Transgender in the CF (merged)

[ModlrMike]

Which begs the question, if someone truly and fully believes they are the opposite gender inside their current body, why not make the complete transition? Then they can fully and completely live life as the other gender, and no one would even know.

Because the CF doesn't fund SRS anymore?

 

[PuckChaser]

Because the CF doesn't fund SRS anymore?

I'm not talking specifically about serving members, more the general populace.

 

[Gunshark]

If ShoddyGunner could return to clarify the questions asked in this thread, it would be helpful to everyone here trying to understand. We don't want to go down the ignorant path.

 

[PMedMoe]

Because the CF doesn't fund SRS anymore?

AFAIK, they do but on a case by case basis. Things may have changed in the last few years though...

IIRC, people are put on SPHL and closely monitored by medical pers thoughout the process.

 

[macniven]

Which begs the question, if someone truly and fully believes they are the opposite gender inside their current body, why not make the complete transition? Then they can fully and completely live life as the other gender, and no one would even know.

Each surgery can be quite expensive. Top surgery for a ftm(female-to-male) is a little under 10 thousand. Bottom surgery(which is multiples surgeries) can be anywhere from 20 thousand up. Then there are hotel fees if you have to go to a different city, time off work, recovery, etc.

Also, for some, having a penis isn't a necessity in what makes them feel like a man. Of course that's not the case for all, but it definitely the case for some.

For others, they might want bottom surgery, but may feel that the medical world is not advanced enough yet to create a natural looking penis.

It varies for many as to why they wouldn't complete every surgery. Bottom line, it's not an easy feat.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Macmar that's what I found too when I've read up on it. Money is always a major factor but someone like Bruce Jenner who has undergone extensive cosmetic surgery, will probably never get a physical sex change because they just don't want to.

Some people  (like me) think if someone wants to be identified as female then they should get the surgery. Other people believe they can decide for themselves how to define male and female.

 

[PuckChaser]

Its also covered under OHIP, and although there are long waits (which are being worked on), the individual is only paying for incidentals. Seems like something all these LBGTQ etc alliances could be helping people out with the cost of.

 

[CountDC]

I can't guarantee there won't be discrimination but we have processes in place to deal with those. With all the focus of Op Honour I hope that the few dinosaurs that remain would be wise enough to grow up or at least keep their opinion silent.

Just because an opinion differs doesn't make it any less valid. Remember those who gave their ALL to guarantee freedom of speech.

Couldn't resist.

 

[PuckChaser]

Couldn't resist.

I don't think anyone here is asking anything that's discrimatory or could be construed as harassment. What people are looking for, is information to help better understand people who have to go through a very tough process.

 

[mariomike]

What people are looking for, is information to help better understand people who have to go through a very tough process.

I found this informative,

Tips for Allies of Transgender People
http://www.glaad.org/transgender/allies

"The following are tips that can be used as you move toward becoming a better ally to transgender people."

 

[Jarnhamar]

Relevant to the discussion.

https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2016/02/17/man-undresses-in-front-of-girls-in-seattle-locker-room-cites-gender-identity-regulation/

A young man undressed twice last week in front of young girls in the women’s locker room at Seattle’s Evan’s Pool facility and police were not called due to confusion over Washington State’s new Gender Identity regulations. The rules allow any male to enter women and girl’s locker rooms, showers, restrooms, saunas, etc. by invoking his belief in “Gender Identity”, a psychological form of reproductive sex unrelated to actual biological sex. Males who enter such facilities without proclaiming a personal belief in psychological sex are subject to arrest under sex crime statutes.

The man in question twice reportedly entered the female changing facility and observed the women and girls in various stages of undress, and removed his own clothes in front of them.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

That can't happen in Utopia, can it??

 

[mariomike]

Relevant to the discussion.

"A young man undressed twice last week in front of young girls in the women’s locker room at Seattle’s Evan’s Pool facility and police were not called due to confusion over Washington State’s new Gender Identity regulations."

Maybe this is too?

Transgender employment,

"...she is New York City's first and only transgender firefighter. The FDNY employs more than 10,400, only 44 of whom are women, and Guinan is the only member who has served the department as both a man and a woman."
http://www.villagevoice.com/news/new-yorks-bravest-is-trans-fdny-firefighter-brooke-guinan-6722705

 

[Nudibranch]

So, there is the bottom line.  Identifies as a male, but hasn't completed the whole change.  Male top half, female bottom half.

Not sure how that equals 'transition complete'.

Bottom surgery MtF generally gets ok results. FtM, much less so.
Apart from the cost, metoidioplasty aesthetically can give a less than satisfactory result (you can look up pictures on several medical surgery sites that show their results - and those would be what the clinics posting consider their successes), and phalloplasty has issues with complications, graft area scars and tactile sensation. It's not unusual for a FtM TG individual to finish transition without bottom surgery for those reasons, not for financial ones.

 

[Andraste]

So, there is the bottom line.  Identifies as a male, but hasn't completed the whole change.  Male top half, female bottom half.

Not sure how that equals 'transition complete'.

Hello,

This is my first post on this site and I believe I can speak with some expertise on the subject as I am a serving trans woman.  Now I don't normally call myself a trans woman as I consider myself a woman because that is my gender.  I have an "F" not a "M" on my military ID, provincial driver license and passport (green and blue).  I live my life as a woman having transitioned over a year ago. I dress as a woman, style my hair as a woman, wear make-up (a necessary evil given my ugly mug  ).  However, here is the rub, I have not sought nor will I ever seek any altering surgeries or hormone replacement therapy (HRT).  Specifically, my transition is complete in the sense I have come as far as I require to be a woman.  There is no checklist or specific requirements dictated by others to be considered the gender you identify. Legally I am a woman but physiologically and genetically I am a man . . . confused yet?

Most who have responded to this post are confusing concepts of binary gender description which makes you male or female so long as you have checkmarks in all the right boxes on the list.  That is not the case.  Perhaps some basic definitions might help clarify:

Transgender: Is an umbrella term for all who experience some form of gender dysphoria. This covers your classic cross dresser who just likes to dress up in various articles of the target gender from time to time to those who have a need to align themselves with the target gender and, all points in between (e.g., gender fluid, gender questioning, etc.)

Transsexual: Is a person who knows they were born as the wrong gender and seeks to align themselves (in whatever way they see fit) to live as the target gender.  I am a transsexual in that I was born male but I view myself as woman. This has nothing to do with what is between my legs and everything to do with a sense of self. 

Genetic sex: This is predetermined by your chromosomes in which you are either "xy" (male) or "xx" (female).  Yes there are variations such as "xxy" "xxx" but, for simplicity I went with the most common. I am genetically male in that no science to date can change that.  However, while my genetics are predetermined at conception, that does not mean my gender identity is also fixed and cannot vary.

Physiological sex: This is linked to genetic sex in that your chromosomes and hormones (testosterone and estrogen) will determine what form your body takes on.  If you are born genetically male, testosterone is the predominant sex hormone and you will develop male primary and secondary sexual characteristics.  Your body mass will tend to be larger, you facial features will be more masculine and fat to muscle content will be more masculine.  Yes, some men can appear more feminine (slighter build) but they are still male.

Transsexuals can suffer various levels of dyshoria when it comes to their physiological appearance and can take various avenues to correct that.  For example gender reassignment surgery (GRS), breast augmentation/removal, hormone replacement therapy, female facial feminization surgery (male to female).  However, this is not a requirement for transition as each has their own level of dysphoria and will seek various avenues to attain a comfort level.  In my own case, I am happy with my body as it is.  Yes, I am genetically and physiologically male but that is all superficial and I have no need to alter my body via surgery or hormones.  Fortunately, I have a slighter frame than your average male and my features are finer but, "the kid isn't pretty but she accepts that" [.  My dysphoria is body and facial hair (thanks Northern European ancestors)  so I have taken steps to have my beard and body hair lasered from my body. 

You also need to account that the surgeries you are talking about are very invasive (Google GRS and you will find detailed description with video should you doubt my voracity  ) and depending on the person's health and age can be quite dangerous. HRT is nothing to be messed with either as swapping your hormones can do damage to your body again depending on age.  So some trans folks may not be able to seek GRS, FFS, BA or HRT due to health issues, personal choice or financial requirements.  While GRS is covered under most Provincial health care - the remaining surgeries can run in the tens of thousands.  I personally am in several thousand just for hair removal (not covered by the military or the health care system).  So what many term "full transition" here, is sometimes not desired or not possible (medically or financially). 

Gender Identity: The last two concepts were all about appearances (i.e., how the person appears to the world) and while dysphoria may require a trans person to correct various aspects of their physiology it is "gender identity" which drives this.  This is how the person perceives themselves.  I was born male but identify as a woman . . . why is that?  I wish I could tell you.  Again this has nothing to do with what is between my legs and everything to do with how I see myself.  I don't look in the mirror and see a guy, I see a woman.  No, not physiologically . . . but still a woman.  Gender identity tends to manifest itself quite early but there are generational effects.  I knew I was not quite wired like the other boys when I was five but that decades ago in small town Canada and we did not speak of such things so I socialized boy, suppressed, joined the military (combat arms, SOFCOM and now support) to live an uber-masculine life and prove I was all guy.  Still I knew there was something wrong and when things went very dark (and I mean dark) three years ago after decades of denial/suppression, I realized I had to transition or cease to exist . . . that is how bad it can get folks.  So I transitioned so I can align my sense of self with my gender identity (woman) and have never looked back.  My body does not define who I am only how people see me (trans) . . . my sense of self defines who I am (woman).

Now the million dollar question . . . where do I go pee and shower?  Well for my daily business I use the women's restroom because folks . . . I am just answering nature's call and that is done in the privacy of a stall.  Showering is a different thing as I am cognizant that I am physiologically male and that would make folks uncomfortable (myself included). Surprisingly, men were more upset about me using the male change rooms . . . go figure.  However an accord was reached and sometimes that is what it takes, education, compromise and logic. 

A few myths I want to put to rest:

(1) Being trans is not a mental illness.  It used to be referred to as Gender Identity Disorder (GID) and was in the DSM IV but has since been removed by mental health professionals.  Yes, if you come out as trans in the military you will need to go see the medical folks and mental health services.  This is to ensure you get a consult with a therapist who specializes in "gender identity issues" to work with you and bring order to what is chaos on a grand scale and is used to assign a TCAT should you decided HRT and surgery is your avenue. Yes, trans folks tend to have higher rates of suicide and depression but it is not caused directly by being trans but second order effects.  Imagine being someone you are not for most of your adult life, hiding in the shadows because people think who you are is wrong, perverted, weird, then finally accepting that in yourself, coming out only to potentially loose family, friends, livelihood . . . that will take it's toll on anyone.  I reached a very dark point myself, got the help I needed and glad to report I am "five by five" these days.  That is not the same realty for many trans folks though. 

(2) Gender identity and sexual orientation is not always linked: Just because someone identifies as the other gender does not mean their sexual orientation is also different.  Folks, I am married to wonderful woman who supports me and has gone through this transition with me.  Specifically, I still like the ladies and always will . . . my gender identity did not change that.

(3) Being trans in the CAF will get you special privileges not given to non-trans folks.  NOT TRUE!  I have received no special privileges and must adhere to all the same regulations as any other CAF member.  What I expect as a CAF member (trans or not) is to be treated with decency and dignity and not be harassed, made fun of, looked down upon or the butt of jokes.

A bit wordy I know but I figured this could provide a trans 101 for those who were confused.  Happy to elaborate if you like.  [

Cheers

 

[Kat Stevens]

Hello,

This is my first post on this site and I believe I can speak with some expertise on the subject as I am a serving trans woman.  Now I don't normally call myself a trans woman as I refer to consider myself a woman because that is my gender.  I have an "F" not a "M" on my military ID, provincial driver license and passport (green and blue).  I live my life as a woman having transitioned over a year ago.  However, here is the rub, I have not sought nor will I ever any altering surgeries or hormone replacement therapy (HRT). Legally I am a woman but physiologically and genetically I am a man . . . confused yet? Specifically, my transition is complete in the sense I have come as far as I require to be a woman.  There is not checklist or specific requirements dictated by others to be considered the gender you identify./

  SNIPPED FOR SPACE ONLY, NOT CONTENT

/A bit wordy I know but I figured this could provide a trans 101 for those who were confused.  Happy to elaborate if you like.  [

Cheers

First of all, awesome, informative post, without allowing emotion and personal feelings to muddy the facts, kudos. Speaking only for my own time in uniform, as outdated as that is, I never cared one iota where anyone wanted to take a dump, that particular moment is between you and whatever God you pray to to get you through it.  As for shower time, if anyone of any "other" alignment than my own felt the need to be checking me out, first of all thanks, I'm flattered, and secondly they set the bar pretty low, standards wise.  For myself, the only problem(s) I have are with the ability for some to game the system, and that others are potentially put to unreasonable inconvenience to accommodate a very small, so far, minority.  I remember when women first started showing up in my unit. On exercise in Wainwright we had integrated shack, which meant in those days crappy old quonset H huts.  Every night, an hour long block was set aside in the communal showers for the two women in a building that housed 120+ pers. 12 shower heads out of commission for one hour every night doesn't sound like much, but it sure was for the other 118 people in the place.  "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, except in the CAF".  I strayed off the track here a bit, but thank you again for the informative post.

 

[GAP]

Hello,

This is my first post on this site and I believe I can speak with some expertise on the subject as I am a serving trans woman.  Now I don't normally call myself a trans woman as I refer to consider myself a woman because that is my gender.  I have an "F" not a "M" on my military ID, provincial driver license and passport (green and blue).  I live my life as a woman having transitioned over a year ago.  However, here is the rub, I have not sought nor will I ever any altering surgeries or hormone replacement therapy (HRT).  Specifically, my transition is complete in the sense I have come as far as I require to be a woman.  There is not checklist or specific requirements dictated by others to be considered the gender you identify. Legally I am a woman but physiologically and genetically I am a man . . . confused yet?

Snipped.....

I agree,  awesome, informative post. Thank you

 

[The Bread Guy]

First of all, awesome, informative post, without allowing emotion and personal feelings to muddy the facts, kudos.

What he said - thanks for sharing information about a pretty personal topic.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Hello,

This is my first post on this site and I believe I can speak with some expertise on the subject as I am a serving trans woman.  Now I don't normally call myself a trans woman as I consider myself a woman because that is my gender.  I have an "F" not a "M" on my military ID, provincial driver license and passport (green and blue).  I live my life as a woman having transitioned over a year ago. I dress as a woman, style my hair as a woman, wear make-up (a necessary evil given my ugly mug  ).  However, here is the rub, I have not sought nor will I ever seek any altering surgeries or hormone replacement therapy (HRT).  Specifically, my transition is complete in the sense I have come as far as I require to be a woman.

Hi Andraste ,

Thanks for taking the time to post all of that. It's pretty informative. It would be great to hear more from transgender CF members, hopefully posts like yours will move them to post and contribute.

Do you mind me bouncing some trans and gender related questions off you? Specifically about fitness?
In another thread we're discussing the new new force test and going back to a gender and age based point system.
[ http://army.ca/forums/threads/114687/post-1430489/topicseen.html#new ]

Correct me if I am wrong but I'm guessing you check F in the gender box on the test.  The CAF one again holds women to a lower fitness standard than men. We're also discussing whether PER points should be added as an incentive to keep fit.
Presuming you checked off F in the FORCE test, do you as someone born male but transitioned to womanhood feel that it is fair that you would be competing for PER points and promotions against other women who were physically born woman?

 

[ModlrMike]

The CAF one again holds women to a lower fitness standard than men.

Clearly you missed the part where everyone has to do the same tasks to the same standard.