Turkey - Kurdistan (Superthread)

[Cdn Blackshirt]

I consider myself firmly in the Kurd's camp re: long-term independence, but their unwillingness to purge the PKK from its ranks is no different than Pakistan's sheltering of the Taliban.  They need to take internal action or the Turks have every right to go in and clean house.

RE:  An Iranian-Syrian-Turkish union (likely supported by Russia and China) - It makes one shudder....


Matthew.  ???

 

[Bigmac]

More news...

Associated Press

Mourners Protest Government in Turkey

By SUZAN FRASER 06.11.07, 10:09 AM ET

Funerals for three soldiers killed in a roadside bombing by Kurdish rebels turned into anti-government protests Monday as thousands of mourners called on Turkey's leaders to resign over their failure to rein in the violence.

Turks are becoming increasingly angry over the mounting military death toll from attacks by Kurdish rebels, some of whom are believed to be launching incursions from across the border in northern Iraq.

Turkey has been building up its forces along the border with Iraq, and its leaders are debating whether to stage a major incursion to pursue Kurdish rebels at their bases. Such an operation could ignite a wider conflict involving Iraqi Kurds, and draw in its NATO ally, the United States.

The three soldiers were killed Saturday in an attack in the southeastern province of Sirnak and were buried in separate funerals in Istanbul, Ankara and Manisa. Thousands attended the ceremonies, carrying Turkish flags, shouting anti-government slogans and booing ministers and other government officials who were present. Military officials were greeted with applause.

In Ankara, an estimated 10,000 people gathered at the city's largest mosque, shouting "Government resign!" as Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul and other officials arrived. In Manisa, protesters booed Parliament Speaker Bulent Arinc and denounced the United States, Iraqi Kurdish leaders and the Kurdish separatist group, the PKK.

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/06/11/ap3808051.html

 

[midget-boyd91]

http://www.nato.int/docu/pr/2007/p07-065e.html

Statement by the Secretary General
on terrorism in Turkey

I note with concern the series of terrorist attacks that have taken place in Turkey in the last few weeks and again last night in the east of the country. On behalf of all Allies I express my sincere condolences to the Turkish people, in particular to the families of those who have lost their lives.  We strongly condemn terrorism regardless of its motivations and manifestations.  The fight against terrorism remains high on NATO’s agenda.

 

[Bigmac]

       Are the PKK playing games or does the presence of thousands of Turkish troops on their doorstep make them suddenly diplomatic? Things that make you go hmmmm....? ???

June 12, 2007, 10:02AM

Rebel Kurds declare cease-fire in Turkey

By SELCAN HACAOGLU Associated Press Writer

ANKARA, Turkey — Kurdish separatists declared a "unilateral cease-fire" in attacks against Turkey on Tuesday and said they were ready for peace negotiations, but the group maintained the right to defend itself.

The statement came as the Turkish military has intensified operations against the separatist Kurdistan Workers' Party, also known as PKK, in the country's southeast, at the border with Iraq. The guerrillas have been fighting for autonomy in Turkey for more than two decades.

"We are renewing our declaration to halt attacks against the Turkish army," Abdul Rahman Chaderchi, the PKK official in charge of foreign affairs, said in northern Iraq, where the rebels have several bases.

"We want peace and we are ready for negotiations, but if Turkey decides to attack our bases inside Turkey or inside Iraqi Kurdistan, then this unilateral cease-fire will be meaningless. If we are attacked, we will fight back and we have the ability to confront any Turkish aggression," he added.

Turkish troops have massed at the frontier and shelled Iraqi territory while pursuing rebels, drawing criticism from the Iraqi government and raising fears that the conflict could draw in its NATO ally, the United States.

The Turkish government had no immediate response to the PKK statement, but has ignored several past cease-fires declared by the group, ruling out negotiations with "terrorists."

It was unclear if the rebel announcement reflected a desire to ease pressure from the Turkish armed forces, or was a public relations effort to portray the rebels as peace-seeking, and the military as the aggressor. The rebels might also want to give Kurdish candidates in Turkish parliamentary elections next month a chance to make gains at the polls without being accused of links to rebel violence.

The PKK has accused the Turkish military of engineering the collapse of a unilateral rebel cease-fire declared on Oct. 1, 2006.

Turkey's prime minister said Tuesday that the country needs to focus on fighting the PKK inside its borders amid a debate over whether Turkey should pursue rebels in a cross-border operation into northern Iraq.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/world/4882371.html

 

[Bigmac]

Cease-fire now over!

Turkish bomb blast hurts six in latest rebel attack

A BOMB exploded today in Turkey injuring six people including a soldier.

The bomb exploded near bus stops from where military personnel are picked up in the mainly Kurdish city of Diyarbakir.

Police believe the bomb was attached to a bicycle carrying newspapers that had been left in the area, and were investigating whether separatist Kurdish rebels were behind the attack.

Authorities were also investigating the type of bomb used. One of the injured, a local shop owner, was reportedly in serious condition.

Kurdish rebels, who have been fighting for autonomy in the region for more than two decades, have previously carried out bomb attacks in the city.

The rebels have stepped up attacks on Turkish troops. Guerrillas of the Kurdistan Workers Party, or PKK, have killed more than two dozen soldiers or pro-government village guards in several attacks since May 24

Turkish troops have killed 25 guerrillas during the same period, according to a count by the military, which has launched several offensives inside Turkey and has massed troops along the border with Iraq.

In a recent attack, Kurdish guerrillas killed a Turkish army corporal.

This article: http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=939122007

 

[Kirkhill]

I think it is a bit early to declare the "cease fire" over. 

In fact it may be a bit early to declare that a PKK cease fire was necessary in the first place.

The Kurds in Turkey have an election to win and bombs are unlikely to improve the chances of their candidates.

Bombs are marvellously anonymous things.  They can be employed by anyone and credit for their use given, taken or denied by anyone.  Just take a look at the campaign being waged in Lebanon to reduce the anti-Syrian majority in the Government.
 
http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2007/06/another-anti-syrian-politician.html
( by the way that apparently isn't an unhappy event to all concerned judging from the reaction at the TV Station owned by the Pro-Syrian Speaker Nabi Berri http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2007/06/pro-syrian-lebanese-news-anchor.html )

PS - for a great look at the Chaos in the area Gateway Pundit is a good place to start.  They have an agenda but doesn't everyone these days.

I am still inclined to believe that the efforts to de-stabilize the Turkish-Iraqi border, the bombing of the Samarra Mosque, the upsurge by Hamas and Fatah-al-Islam, AND the bombing or legislators in Lebanon are all of a piece - all related. 

And I think they have to do with the pressure being successfully exerted in Iraq by the US and the Iraqis against Al-Qaeda, Syria and Ahmadinejad and his Republican Guard.  As are the bridge bombings in two regions of Iraq - in Diyalla which is currently the focus of a major operation and the area round Iskandariyah.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2007/06/iraq_report_the_day_after_sama.asp

If you keep saying violence in Iraq or Turkey or wherever then the sense is that nothing ever changes.  If you focus on the incidents the you see a pattern of diminishing geographical dispersion, concentration of effort in fewer places, diminishing numbers of incidents with diminishing effects. 

Unfortunately it only takes 1 "Spectacular" to grab the headlines and allow the "all is lost" crowd to present their case.

 

[Bigmac]

I think it is a bit early to declare the "cease fire" over. 

In fact it may be a bit early to declare that a PKK cease fire was necessary in the first place.

The Kurds in Turkey have an election to win and bombs are unlikely to improve the chances of their candidates.

Bombs are marvellously anonymous things.  They can be employed by anyone and credit for their use given, taken or denied by anyone.  Just take a look at the campaign being waged in Lebanon to reduce the anti-Syrian majority in the Government.
 

       So if it wasn't the PKK bombing lately then who was it? Are you saying that some other factions may be planting bombs in Turkey and trying to pin it on the PKK to screw up the elections and keep tensions high?
     
       I do hope the Turkish elections go well and I also hope that Turkey sorts itself out and get's back on political track. However there is such a wide diversity of political and traditional ideals in that country. I do not want to be part of the "all is lost" crowd so hopefully democracy will prevail and all will accept the election results.

              
       
     

 

[Kirkhill]

That is pretty much what I am suggesting.

As I say there are other people than the PKK with an interest in destabilizing things over there. The Syrians and Iranians for starters.

As well, to my eye, the PKK looks to be a prime candidate for factionalism.  Remember there are Communist Kurds born in Syria, Turkey, Iraq, Iran and Lebanon.  It must be pretty hard to decide where everybodies loyalties lie: party, leader, tribal leader, country, tribe or the organization.  It isn't impossible to me that some members of the PKK might find it appropriate to do things in the better interests of Syria or Iran, or others.

 

[Bigmac]

    Apparently the PKK are denying responsibility for the Fri bombing. Who knows if we will find out what the truth of the matter is?

PKK denies Turkey blast claim

Kurdish rebels yesterday denied responsibility for a bomb blast that wounded seven people in Turkey’s main Kurdish city the previous day, a news agency close to the militants reported.

“Kurdish forces have nothing to do with the blast,” said a statement quoted by the Firat agency, widely regarded as the mouthpiece of the separatist Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK).

The bomb, hidden in the saddle of a bicycle, exploded Friday morning near a bus stop in the centre of Diyarbakir often used by soldiers. One of those injured was a soldier.

“The way the incident happened and the type of explosive used indicates who did it,” Interior Minister Osman Gunes said, in an apparent reference to the PKK, which has notably stepped up attacks this year.

He said a detailed statement would be made after the police completed their investigation.

http://english.alarabonline.org/display.asp?fname=2007%5C06%5C06-17%5Czalsoz%5C922.htm&dismode=x&ts=17/06/2007%2011:32:23%20%C3%95

 

[MarkOttawa]

I don't think the contents of the story quite justify the pretty firm judgment in the headline:

Major Turkish Incursion in N. Iraq Seen as Unlikely
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/16/AR2007061601345.html

IRBIL, Iraq -- Iraqi border police believe neighboring Turkey has amassed 20,000 to 30,000 soldiers along its southern border with Iraq. Turkish helicopters have flown into Iraqi airspace to conduct missions against Kurdish rebels in the mountainous region, and Turkish mortar shells regularly crash down on Iraqi soil, according to U.S. and Iraqi officials.

About two weeks ago, a team of Turkish special forces soldiers was discovered in the city of Sulaymaniyah, about 115 miles into Iraqi territory...

...in interviews last week in the Kurdish semiautonomous region in Iraq, officials responsible for the border said they did not expect a major Turkish incursion and hoped the tensions would dissipate with diplomatic negotiations.

"I can't believe that the Turkish people would attack Kurdistan. I just can't believe that," said Brig. Gen. Muhsen Abdul Hasan Lazem, an Iraqi Interior Ministry official who leads the border force. "All this staging is a show of force, but I don't think they're going to do anything. They are passing a message to the Kurdistan government that they are serious."..

...the prospect of a large-scale Turkish military movement into Iraq appeared to lessen last week when Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said his country should focus on the large number of militants operating in Turkey before seeking them out in Iraq. And Iraqi officials acknowledge that Turkish shelling of the border regions and troop movements in the area have been a seasonal pastime for years as the snows melt and activity picks up across the border...

The U.S. military has a small contingent in Iraq's Kurdish north and a limited view of activity along the northern border. A team of about a dozen U.S. soldiers works with the Iraqi border force in the Kurdish capital of Irbil and visits the outposts along the border; a U.S. Special Forces team also works in the area. On one trip, Special Forces Col. Johnny C. Strain, who leads the border transition team, saw a 1.5-mile-long airstrip with 18 Turkish tanks guarding it.

The team's intelligence officer, Sgt. 1st Class Jody Reynolds, said Turkish forces have been "mortaring fairly regularly" along the border and "conducting cross-border operations, in order to push back PKK elements or to retaliate."..

Within the past two weeks, a team of Turkish special forces soldiers wearing civilian clothes was stopped by Kurdish militiamen, known as pesh merga, at a checkpoint in Sulaymaniyah and asked for identification, an episode that worsened tensions between the two countries, Strain said...

Iraqi officials estimate that about 3,000 PKK members are in northern Iraq. The group controls some routes into the country and taxes passing vehicles to help finance its operations, U.S. officials said. One senior Iraqi security official said the United States needs to "pinch Barzani" to make him take a harder line against the rebels. The Iraqi border force does not have the power to stop Turkish troops from coming into Iraq or to keep rebels from pushing out to Turkey, the security official acknowledged...

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Bigmac]

    I believe the Turkish military is itching to sort the PKK out in Northern Iraq. They are being somewhat restrained by their government but for how long?? If Turkey doesn't become politically stable soon the military may not listen anymore.

Turkish military pounds transit roads used by PKK terrorists along border

Turkish military forces along the North Iraq border, continuing their operation in the mountainous region outside of Sirnak against PKK forces, have been firing from tanks and rockets from the peaks of Cudi Mountain onto roads used by terrorists to slip back and forth across the border.

Meanwhile, 2 US military helicopters flew routes over the Turkish-Iraqi border yesterday, near the ongoing Turkish military operations.

http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/6716841.asp

 

[Bigmac]

Turkey raises troop levels along Iraq border

Reuters

July 14, 2007

Diyarbakir, Turkey -- Turkey's army has boosted troop levels in the restive southeast to more than 200,000, most of them stationed along the border with Iraq, security sources said yesterday.

The unusually large buildup, which includes tanks, heavy artillery and aircraft, is part of a security crackdown on Kurdish rebels hiding in southeast Turkey and northern Iraq, said the security sources, who declined to be identified.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20070714.WORLDREPORT14-4/TPStory/TPInternational/Africa/

    I think the military wants to scratch the itch now. Hopefully they will wait for the election results before doing any possible incursions?

 

[Bigmac]

Iran to export gas to Europe via Turkey
ISNA - Tehran
Service: Energy


TEHRAN, July 14 (ISNA)-Iran and Turkey signed an agreement note which will allow Iran to export its gas to Europe via Turkey.


Iran's minister of oil in his trip to Turkey signed a memorandum of understanding with his Turk counterpart which allows Iran to export Gas to Europe via Turkey, a move that will open a new export market for Iran's massive reserves.

Oil minister Kazem Vaziri-Hamaneh said the memorandum of understanding included an agreement to pump gas from Turkmenistan to Turkey via Iran and Tehran's approval for Ankara to develop three phases of Iran's South Pars gas field.

Iran, with the world's biggest gas reserves after Russia, has been considering Ukraine and Turkey as possible routes to get its gas to Europe. In August 2006, it announced plans for a joint scheme with Ankara to use its pipelines.

"This Memorandum of Understanding will allow the transit of Iran's gas to Europe via Turkey and will let Turkmenistan's gas to be exported to Europe through Iran's soil," Vaziri-Hamaneh said.

The proposed 4.6 billion Euro ($6.3 billion) Nabucco pipeline project that will cross Turkey is backed by the European Union partly as a means to diversify away from reliance on Russia by gaining access to Central Asian gas.

http://www.isna.ir/Main/NewsView.aspx?ID=News-959945&Lang=E

      Now this would make sense as to why Turkey wants stability in it's southern borders. Running an Iranian gas pipeline through Turkey to the EU is a great idea and a profitable one for Turkey and Iran. Unfortunately the US will not like it as they have the same pipeline idea except originating from northern Iraq. I believe Turkey would prefer to deal with Iran instead of the predominately Kurdish government of Northern Iraq. The EU is onboard any idea that will divert some of their energy needs away from Russia.
    It says the agreements are likely to be signed within the next 4 to 6 months.

 

[George Wallace]

......... Unfortunately the US will not like it as they have the same pipeline idea except originating from northern Iraq. I believe Turkey would prefer to deal with Iran instead of the predominately Kurdish government of Northern Iraq. The EU is onboard any idea that will divert some of their energy needs away from Russia.
     It says the agreements are likely to be signed within the next 4 to 6 months.

???

This puzzles me.  Why would you think this.  It would make things cheaper.  Two pipelines built into Turkey, and one main pipeline to feed them into the EU.  Turkey wins on both counts.  The EU is a friend of the US and they benefit from the new access to oil.  Win-Win in my books.  In the end both Iran and Iraq will benefit and perhaps become more moderate to the West.

 

[Kirkhill]

Actually as I understand it, 3 pipelines through Turkey (actually more likely one big one with three feeders - the Caspian from Kazakhstan and Azerbaijan, from Iran and from Iraq.)  Commercially the more that can be fitted into one pipeline the better - as in the case of our MacKenzie pipeline and sharing with Alaska.  Strategically one pipeline or three doesn't matter, as long as Russian line isn't the only European feed.

A multinode grid with lines through both Turkey AND Russia, and with Russia being a full PARTNER in the project with all the other countries and companies, makes for a much more secure, and profitable supply.

I think Turkey is on the border for three reasons:


The Secularists, which is the Army faction, is telling the electorate: you live in a troubled region and we've kept you reasonably safe until now.  Stick with us and not the Islamic faction.

The Turks DO have a problem with Kurdish terrorists and they are right to put pressure on and safeguard their borders, especially in the face of instability

It supplies the Turkish army and Government with many options if things go pear-shaped across the region this summer.


As to the Kurds and the Americans:  As long as the Turks are keeping the PKK occupied in an isolated part of the country then the PUK and the KDP won't be complaining too loudly.

 

[MarkOttawa]

So there goes any serious chance of Turkmen gas being sent via Afstan.  Another conspiracy theory that should be put to rest.

But what about this?

Russia clinches gas pipeline deal
Map showing region of Caspian gas pipeline
Russia, Turkmenistan and Kazakhstan have agreed to build a new natural gas pipeline north from the Caspian Sea.
BBC, May 12, 2007
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6649169.stm

Looks like the Turkmens will have two routes to Europe.  Maybe three if the Trans-Caspian pipeline gets built.

More here (good map):

Turkmenistan: Multiple Gas Pipelines Still Possible
http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/may2007/2007-05-24-02.asp

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Kirkhill]

Right now I would say we are all that the stage of haggling over the price.  The Turkmen have offered the Russians a small tranche of their production for the European market and the Russians are taking 50% off the top.  That will be a significantly higher chunk of the profits.

The Turkmen are probably looking at the pipeline that is under construction across Turkey and figuring that nobody is going to waste that investment.  Until they have that pipeline complete then there is no market.  The Euros aren't going away though and will be there when the pipeline is done.

Meantime the Turkmen don't have any Champions to defend them if the Russians decide to play by Lenin's rules.  Until the Middle East settles down they are vulnerable.

Again.  Who does instability serve?  Who has a background in generating instability?

 

[Bigmac]

Twin car bombings in northern Iraqi city of Kirkuk kill at least 71 people

YAHYA BARZANJI

KIRKUK, Iraq (AP) - Twin suicide car bombings exploded within 20 minutes of each other in the northern city of Kirkuk on Monday, killing at least 71 people and wounding around 150 in attacks targeting a Kurdish political office and ripping through an outdoor market, police said.

The attacks began around noon when a suicide bomber detonated his explosives-packed vehicle near the concrete blast walls of the headquarters of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan.

Soon after, the second bomber attacked the Haseer market, 640 metres away, destroying stalls and cars, said Kirkuk police Brig. Sarhat Qadir.

The outdoor Haseer market - with stalls of vegetable and fruit sellers - is frequented by Kurds in Kirkuk, a city where tensions are high between the Kurdish and Arab populations.

http://www.recorder.ca/cp/World/070716/w071637A.html

    Well I guess the PKK will now have to watch their backs as well. Radical Arab groups in Iraq also want the Kurds gone. This is horrible news for the US who have been able to keep Northern Iraq calm for some time.  Does this mean the Kurds will be added to the mix? Hopefully the US can do something quick as Iraq is on the verge of a full blown civil war.
    Turkey has the right idea strengthening security at it's southern border.

 

[Bigmac]

US Against Iran Gas Deal (17/07/2007)


The United States opposes new Turkish plans to transport Turkmen gas via Iran and Turkey to Europe and for a Turkish state-owned firm to develop Iran’s South Pars field, a State Department official said yesterday.

“By government and by law, we are opposed to investment in Iran or energy projects in the country,” the official, who asked not to be named, told Reuters over the phone.

A senior Turkish energy official said on Saturday that Turkey had signed a preliminary agreement with Iran to pump 30 billion cubic meters of natural gas from Iran and Turkmenistan through Iran and on to Europe.

The agreement also included a plan for the Turkish Petroleum Corporation (TPAO) to develop Iran’s South Pars gas field in three phases and extract 20 bcm of gas from there.

An official from Turkey’s Ministry of Energy, however, said that the project was not against anyone’s interests.

“The agreement that Turkey made is not against anyone. This is a project that is extremely important for meeting Turkey’s and the European Union’s gas needs,” said an official from the Turkish Energy Ministry.

The Turkish official said the deal meant no further supplies were needed for the Nabucco project – a –4.6 billion ($6.35 billion) pipeline, supported by the EU, to bring central Asian gas to Europe. Turkey had sought Russian gas for the project.

The United States, a NATO ally of Turkey, has no diplomatic ties with Iran. The US Congress is considering legislation that would force President George W. Bush to impose sanctions on European and other companies that invest more than $20 million in Iran’s oil and gas industry.

    I don't think threatening the EU is good foreign policy for the US. I believe the US is upset about Iran entering the competition to supply energy resources to the EU through Turkey as it will cause price wars with them and Russia. This kind of competition would mean much better energy prices for EU so there is no way that they will protest another source of energy supplies to choose from.

    The US government will never leave Iraq until they establish their own pipeline from Northern Iraq, unfortunately this cannot be done without boots on the ground.

 

[Bigmac]

Link for last article posted:

http://www.energia.gr/indexengr.php?newsid=15019&page=1&lang=en