Trudeau Popularity - or not (various polling, etc.)

[brihard]

@YZT580 “Currently missing from the equation. Hence all the UBER drivers with accents etc. There is a need to level the playing field. Stop discrimination against Cdn. borne European descended kids and give them equal opportunities. Starting perhaps with parents pushing them into taking that first job”

Anecdotal on my part: I had to deal with my son who was trying to be Peter Pan and never grow up. COVID didn’t help but it took me cutting off various financial incentives for him to go get that first job. Cut off his cell phone, turned off the internet at home during the day between work hours, stopped driving him around and stopped paying for his extra curriculars. He had no issues finding an entry level job in the service industry despite being male and caucasian.

Making money, even minimum wage money, that he could do with as he pleased gave him a bit more independence and motivation to work. (My issue now is what he’s spending his money on and lack of saving said money but that is another story lol)

Kid needs some FTSE.

 

[IKnowNothing]

@YZT580 “Currently missing from the equation. Hence all the UBER drivers with accents etc. There is a need to level the playing field. Stop discrimination against Cdn. borne European descended kids and give them equal opportunities. Starting perhaps with parents pushing them into taking that first job”

Anecdotal on my part: I had to deal with my son who was trying to be Peter Pan and never grow up. COVID didn’t help but it took me cutting off various financial incentives for him to go get that first job. Cut off his cell phone, turned off the internet at home during the day between work hours, stopped driving him around and stopped paying for his extra curriculars. He had no issues finding an entry level job in the service industry despite being male and caucasian.

Making money, even minimum wage money, that he could do with as he pleased gave him a bit more independence and motivation to work. (My issue now is what he’s spending his money on and lack of saving said money but that is another story lol)

We've got a couple years, but wife and I are struggling to gameplan around this without a farm/acreage. When you start contributing at 5 by 12 you're shopping your skills to neighbours for pocket money and counting down the days until you're old enough to officially monetize your time

 

[Remius]

Kid needs some FTSE.

Being considered…

At least he has his nose in his schooling.

 

[Kirkhill]

Interesting article in the Globe and Mail from Gary Mason. I have long considered him, together with Lawrence Martin and Campbell Clark, to have been a mouthpiece for the Liberal Party of Canada.

Opinion: Mr. Trudeau isn’t going anywhere – he made sure of that long ago

The changes the Liberal Leader made to his party’s infrastructure when he took power have cemented the position he’s in now

www.theglobeandmail.com

At the same time Mr. Trudeau was assuming the helm of the Liberal Party in 2013, he was also taking control of the party apparatus, including the now-defunct national executive, which was replaced as the governing organization of the party by a national board. While this move might have looked to many like a change in name only, it was far from just that.

An acquaintance, who is a former senior member of the Liberal Party and who previously held senior positions in Liberal governments in the 1990s and 2000s, pointed out to me that many of the changes Mr. Trudeau and his advisers made to the party’s constitution have allowed him to be more than sanguine about a potential uprising undermining his leadership.

The makeup of the national board has changed, for instance. The new configuration effectively gives greater power and control to the Leader. Provincial wings no longer have the clout they once exerted. Again, the infrastructure has been usurped by Mr. Trudeau and the coterie of true power brokers around him.

One of the first things Mr. Trudeau’s forces did after seizing control of the party was to get rid of the previous leadership review provisions, making it so that a review could only be held after an election loss. Prior to that, one could be brought forward at any scheduled national convention of the party.

Mr. Trudeau changed the nature of membership of the party, promoting non-paying “supporters” over card-carrying members. This was supposed to reflect the post-partisan times we live in, apparently. But again, a “supporter” does not have the same influence that the former, paid-in-full Liberal Party member once did. Instead, the Liberals became a cult of personality.

After doing this, Mr. Trudeau’s grip over the national Liberal Party office, board members and regional entities was complete – making any attempt to undermine his leadership all but impossible.

“There is no Liberal Party beyond the name and office – he has killed it,” my friend told me in an email. (I’ve agreed not to name him because of fears he has of potential reprisals for his comments.) “There are no soldiers to fight the next election war. His unchecked power over the party, power some of his predecessors would have liked to have had in full measure (think Trudeau père), has hollowed out the party.”

There is one other thing Mr. Trudeau made sure didn’t happen under his watch: He made certain he wasn’t held more accountable to his caucus than he needed to be. In other words, he wanted no part of the Reform Act, which allows MPs to review and remove their party leader.

The act was designed by Conservative MP Michael Chong and adopted by Parliament in 2015. Under the act, if 20 per cent of a caucus signs a petition calling for a leadership review, a vote is triggered. If a majority of the party’s MPs then vote against the leader, the leader is forced to step down. The Conservatives are the only party that adopted the act. They used it to oust Erin O’Toole as leader in 2022.

Of course, there wasn’t much outcry at the time over the changes Mr. Trudeau brought in to insulate himself from any potential rebellion. He brought the party back from oblivion and led it to three election wins in a row. When that’s happening, no one cares much about changes made to the party constitution years earlier, even if they could be used by the leader to help keep his job in the face of internal opposition.

And yet that very same party constitution is now under a microscope when considering, for example, Chinese interference in elections, Han Dong and Chinese students being bullied and bussed to support Liberal candidates.

 

[YZT580]

Out of curiosity, what’s the basis for your claim that white Canadian-born kids are being discriminated against in the entry level job sector? Because in the next line you suggest it’s a matter of parents not pushing them to take that first job. I live in a pretty diverse suburb in a pretty diverse city, and I see plenty of white kids working entry level retail and food service locally. I’ll buy there being a lack of interest; I’d need to be convinced of a discriminatory lack of interest. And why are you making the claim applicable just to white Canadian borne kids? If the issue is abuse of TFWs by entry level employers, that logic would apply to all kids born in Canada, no?

sorry about that. I was not referring to entry level with that statement although it did appear so. We have a son who has been passed over three times now for different positions because of either being the wrong sex or the wrong colour even though the manager of the division he was applying to wanted him in those positions, a daughter who didn't qualify for a bursary because the only ones available were designated indigenous, a neighbour's son who was passed over when applying for a firefighting position because the only positions available were designated either female or coloured. My objection is to the word designated in all cases. That is total discrimination. We were burdened with an entire course of trainees who fit the selection criteria but totally lacked ability: ct'd them all at a cost of 6 months very valuable training time and burnt out several monitors whilst doing so.

 

[lenaitch]

This is where the extended families part of my post come in.

I sort of assumed that. Maybe there should be some kind of 'immediate family means test' before public money is accessed, but does it lay the burden at the feet of parents - and perhaps beyond - for life?

I had a work colleague who was coming up to retirement but their single-parent daughter got into the drugs and they ended up formally adopting their grandchild, in their 50s. I doubt it was the retirement they envisioned.

 

[dimsum]

sorry about that. I was not referring to entry level with that statement although it did appear so. We have a son who has been passed over three times now for different positions because of either being the wrong sex or the wrong colour even though the manager of the division he was applying to wanted him in those positions, a daughter who didn't qualify for a bursary because the only ones available were designated indigenous, a neighbour's son who was passed over when applying for a firefighting position because the only positions available were designated either female or coloured. My objection is to the word designated in all cases. That is total discrimination. We were burdened with an entire course of trainees who fit the selection criteria but totally lacked ability: ct'd them all at a cost of 6 months very valuable training time and burnt out several monitors whilst doing so.

I’ll preface that I swear that I (as a visible minority male) am saying the following in good faith. My read of your situations leads me to a couple of points/questions:

1. Is your son in a private company or in the public sector? Were there other candidates that, taking sex/ethnicity aside, would have been more competitive than him, despite what his division manager thinks? To put it bluntly, how do you know your son didn’t get that job because of sex/ethnicity rather than other competitive factors? I’ve been involved in hiring govt folks and it is surprisingly clinical - “I want X in that job” has to be justified.
2. Bursaries are specific to the school and they can create whatever criteria suits them. “Affirmative action” might sound unfair but (depending on where this is) someone living on Reserve may have other reasons why they can’t afford tuition and require that bursary, or don’t have the grades that would normally be the bursary cut-off. Not specific to Indigenous, but the book Supercommunicators has a section on why women and African-Americans (those were the studies cited) typically don’t do well in SATs and STEM fields in college compared to Caucasian men. The findings weren’t that they were dumber, but that they have an inherent “imposter syndrome” that they don’t belong in STEM or college. The study found that if the exact same exam was prefaced with “this will not affect your grade” to the experiment group, their average marks went up by a statistically significant amount.
3. Re: the firefighting job, what percentage of those were designated women or visible-minority? And why is that percentage set that way? I don’t know where you are so I can’t presume what percentage of your firefighting force would be women or POC otherwise.
4. For the course, do you have a pre-selection where you take the folks who fit the selection criteria and then test them to see if they can cut it? More specifically, when in the process did you realize they lacked ability - was it prior to course or during the course?

 

[Kirkhill]

I’ll preface that I swear that I (as a visible minority male) am saying the following in good faith. My read of your situations leads me to a couple of points/questions:

1. Is your son in a private company or in the public sector? Were there other candidates that, taking sex/ethnicity aside, would have been more competitive than him, despite what his division manager thinks? To put it bluntly, how do you know your son didn’t get that job because of sex/ethnicity rather than other competitive factors? I’ve been involved in hiring govt folks and it is surprisingly clinical - “I want X in that job” has to be justified.
2. Bursaries are specific to the school and they can create whatever criteria suits them. “Affirmative action” might sound unfair but (depending on where this is) someone living on Reserve may have other reasons why they can’t afford tuition and require that bursary, or don’t have the grades that would normally be the bursary cut-off. Not specific to Indigenous, but the book Supercommunicators has a section on why women and African-Americans (those were the studies cited) typically don’t do well in SATs and STEM fields in college compared to Caucasian men. The findings weren’t that they were dumber, but that they have an inherent “imposter syndrome” that they don’t belong in STEM or college. The study found that if the exact same exam was prefaced with “this will not affect your grade” to the experiment group, their average marks went up by a statistically significant amount.
3. Re: the firefighting job, what percentage of those were designated women or visible-minority? And why is that percentage set that way? I don’t know where you are so I can’t presume what percentage of your firefighting force would be women or POC otherwise.
4. For the course, do you have a pre-selection where you take the folks who fit the selection criteria and then test them to see if they can cut it? More specifically, when in the process did you realize they lacked ability - was it prior to course or during the course?

Taking your good faith in good faith I will counter that regardless of the well meaning intentions behind discrimination, constantly being on the losing end is not likely to generate a warm and fuzzy feeling on the part of those feeling disadvantaged.

DEI is sold in large part on the grounds of keeping minorities on the friendly side of the institutions. Minorities of 1%, 2%, 4%, 10%.

Do you really want to trade a bunch of disgruntled but disunited minorites for a much larger but united minority that may verge on a plurality if not a majority?

Martin Luther King is still right. Discrimination is still wrong.

 

[Brad Sallows]

If there are not really any thumbs on scales, there shouldn't really be any public objections to (apparently un-needed) measures to prevent thumbs on scales.

 

[Good2Golf]

Interesting article in the Globe and Mail from Gary Mason. I have long considered him, together with Lawrence Martin and Campbell Clark, to have been a mouthpiece for the Liberal Party of Canada.

Opinion: Mr. Trudeau isn’t going anywhere – he made sure of that long ago

The changes the Liberal Leader made to his party’s infrastructure when he took power have cemented the position he’s in now

www.theglobeandmail.com

And yet that very same party constitution is now under a microscope when considering, for example, Chinese interference in elections, Han Dong and Chinese students being bullied and bussed to support Liberal candidates.

This part is the Trudeau Cult of Personality money shot…

Mr. Trudeau changed the nature of membership of the party, promoting non-paying “supporters” over card-carrying members. This was supposed to reflect the post-partisan times we live in, apparently. But again, a “supporter” does not have the same influence that the former, paid-in-full Liberal Party member once did. Instead, the Liberals became a cult of personality.

…aka. Hypothetically, Chinese foreign nationals in the form of international students who can be bussed around to vote in whichever Liberal riding vote Fils Trudeau wants them to…

 

[YZT580]

I’ll preface that I swear that I (as a visible minority male) am saying the following in good faith. My read of your situations leads me to a couple of points/questions:

1. Is your son in a private company or in the public sector? Were there other candidates that, taking sex/ethnicity aside, would have been more competitive than him, despite what his division manager thinks? To put it bluntly, how do you know your son didn’t get that job because of sex/ethnicity rather than other competitive factors? I’ve been involved in hiring govt folks and it is surprisingly clinical - “I want X in that job” has to be justified.
2. Bursaries are specific to the school and they can create whatever criteria suits them. “Affirmative action” might sound unfair but (depending on where this is) someone living on Reserve may have other reasons why they can’t afford tuition and require that bursary, or don’t have the grades that would normally be the bursary cut-off. Not specific to Indigenous, but the book Supercommunicators has a section on why women and African-Americans (those were the studies cited) typically don’t do well in SATs and STEM fields in college compared to Caucasian men. The findings weren’t that they were dumber, but that they have an inherent “imposter syndrome” that they don’t belong in STEM or college. The study found that if the exact same exam was prefaced with “this will not affect your grade” to the experiment group, their average marks went up by a statistically significant amount.
3. Re: the firefighting job, what percentage of those were designated women or visible-minority? And why is that percentage set that way? I don’t know where you are so I can’t presume what percentage of your firefighting force would be women or POC otherwise.
4. For the course, do you have a pre-selection where you take the folks who fit the selection criteria and then test them to see if they can cut it? More specifically, when in the process did you realize they lacked ability - was it prior to course or during the course?

1. public service. 2. no funding was available for other than indigenous. The university wanted to be seen as being woke I suppose. 3. firefighters required 20% non-white. They are still several short of their requirements after 8 years as they haven't been able to get their quota people to stay with it. Lol. But the whole point is quotas, designated funding, all discriminate and the people they discriminate against the most are the very ones they are supposed to help. Their fellow workers frown upon them because they figure (right or wrong) that the only reason they have the position is because they are coloured, native, female, or whatever the flavour of the week may be). I have heard the arguments that there are justifiable reasons for discrimination but those who say this aren't dealing with the blowback. I will take a pink, polkadotted one legged whatever to work beside me if it can do the job and most, not all, feel the same way. The Eve of Destruction says it better than I ever could: "A handful of senators can't pass legislation it marches alone, won't bring integration when human respect is disintegratin'. Inequality produces hostility.

 

[brihard]

2. no funding was available for other than indigenous. The university wanted to be seen as being woke I suppose.

Many university bursaries are funded via endowment from a private donor who can attach conditions to the funded bursary. I wouldn’t be surprised if the bursary in question was paid for by a donation from someone specifically saying it was to be awarded to an indigenous student. You’ll easily find something similar for all kinds of identifiable groups.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

If I'm stuck in a burning building, having a heart attack on the street or being accosted in a bar, I want the most qualified person,, hired on merit alone to attend to me.
I don't care what colour or ethnicity they are, but I want the person that was hired above everyone else, based on how they perform, not how they look.
DEI is a farce that will do nothing but degrade the service that company provides. If a non white wants the job, they should compete like everyone else.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Our friend in California had their child turned down from a university as they already had their "quota" of Asian students, except she is of Indian heritage, but born in the US. It's insane.

 

[QV]

Our friend in California had their child turned down from a university as they already had their "quota" of Asian students, except she is of Indian heritage, but born in the US. It's insane.

Discrimination of any kind is wrong.

 

[daftandbarmy]

A couple of weeks old but interesting nonetheless...

New Nanos data: More key ridings to Justin Trudeau are under threat​

After a stunning Toronto byelection victory by the Conservatives, CTV News' Michael Stittle and pollster Nik Nanos look at what other ridings across the country -- currently in Liberal hands -- might be taken away by Pierre Poiliever's party if an election were held today. Nik and host Michael Stittle also discuss how Canadians are feeling right now about their economic future, and should things turn brighter before the next election, what that could mean politically for Justin Trudeau's leadership.

 

[Good2Golf]

A couple of weeks old but interesting nonetheless...

New Nanos data: More key ridings to Justin Trudeau are under threat​

After a stunning Toronto byelection victory by the Conservatives, CTV News' Michael Stittle and pollster Nik Nanos look at what other ridings across the country -- currently in Liberal hands -- might be taken away by Pierre Poiliever's party if an election were held today. Nik and host Michael Stittle also discuss how Canadians are feeling right now about their economic future, and should things turn brighter before the next election, what that could mean politically for Justin Trudeau's leadership.

From the same guy who last week suggested that Pierre Poilievre could be on a path to implode…

 

[YZT580]

Many university bursaries are funded via endowment from a private donor who can attach conditions to the funded bursary. I wouldn’t be surprised if the bursary in question was paid for by a donation from someone specifically saying it was to be awarded to an indigenous student. You’ll easily find something similar for all kinds of identifiable groups.

true and accepted as such but when it is the provincial government handing it out?

 

[IKnowNothing]

true and accepted as such but when it is the provincial government handing it out?

Are you meaning this?

Welcome to the Ontario Student Assistance Program:Indigenous Student Bursary

Welcome to the Ontario Student Assistance Program:Indigenous Student Bursary

osap.gov.on.ca

It's been a while since I did my post secondary- but I have a lot of trouble believing that was the only bursary/scholarship available to her.

 

[Edward Campbell]

If I'm stuck in a burning building, having a heart attack on the street or being accosted in a bar, I want the most qualified person,, hired on merit alone to attend to me.
I don't care what colour or ethnicity they are, but I want the person that was hired above everyone else, based on how they perform, not how they look.
DEI is a farce that will do nothing but degrade the service that company provides. If a non white Every person who wants the job, they should compete like against everyone else.

FTFY