PrairieFella
Army.ca Veteran
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No, I'm talking the guys like Mark Levine, there's still some holdouts
Trump administration 2024-2028
- Thread starter dimsum
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FJAG
Army.ca Legend
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I think where you go off the rails is where you equate "being opposed to actions being taken by the state" with being "enemies of the state."
"Obstruction," "rebellion" and " insurrection," are not a continuum at all. "Rebellion" and "insurrection" are basically synonymous while "obstruction" is a completely different thing. One person's "obstruction" is another person's "peaceful voicing of their 1st amendment rights." A peaceful demonstration, which has a handful of individuals who commit criminal acts during its course, does not equate to an "insurrection," any more than "January 6th" was an insurrection by the Republican Party.
One of the problems with the current White House and those who support it are that it is entirely too quick to label voiced opposition to its policies and procedural ways of enforcing those policies as "enemies of the state." That's blatant nonsense bordering on hysterical paranoia.
What ought to be of much greater concern to the nation than a handful of people waving flags on the streets of Los Angeles is an executive that is riding roughshod over the legislature and judiciary and the constitution and who holds political rallies with the nation's military.
quadrapiper
Army.ca Veteran
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This.
An immigration-status crackdown conducted by uniformed, unmasked feds using marked vehicles that saw everyone without authorization to be in the states punted back to their home country would be infinitely less riddled with abuses of people and process than this evolution.
On top of the grab/camp/third-country prison mess, grabbing people who're engaged with the immigration application hearing process is an absolutely incredible bit of pointless viciousness.
quadrapiper
Army.ca Veteran
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Or insistence on due process, re: warrants, arresting officers being identifiable as such*, and so on, as applicable.
*not even touching anonymity, just "is this person law enforcement or a mugger?"
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Yep. Agreed to, 100%. That covers the very, very few bona fide reports of people being abducted into unmarked white vans and/or sent to gulags in South America.
Now, the rest (millions)? They all get to stay? If they don't show up for process, no-one goes after them? Let the ones with criminal histories stay? Even the ones who have been deported already one or more times?
There's much, much, much, much more at stake than the tales of snatch-and-render that are used to front opposition. Those tales can all be true, and it doesn't matter: the laws still ought to be enforced.
Big picture, what else? Wait a few years until Democrats and establishment Republicans agree to another amnesty, then Democrats get power and let in a few more million; rinse, repeat? Give face to the "jobs Americans won't do line" propaganda instead of grabbing the people who roll out that despicable excuse by the heels and shaking them until they admit to de facto support of conditions of labour approximating indentured service?
If some Americans are going to basically ignore laws they don't like, then the field is open for everyone to pick and choose.
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You get what you pay for (or what you don't pay for)
www.military.com
Guard Soldiers Deployed in Trump's LA Crackdown Aren't Getting Paid Yet
According to more than a dozen Guardsmen across four units who spoke to Military.com, none has received formal activation orders, the critical paperwork that not only authorizes their duty status, but also unlocks pay and Tricare health benefits.
www.military.com
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If you've read any appreciable amount of what I've written here, you must know I don't think everyone on the spectrum of opposition to the state is an enemy of the state. I am confident that I am much more tolerant of dissent and opposed to potential state tyranny than most contributors on this site. I was responding to a fatuous indirect suggestion that the US is on the road to some kind of tyranny.
Obstruction is something that some people used to get quite worked up about here. If you're obstructing or interfering with the legimate business of the state, you're obstructing or interfering. The particular thing being obstructed doesn't matter.
Agreed, but a pointless complaint. Go watch Joe Biden's "Battle for the Soul of the Nation" speech. Politicians routinely vilify Americans as threats or enemies because of mere policy disagreement. It's as normalized as claiming someone didn't pay enough taxes. People should not have ignored, condoned, or defended that shit the previous times around.
There's a lot more going on than waving (Mexican) flags. People act as if none of this would be happening if no soldiers were involved, which is untrue by observation. The only satisfactory outcome for the agitators will be for the administration to concede that it will not enforce particular federal law in areas where people demand it not be enforced.
Instead of drawing a cloud-shaped diagram of imagined lawless acts of the administration to create the impression it's common as dirt, it would be better to enumerate the specific cases where all dispute processes in the courts have been exhausted and the administration is defying the final judgement. I raise this point because every couple of weeks or so I read articles by lawyers who are not enamoured of Trump - conservatives and progressives, Republicans and Democrats - who note that the administration (and his previous one) pretty much abide by all decisions after there are no further processes for appeal. They're allowed to push boundaries and keep testing them in the courts.
It would be better if everyone sucked back their anti-Trump priors and admitted as first principles that the administration has the duty to enforce federal laws, irrespective of whether people or state or local governments prefer otherwise; and, that the federal government has the duty to protect its people and institutions, including the use of soldiers; and, that instances of errors or unlawful actions or apparent hypocrisy do not delegitimize anything else the administration might do; and, that battles being fought in courts are not lawlessness; and, that presidents challenging Congress to assert itself against presidential over-reach is undesirable but normalized.
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Indefensible. At least they probably don't sign pink pay sheets.
Given how fluid this situation is at the moment, I'm sure those papers will be sent to their units within a day or soYou get what you pay for (or what you don't pay for)
Guard Soldiers Deployed in Trump's LA Crackdown Aren't Getting Paid Yet
According to more than a dozen Guardsmen across four units who spoke to Military.com, none has received formal activation orders, the critical paperwork that not only authorizes their duty status, but also unlocks pay and Tricare health benefits.
- Reaction score
- 30,913
- Points
- 1,260
Federalized troops cannot be used for anything beyond Federal installation protection, unless the Insurrection Act is used.
SCOTUS has already wacked POTUS’s peepee when it comes to the IA.
The Fed Gov has many many many lawyers telling the Administration to reel their neck in wrt Military troops, as Federalized ARNG (or USAR, USMCR etc) are the same as Active Duty when it comes to Posse Comittatus.
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Meanwhile, elsewhere in POTUS47-ville, a hearty "Хорошего дня, товарищи!" to USSR 2.0 ...
... and a "what choo talkin' 'bout nuke subs, Willis?" for some allies
www.theguardian.com
apnews.com
www.aljazeera.com
... and a "what choo talkin' 'bout nuke subs, Willis?" for some allies
Pentagon launches review of US-UK-Australia Aukus security alliance
Future of $240bn defense pact in doubt as Trump administration reviews it to see if it aligns with ‘America first’ agenda
www.theguardian.com
Australia's defense minister downplays concerns over Pentagon review of multi-billion submarine deal
Australia’s defense minister has dismissed concerns that a deal between the U.S., Australia and Britain to provide his country with nuclear-powered submarines could be in jeopardy, following a report that the Pentagon had ordered a review.
apnews.com
Australia confident AUKUS security pact will proceed despite US review
Australia says the plan to deliver nuclear submarines remains unchanged, despite opposition from a top Trump official.
The next stupidity will be over who foots the bill- California or the feds? I have no difficulty imagining the troops might be left hanging for a while in the midst of that squabble.
HavokFour
Army.ca Veteran
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Meanwhile, elsewhere in POTUS47-ville, a hearty "Хорошего дня, товарищи!" to USSR 2.0 ...
View attachment 93858
... and a "what choo talkin' 'bout nuke subs, Willis?" for some allies
Pentagon launches review of US-UK-Australia Aukus security alliance
Future of $240bn defense pact in doubt as Trump administration reviews it to see if it aligns with ‘America first’ agendaAustralia's defense minister downplays concerns over Pentagon review of multi-billion submarine deal
Australia’s defense minister has dismissed concerns that a deal between the U.S., Australia and Britain to provide his country with nuclear-powered submarines could be in jeopardy, following a report that the Pentagon had ordered a review.Australia confident AUKUS security pact will proceed despite US review
Australia says the plan to deliver nuclear submarines remains unchanged, despite opposition from a top Trump official.
Rubio has turned out to be such a spineless disappointment.
Russia lost the Cold War. After 50 years or so.
They only took a few years to win the culture war against the leader of the western world. Not only that but to bring them onside…
daftandbarmy
Army.ca Fossil
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Hoo boy...
www.military.com
Bragg Soldiers Who Cheered Trump's Political Attacks While in Uniform Were Checked for Allegiance, Appearance
As President Donald Trump viciously attacked his perceived political foes, he whipped up boos from the gathered troops directed at California leaders, including Gov. Gavin Newsom.
www.military.com
QV
Army.ca Fixture
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Hoo boy...
Bragg Soldiers Who Cheered Trump's Political Attacks While in Uniform Were Checked for Allegiance, Appearance
As President Donald Trump viciously attacked his perceived political foes, he whipped up boos from the gathered troops directed at California leaders, including Gov. Gavin Newsom.
As a soldier, in every kind of public interaction we were always under constant threat to not embarrass the chain of command in any way shape or form (looking like a bag of shit, heckling the guest speaker...etc)
This is not a new thing, but it's a thing because Trump.
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This graphic was making the rounds of the socials, so I guess there's more than a kernel of truth there?Hoo boy...
Bragg Soldiers Who Cheered Trump's Political Attacks While in Uniform Were Checked for Allegiance, Appearance
As President Donald Trump viciously attacked his perceived political foes, he whipped up boos from the gathered troops directed at California leaders, including Gov. Gavin Newsom.
Source
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I did Nazi that coming…Hoo boy...
Bragg Soldiers Who Cheered Trump's Political Attacks While in Uniform Were Checked for Allegiance, Appearance
As President Donald Trump viciously attacked his perceived political foes, he whipped up boos from the gathered troops directed at California leaders, including Gov. Gavin Newsom.
PrairieFella
Army.ca Veteran
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As a soldier you are not supposed to be cheering for the inflammatory rhetoric and personal attacks against rival politicians. We are above politics when the uniform goes on. I'm sure @KevinB can confirm the same applies in the States. Hopefully their chains of command are tracking who brought dishonour to their uniforms.