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Trump administration 2024-2028

QV said:
Drastic situations call for drastic measures.
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What drastic situation calls for masking up and effectively kidnapping citizens from their place of employment without justification in order to check their papers? Please try to give me an answer to this that’s congruent with some concept of a state valuing individual liberty and protection from arbitrary arrest or detention. To me this looks like using the Fourth Amendment as toilet paper.
 
Opening the border and flooding the country with millions of illegal entries of unknown origin and intention.
 
Lumber said:
Tell me QV, is this "Opening the border" in the room with us now?
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I'm not sure what you mean. I'll try and give you my thoughts on what I think you're asking.

Previous administrations put policy in place, or ignored existing policy, that allowed for the flood of millions of illegal entries into their country.

The current administration has made efforts to reverse this, the border has now been secured much more effectively. Phase 1, stop the inflow, has largely been achieved. Going out on a limb, I suspect phase 2 of this is to find and deport those most problematic (criminals, openly displaying bad intentions, etc). I suspect concurrently with Phase 2, the admin is working on a path to resident or citizenship status for the many people who arrived illegally but have turned into contributing members of society.

Bottom line, unchecked mass illegal migration can cause havoc on your country as we can see with many EU nations dealing with their own migrant problems.
 
QV said:
Opening the border and flooding the country with millions of illegal entries of unknown origin and intention.
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So any and all citizens are arbitrarily arrestable by ICE for the purpose of confirming their citizenship status? That’s the necessary logical conclusion of what you’re saying.
 
forgetting rights for a minute- it’s the most expensive way to use your resources for the least return. Anyone who hates big government and wasteful spending should not support the most laborious method with the poorest return for time investment you could manage.
 
brihard said:
So any and all citizens are arbitrarily arrestable by ICE for the purpose of confirming their citizenship status? That’s the necessary logical conclusion of what you’re saying.
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No, that's a leap. I gather some sort of articulable cause is required.
 
Remius said:
That isn’t very consistent with your previous thoughts on suppression of rights.
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My views on personal rights haven't changed. But the more the crazy left subverts prior norms, the harder the correction might potentially be. That's not a ringing endorsement, that's just my observation.

In this case, prior norms means a country with a secure border and control of immigration.
 
QV said:
I'm not sure what you mean. I'll try and give you my thoughts on what I think you're asking.

Previous administrations put policy in place, or ignored existing policy, that allowed for the flood of millions of illegal entries into their country.

The current administration has made efforts to reverse this, the border has now been secured much more effectively. Phase 1, stop the inflow, has largely been achieved. Going out on a limb, I suspect phase 2 of this is to find and deport those most problematic (criminals, openly displaying bad intentions, etc). I suspect concurrently with Phase 2, the admin is working on a path to resident or citizenship status for the many people who arrived illegally but have turned into contributing members of society.

Bottom line, unchecked mass illegal migration can cause havoc on your country as we can see with many EU nations dealing with their own migrant problems.
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Keep in mind during the 2018 election Presidential candidate Trump blasted the Obama Administration for rounding up illegals, separating families. He even visited some of the facilities to crow about how inhuman it was. He closed a lot of the detention facilities and allowed unrestricted access.

Both parties have kicked the can down the road for political purposes. Obama was the first to address it in years, albeit he was a lot more sneaky about it that POTUS47.
 
QV said:
No, that's a leap. I gather some sort of articulable cause is required.
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They were being Latino at work. This is widespread government intimidation, but absolutely nothing to do with distracting people from runaway inflation, job losses or other significant impacts from stupid Trump economic policies drafted in crayon, or the Epstein files that now are fake news, but used to be a Democrat coverup.

Lot of doublethink on the go.
 
QV said:
I'm not sure what you mean. I'll try and give you my thoughts on what I think you're asking.

Previous administrations put policy in place, or ignored existing policy, that allowed for the flood of millions of illegal entries into their country.

The current administration has made efforts to reverse this, the border has now been secured much more effectively. Phase 1, stop the inflow, has largely been achieved. Going out on a limb, I suspect phase 2 of this is to find and deport those most problematic (criminals, openly displaying bad intentions, etc). I suspect concurrently with Phase 2, the admin is working on a path to resident or citizenship status for the many people who arrived illegally but have turned into contributing members of society.

Bottom line, unchecked mass illegal migration can cause havoc on your country as we can see with many EU nations dealing with their own migrant problems.
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What I'm saying is, be a rational adult, and stop using inflammatory right-wing misinformation. The boarders were not "opened".
 
Lumber said:
What I'm saying is, be a rational adult, and stop using inflammatory right-wing misinformation. The boarders were not "opened".
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They may as well have been. How else do you explain the numbers of illegal migrants that flowed in? Give your head a shake. You're nitpicking over language nuance to derail the discussion.
 
QV said:
They may as well have been. How else do you explain the numbers of illegal migrants that flowed in?
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During Trump's first term, CBP logged ~2.4 million "encounters" at the southern border. Encounters means either migrants trying to enter illegally, as well as migrants trying to enter legally but rejected for not meeting requirements. During Biden's term in office, that number was ~8.5 million. You can have the strictest boarder policy of all time, but if that many people are trying to get in, some will get in, especially if you don't increase the tools/forces/funding you have at your disposal to deal with it. Biden tried a few approaches to try and get that number of encounters down, but they didn't seem to work, so he eventually tried to increase funding for border security, and we know how well that went...

Actually, I'll say it. He got a bi-partisan bill together to make significant improvements to border security and it was shut down by Trump because it would have given Biden a political win. If anyone in this debate isn't taking the border seriously and is a threat to security, it's Trump, because he clearly and blatantly allowed the border problem to exacerbate for political gains.

QV said:
Give your head a shake. You're nitpicking over language nuance to derail the discussion.
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No, I'm not. We just had someone assassinated in the US because of inflammatory speech (you can decide whether the inflammatory speech was his own or was the speech of his detractors, it doesn't matter). When you and others say "Biden's Open Borders" or something similar, it's inflammatory. Hell, if Carney literally "opened the borders" I'd be pissed too. But because it's not true, it's unnecessarily creating division and leading to further hostility and polarization.

Don't be part of the problem QV. "Only YOU can prevent Reichstag fires!"
 
To be fair the Dems sent out signals they were not serious about illegal immigration and that creates a belief that they will be more likley to be successful entering and working in the US. To put it into perspective, Canada would need to have over 1 million illegals to feel what the US is feeling on the subject and look at how we are responding to quasi-legal immigration (TFW issue) and we are nowhere near the Illegal immigration issue that is what the US is dealing with.
 
QV said:
In this case, prior norms means a country with a secure border and control of immigration.
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Not a Border Security or Immigration SME. But, based on my travel experiences in Japan, what QV says makes sense to me.

As a Gaijin, you carry your Passport, or Resident Card, on your person - at all times.

Not a copy. Not a photo.. Police, in uniform or plainclothes, routinely, on the street, examine your physical Landing Sticker on Demand.

Japanese police can also stop you for a quick frisk and search and ask a few questions.

Cooperation might lead to a quicker resolution. Police can prolong the interaction if you are not.
 
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