanwha Group aims to create at least 200,000 jobs in Canada by 2040 through cooperation across various sectors including shipbuilding, the company said, as it seeks to win a fiercely contested submarine contract.

www.reuters.com

• HavokFour

• 

I think there is much more then building a few subs and armored vehicles in the works with South Korea at play here. They want a safe secure partner moving forward for energy supply both conventional and Nuclear. They want safe and secure access to minerals we have, they want our tech sectors direct co-operation along with our skill sets we provide.
Canada is one of the few nations with a very talented blue collar work force that is willing to work. It is slowly waning away but if we had a good steady source of investment going forward those skills will remain.
Also this allows the US a back door into our markets and various offerings without directly taking us over. (unless South Korea is looking at lessoning their ties with the US and looking for a more "stable" secure partner commercially wise.

This is a good time to be in business in Canada going forward. Both countries offer trade overall within $6billion Dollars of each other to Canada with Korea actually leading the Canadian Imports. Germany imports $4.7billion US and South Korea $5.37billion US of Canadian Products for 2024. Total trade with Germany is $30.5 billion US and South Korea is $24.5 billion US for 2024.
In my opinion If you compare population wise, business potential and such Korea is the better overall trade partner to move forward with this military deal if they are serious about setting up more shops here in Canada.
That will help us with our industrialization with Europe going forward by expanding our markets we offer and can provide. Not to mention the tech sharing possibility between the three groups.
What that might look like is not only a marine industry but also defence, expansion of our aerospace, nuclear tech, mining and production (foundries) automotive and industrial manufacturing and the list goes on.
What I worry about is Europe getting their underwear in a knot again and boycotting Canadian energy and lumber like they did in the mid 90s into the early 2000s. All the while buying cheap energy from less then desirable players. Those are the risks one takes when selling resources.

Either way I hope we can forge further partnerships with both Countries going forward. The one who does not get the deal will get other spin offs in the near future.

 

[Maxman1]

Post in thread 'Liberal (Minority/Majority) Government 2025 - ???'

23 Jan 2026

Hanwha has some big ambitions in Canada outside of the subs.

Hanwha Group says aims to create at least 200,000 jobs in Canada by 2040

South Korean conglomerate Hanwha Group aims to create at least 200,000 jobs in Canada by 2040 through cooperation across various sectors including shipbuilding, the company said, as it seeks to win a fiercely contested submarine contract.

www.reuters.com

• HavokFour

• 

200,000 jobs is just as baloney as Saab's 10,000 or 14,000 or whatever they're claiming today. But at least they're proposing more than a single factory for a limited run of one product.

 

[Czech_pivo]

200,000 jobs is just as baloney as Saab's 10,000 or 14,000 or whatever they're claiming today. But at least they're proposing more than a single factory for a limited run of one product.

If they are off by a factor of 10X that would still equate to 20k jobs. The SAA number of 12k jobs is more realistically 1,200 jobs, again a factor of 10.

 

[Maxman1]

If they are off by a factor of 10X that would still equate to 20k jobs. The SAA number of 12k jobs is more realistically 1,200 jobs, again a factor of 10.

120 jobs is more likely, based on Brazil's experience with Saab.

 

[Czech_pivo]

120 jobs is more likely, based on Brazil's experience with Saab.

lol, you forgot the other 1,000 jobs at bombardier in jolly's riding.

 

[MilEME09]

Post in thread 'Liberal (Minority/Majority) Government 2025 - ???'

23 Jan 2026

Hanwha has some big ambitions in Canada outside of the subs.

Hanwha Group says aims to create at least 200,000 jobs in Canada by 2040

South Korean conglomerate Hanwha Group aims to create at least 200,000 jobs in Canada by 2040 through cooperation across various sectors including shipbuilding, the company said, as it seeks to win a fiercely contested submarine contract.

www.reuters.com

• HavokFour

• 

200k? Thats nothing to scoff at, that would be huge for the entire economy

 

[Czech_pivo]

200k? Thats nothing to scoff at, that would be huge for the entire economy

Even if it’s 10-15,000, it’s huge.

 

[childs56]

200,000 jobs is just as baloney as Saab's 10,000 or 14,000 or whatever they're claiming today. But at least they're proposing more than a single factory for a limited run of one product.

Not if you start to look at person hours over life cycles of a project(s).
Then if you look at the overall trade deal that could be coming with them. Oil and gas, mining, manufacturing, smelting plants green energy products such as battery plants. The manufacturing of the infrastructure required for new and or increased cooperation.
It is obvious South Korea is looking for international associates to build their brand and economy. Canada has the resources to help them perform that task. How it happens or if it happens is the big question. They have been getting closer to us over the past 10 years which is interesting. I would be curious if they actually are serious. If you look at their commitments elsewhere in the world for defense projects I would have to say they will put their money where their mouth is.