U.S. Annexing Canada (split fm Liberal Minority thread)

[KevinB]

eg: California has 68 times as many people as Wyoming - but only 18 times as many electoral college votes. Both states get two senators.

We don't like California.

 

[The Bread Guy]

So we are facing a 2% of GDP hit on our economy if we do nothing and get nothing for it, or we can spend 2% of GDP on defence (call it 3.5% (1.5+2)) and maintain access to the US?

Presuming, of course, that all the U.S. sanctions come off once Canada starts spending 3.5% on defence, right? As someone else wisely said, have you seen that in writing anywhere?

 

[Jarnhamar]

So we are facing a 2% of GDP hit on our economy if we do nothing and get nothing for it, or we can spend 2% of GDP on defence (call it 3.5% (1.5+2)) and maintain access to the US?

Spending 3.5% on defense is better than spending 1.3% (or whatever we're at) on defense whether Trump backs off or not though IMO.

If we only spend this money to shut Trump up it's not going to be a genuine effort and the priority will be to shut Trump up instead of protecting Canada and Canadian interests abroad.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Sure, except that the “provinces vs federal govt” split is more US-style, where a state has more power than a province does in our political construct.

So she can say whatever, but if she’s actually putting AB ahead of the rest of Canada, then it’s just a different way of saying “AB wants to secede”.

Canada can blame itself for that.

 

[Quirky]

What's stopping individual states from implementing universal healthcare?

 

[dimsum]

Canada can blame itself for that.

Sure, but that’s the way the board is laid out and no govt seems to want to change it.

What's stopping individual states from implementing universal healthcare?

The medical insurance industry? Decades of lobbying that “universal healthcare is socialist”?

 

[Halifax Tar]

Sure, but that’s the way the board is laid out and no govt seems to want to change it.

Glad we agree.

 

[dimsum]

Glad we agree.

We’re agreeing in that the systems are different. We’re not agreeing whether the Canadian or American system is better.

The US is 50 different locations tenuously cobbled together, highlighted best by the fact that how a federal election is counted depends on the state. I think the last few years have really tested the “united” part of the United States.

 

[Halifax Tar]

We’re agreeing in that the systems are different. We’re not agreeing whether the Canadian or American system is better.

I have never made a claim as to either. Go find someone else to argue with.

My point is that the sad state of affairs that were in and secessionist possiblity is squarely on Canadian shoulders. We did this to ourselves.

 

[dimsum]

I have never made a claim as to either. Go find someone else to argue with.

My point is that the sad state of affairs that were in and secessionist possiblity is squarely on Canadian shoulders. We did this to ourselves.

Fair - I took your comments to mean something it didn’t.

 

[Brad Sallows]

As for Canada, we are a Vassal State that has existed & prospered under American benevolence & protection for the past 80+ years.

Vassals pay tribute. We don't. We've been getting the benevolence and protection for almost nothing, no matter how irritating and vocal our we're-different-and-better-than-Americans cheering section is.

 

[Rifleman62]

So she can say whatever, but if she’s actually putting AB Quebec ahead of the rest of Canada, then it’s just a different way of saying “AB Quebec wants to secede”

The history of Canada.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Angus Reid Institute (ARI) on how folks feel on both sides of the border on this one ....

Canada as 51st State? Four-in-five Americans say a merger should be up to Canadians; 90% of us say ‘no’ -

Americans oppose a merger 2:1; just 52% say if Canada does join the U.S., it should get ‘full statehood’ January 14, 2025 – Comments once dismissed as “trolling”, “musing” or “Trump just being Trump” have taken on more serious overtones as the U.S. president-elect persists in talking about...

angusreid.org

Also archived here.

Some highlights

• "Trump has said he wouldn’t use military force to bring Canada into the fold, but three-in-five Canadians (62%) say they don’t trust him to hold to his word.
• This discourse is having an impact on views of the U.S. from north of the border. Favourability is down 15 points from June of this year. Further, Canadians are now three-times as likely to view the U.S. as an enemy or a potential threat compared with two years ago.
• ARI asked those Canadians who oppose joining the U.S. if any number of factors would change their view. Most said they would not change their stance if they personally lost their job (74%), lost half their income (69%) or if Canada entered a deep recession (76%) because of economic pressure levied by Trump."

 

[Halifax Tar]

The history of Canada.

A sad state of affairs.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Angus Reid Institute (ARI) on how folks feel on both sides of the border on this one ....

Canada as 51st State? Four-in-five Americans say a merger should be up to Canadians; 90% of us say ‘no’ -

Americans oppose a merger 2:1; just 52% say if Canada does join the U.S., it should get ‘full statehood’ January 14, 2025 – Comments once dismissed as “trolling”, “musing” or “Trump just being Trump” have taken on more serious overtones as the U.S. president-elect persists in talking about...

angusreid.org

Also archived here.

Some highlights

• "Trump has said he wouldn’t use military force to bring Canada into the fold, but three-in-five Canadians (62%) say they don’t trust him to hold to his word.
• This discourse is having an impact on views of the U.S. from north of the border. Favourability is down 15 points from June of this year. Further, Canadians are now three-times as likely to view the U.S. as an enemy or a potential threat compared with two years ago.
• ARI asked those Canadians who oppose joining the U.S. if any number of factors would change their view. Most said they would not change their stance if they personally lost their job (74%), lost half their income (69%) or if Canada entered a deep recession (76%) because of economic pressure levied by Trump."

View attachment 90459
View attachment 90460
View attachment 90461

I tend to believe this is all just trump being a blow hard.

But I think it's shown some real weaknesses in our confederation and we need to work to fix those for the sake of Canada's future.

 

[dimsum]

The history of Canada.

I’m happy to be proven wrong but has the Quebec Premier gone to another country to strike a deal separate from, and without the blessing of, the Canadian govt?

 

[Brad Sallows]

"Energy export restrictions ‘on the table’ to respond to U.S. tariff threats, Joly says"

As I wrote:

"Regions of Canada that have been marginalized from time to time by parts of the Canadian establishment should consider acting to improve their own positions domestically and internationally irrespective of what the old guard wants, since the Canadian establishment will go right back to marginalizing those regions after pretending we're all "working together" while carefully making sure the establishment yields as little as possible in the meantime."

"Let's you and him fight" is not a position a LPC government should promote towards the major energy exporting provinces on one side and the US on the other. "We're all in this together", but the costs fall on the same old places. Canadians ought to take notice of what this amounts to and stuff the LPC into political oblivion. How about a small gesture like unequivocally and expeditiously eradicating the supply management irritant first? Until they accept political damage without requiring some domestic political quid pro quo, the LPC is not to be trusted and none of their positions that require sacrifices from regions not key to their (LPC) parliamentary majorities should be accepted.

 

[dimsum]

I tend to believe this is all just trump being a blow hard.

…and folks like me see it as “…is he, though?”

He was elected the first time as someone who “says it like it is”, and some of his supporters still think that. As we have seen, Smith has come back saying that he doesn’t intend to change the tariff situation. That would seem in-line with my point above.

Taking politics out of it - say you were in school and the class bully is about to take your lunch money. He says he’ll punch you until you give him said money, and his crew say that he means it. His previous “bargaining” style was to do just that to other people. Would you just hand over the $ whenever he asks, or would you push back knowing that he would win in a fight?

 

[Brad Sallows]

• "Trump has said he wouldn’t use military force to bring Canada into the fold, but three-in-five Canadians (62%) say they don’t trust him to hold to his word.

Someone ought to remind three-in-five Canadians that only Congress has the power to declare war.

Who really supposes that Trump would attack a NATO ally (Canada or Denmark) militarily and not:

• be resisted by essentially the entire military command structure that matters, and
• be impeached and convicted as quickly as the process allows?

 

[Rifleman62]

I’m happy to be proven wrong but has the Quebec Premier gone to another country to strike a deal separate from, and without the blessing of, the Canadian govt?

You missed the point again. The Quebec Premier doesn't have to go anywhere to strike a deal. Deals seem to always fall into Quebec's favoured basket.
Plus always talking about separation.