tours

[pbi]

What dictates (infantry battallions specifically) who gets sent overseas in what order? Does command just decide which units to send based on readiness, or manpower, or if theyve just come home from a tour or what ? Ive been somewhat curious about that lately.

Starting in 2006, the Army will be operating from a force generating plan that will see two task forces (battalion sized) and a deployable brigade HQ available for deployment at any given time. These tasks will rotate throughout the Army, but they will be rotated more by sub-unit than by unit, as the plan is to build these units up by "plug and play" from sub-units rather than to send completely formed units. That's the future plan.

Up until then, "when you go" will continue to be decided to a great extent by "when you went". The deployable units of the Army exist in a sort of "queue", depending on things such as how long ago the battalion last deployed, major re-equipment, etc. The Army tries to project this out as far as possibe, on a unit basis,   but there are variables that the Army cannot control. Biggest of these is the freedom of the Govt to decide where it will commit the Army, to do what, and for how long. These Govt decisions are driven by political considerations, both external and domestic. The Army can have all the nice neat little rotation charts that it wants, but when the Govt says "send a task force there, now"--all that goes down the crapper. The last two CLS (Jeffries and Hillier) had a least some success in convincing the Govt that the Army needs some predictability and breathing room, but in the end we are still "firemen".

The current, day-to-day readiness level of a unit has little to do wth its place in the queue, because once a unit is selected to deploy it will be brought up to strength by robbing other units, Areas and Commands, as well as by undergoing a dedicated period of refresher training followed by Theatre/Mission Specific Training (TMST). This process can last from 90 to around 120 days, depending on how much preparation is required. Once a unit is redeployed from theatre, it is not supposed to deploy again for a year.

Cheers

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

About ammo techs, as it was pointed out it very much depends on your posting.  If you're an "Army" ammo tech (in my experience mounting 8+ missions), you're like gold, as there are very few qualified pers available for direct task.  The situation isn't helped by the fact that the AF and Navy are very reluctant to cough up any of their "purple" trades to go overseas with Army units.  Thus, if you're an ammo tech posted to (say) Cold Lake, you're likely staying home for a while...  If you're in Wainwright, well...

I can't expand on PBI's excellent post.  The problem with "managed readiness" is that any new, unanticipated deployment throws a wrench into the works and trashes the entire system.  This is what happened (repeatedly) with ATOF.  I understand that the new system is supposed to cater to this by building in redundancy, but for a small army like ours  I'm not sure it's effective.

 

[Greywolf]

I've never gone on a tour and I would like to know what it's like.  Do you basically work 7 days/week?  Do you mainly do work related to your trade, or are there other taskings e.g. gate duty...?  What happens when your tour ends?  I heard that you get some time off right after a tour (for how long?)  and does that cut into your annual leave, or do you get some other kind of leave? 

 

[Armymedic]

I've never gone on a tour and I would like to know what it's like. Do you basically work 7 days/week? Do you mainly do work related to your trade, or are there other taskings e.g. gate duty...? 

Generally, you are on duty from the moment your step off the plane until the moment you step back on. Dependant on your task/trade, you could work straight days, split days or shift work. You may get a "Sunday Routine" which is basically a day of rest, which allows you to sleep in and/or get some of those personal things done. but thats not a rule. As it stands now ISAF in Kabul doesn't have as many pers as they should, so time off is a premium. Also due to leave, secondary duties, and all the other military stuff that goes on, sections are usually always one or two people understrength, which means more work for everyone else.

Medical staff always have a team on standby for the Quick reaction force which is on 5-15 mins NTM for any and all emergencies.
Other trades have and do similar things, but I'll leave that to them...

What happens when your tour ends? I heard that you get some time off right after a tour (for how long?) and does that cut into your annual leave, or do you get some other kind of leave?

You get 5 days disembarkation before you  leave, 7 days embarkation upon your return from a 6 month mission. You are also entitled to 2.5 days leave per deployment months home leave (HLTA) while on tour (usually about 16 days plus travel time). Annual leave still has to be taken so usually it is planned pre or post tour. It is much easier to have permission to accumulate ann leave if you are going on tour.

 

[armyrules]

Great question Greywolf I was wondering the same thing.

 

[Ammogod]

Sorry Teddy your wrong all Ammo techs are army trades, we have a few posting to air bases ( 1 in Winnipeg, 1 in Bagagetville,) and a few Navy bases( 1 in Halafax, 1 in Esquimalt)The rest are army bases or Ammo Depots or riding a desk in Ottawa. we do "plug and play" for tours out of the depots.

 

[Marty]

Ive got another question .....what if any are the guidlines for sending someone home due to special circumstances ? Wife sick , birth of a child , death in the family .......that sort of thing? As well if you do get sent home for something , do you end up going back on tour ?

 

[Padraig OCinnead]

Your chain of command will do all they can to get you home during circumstances which they feel need attending to at home. In '97 while overseas my kid brother died and within 36 hours I was home. Depending on the reasons for repat you will most likely be sent back as I was. Going back on tour after all is taken care of?  I was back on tour after spending a little under a week at home. Wife sick? Depends how bad. Birth of a child. Depends again on extenuating circumstances but odds are they will not have sent you over in the first place if at all avoidable. If while at home you feel that you need more time, the Padre can authorize extended time to continue getting things resolved. However your CO can have you back once the minimum time is up if operational requirements dictate.

In the end there is much that will be done in your favour to ensure that things are taken care.

 

[civvy3840]

I think I heard on this site or from someone else that you could only do 1 tour a year is this true. Does that include training courses (ex...SQ). Why only 1 a year?


thanks

Jack

 

[George Wallace]

"Quality of Life" issues.  Eventually, people will "burn out".

GW

 

[Armymedic]

Canforgen on Perstempo is the key.

Overseas deployments longer then 60 days put you onto a 12 month deployment hold for your next overseas deployment. You are also not supposed to be posted or placed on any career course 60 days upon return as well....

But its all just a policy, whether people follow it or not, is the gov'ts fault.

 

[aesop081]

...... You are also not supposed to be posted or placed on any career course 60 days upon return as well....

I know what you mean but........like it ever happens that way !

 

[civvy3840]

I was only asking this because my father was in for 24 years but went on 28+ tours and I was just wondering if I was getting false information.

thanks

Jack

 

[civvy3840]

Another question: are tours optional or do they tell you were to go?

thanks

Jack

 

[MikeM]

28? Holy shit..

That's a lot. What trade was he?

 

[Sundborg]

Another question: are tours optional or do they tell you were to go?

thanks

Jack

If you are with the unit that is supposed to go, you're going.  Unless you have some kind of excuse like a medical or something.

 

[pbi]

I was only asking this because my father was in for 24 years but went on 28+ tours and I was just wondering if I was getting false information.

thanks

Jack

28? That's interesting. Who was he with, and when? What was the reason he had to do so many tours?

Cheers

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

Ammogod:  I'll (of course) stand corrected.  What I was referring to (and should have said) was "Army-controlled".  There aren't many of you guys around in any event!

Cheers,

TR

 

[Armymedic]

Every circumstance is different. For things with a date, like child birth, you can plan your leave around it and the chain can adjust your leave within reason.

As for a compassionate leave or repatration, the chain involves the Padres and MO to assist in getting you home. If its a short term thing, they usually try to get you back to theater if there is enough time left on the tour. 30 days is a majic number. Max time out of theater, less time left and you'll stay home, etc.

 

[dglad]

Actually, the terms under which compassionate leave can be granted are quite restrictive, and generally only involve a death or traumatic illness or injury to a family member.  This is documented in a CANFORGEN.  As was pointed out, other, more happy events--such as the birth of a child--would have to be accommodated using mission leave.