U.S. Annexing Canada (split fm Liberal Minority thread)

[CBH99]

FWIW I do not think the USA is going to drive a bunch of Abrams and what not over the border.

Red Dawn will have to wait.

I just hope that if that happens (99.99% chance it won't) that they choose to do so in like December or January, and they choose southern Saskatchewan or Manitoba for their advance...

That problem will take care of itself without a single shot being fired from either side

 

[CBH99]

The chances of us being in a military conflict with the USA is such a remote possibility that throwing down money on the possibility of a Martian invasion will be a safer bet.

I have a theory that WE are the Martin's...

Also, I think they hated country music so much their heads would literally explode inside their helmets...no??



WELCOME TO ALBERTA!!

Where, I kid you not, I waited in the drive thru of a Burger Baron behind someone on horseback not too long ago...

We got all the country music we need to dominate those alien scum

 

[lenaitch]

I have a theory that WE are the Martin's...

Also, I think they hated country music so much their heads would literally explode inside their helmets...no??



WELCOME TO ALBERTA!!

Where, I kid you not, I waited in the drive thru of a Burger Baron behind someone on horseback not too long ago...

We got all the country music we need to dominate those alien scum

Toronto Police never like to be out-done.



Or the Mennonites

 

[CBH99]

Toronto Police never like to be out-done.

View attachment 92226

Or the Mennonites

View attachment 92227

Pffftttttt...copy cats...

(Yes I realize Canada was settled east to west, don't fact check me on this one guys...)


But at least we still have Shania Twain!! Am I right or am I right??????

(Well frig...)

 

[JLB50]

Former MP wants to explore Alberta's future with U.S. - Medicine Hat News

@@CollinGallant Medicine Hat’s former Member of Parliament is part of a group hoping to open direct talks with U.S President Donald Trump about Alberta’s future, and is also now calling for a provincial independence referendum this year. LaVar Payne is listed among the attendees of a press...

medicinehatnews.com

I have a question regarding the possibility of, say, Alberta holding a referendum on joining the United States. First off, I don’t think most Albertans would vote to join the U.S. for a variety of reasons. But let’s say they did. (After January 6th, most Americans thought Trump would never be back as President).

So my question involves legalities and our First Nations. Seeing how they have numerous treaties with the Government of Canada, would they have to accept the will of the majority of Albertans and secede from Canada? Or would FN reserves still remain in Canada whereas only patches of non-reserve lands would join the U.S.?

 

[MrWhyt]

Seeing how they have numerous treaties with the Government of Canada, would they have to accept the will of the majority of Albertans and secede from Canada? Or would FN reserves still remain in Canada whereas only patches of non-reserve lands would join the U.S.?

I don't see how legally they could be forced to join an independent alberta, their treaties are with the crown not the province.

 

[QV]

Former MP wants to explore Alberta's future with U.S. - Medicine Hat News

@@CollinGallant Medicine Hat’s former Member of Parliament is part of a group hoping to open direct talks with U.S President Donald Trump about Alberta’s future, and is also now calling for a provincial independence referendum this year. LaVar Payne is listed among the attendees of a press...

medicinehatnews.com

I have a question regarding the possibility of, say, Alberta holding a referendum on joining the United States. First off, I don’t think most Albertans would vote to join the U.S. for a variety of reasons. But let’s say they did. (After January 6th, most Americans thought Trump would never be back as President).

So my question involves legalities and our First Nations. Seeing how they have numerous treaties with the Government of Canada, would they have to accept the will of the majority of Albertans and secede from Canada? Or would FN reserves still remain in Canada whereas only patches of non-reserve lands would join the U.S.?

Good questions. I have no input on that.

I just wanted to add to your first comment that if we see the kind of trend below continue, a lot more people are going to be looking for better outcomes. And if Canada refuses to correct course while others are putting offers on the table that might materially change people's lives for the better, then there is a real risk of Canada fracturing one way or another. Loyalty goes both ways, and a government ought to look after its' own lest those people become significantly dissatisfied. The last nine years have likely done more damage to Canada's national cohesion than this echo chamber of mostly ex/serving service members realizes (I say echo chamber in the context of service before self). There is a reason people who can often seek contracts and employment in the US, see Czech_pivo's comments on this or any sports/entertainment/music star.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1902491741711970389

 

[Czech_pivo]

Good questions. I have no input on that.

I just wanted to add to your first comment that if we see the kind of trend below continue, a lot more people are going to be looking for better outcomes. And if Canada refuses to correct course while others are putting offers on the table that might materially change people's lives for the better, then there is a real risk of Canada fracturing one way or another. Loyalty goes both ways, and a government ought to look after its' own lest those people become significantly dissatisfied. The last nine years have likely done more damage to Canada's national cohesion than this echo chamber of mostly ex/serving service members realizes (I say echo chamber in the context of service before self). There is a reason people who can often seek contracts and employment in the US, see Czech_pivo's comments on this or any sports/entertainment/music star.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1902491741711970389

Just brutal - utterly brutal.

 

[QV]

Just brutal - utterly brutal.

You don't think if our economy and people's future is wrecked that a lot won't be looking for options? That is just reality. Like it or not. There are a lot of things I don't like or agree with, but can't control. And to be clear that is not me.

People leave Canada now for better employment opportunities, and that is usually just niche or high earners. If the economy is crashing, that disaffection number will grow especially if just across the border they are prospering.

From a year ago:

Secret RCMP report warns Canadians may revolt once they realize how broke they are

The RCMP report authors warn that whatever Canada’s current situation, it "will probably deteriorate further in the next five years."

nationalpost.com

 

[Czech_pivo]

You don't think if our economy and people's future is wrecked that a lot won't be looking for options? That is just reality. Like it or not. There are a lot of things I don't like or agree with, but can't control. And to be clear that is not me.

People leave Canada now for better employment opportunities, and that is usually just niche or high earners. If the economy is crashing, that disaffection number will grow especially if just across the border they are prospering.

I'm well well aware of this.
I left Canada (Windsor, ON) in 93 (unemployment in Windsor averaged 11.5% in 1993, down from 12.5% in 1992) for my MA in Belgium and Holland and never came back until the end of 2000 - and that was primarily because my wife decided to go back to university at the age of 30 in a MA in speech pathology at U of Toronto, It was about 25% of the cost of a comparable university in Boston where we were living. We stayed afterwards because she liked living in Toronto (go figure) and we both thought that raising kids in Canada (with them attending French Immersion because we believe in bilingualism) was the better option. And so, here I am 25yrs later still living in Canada - with the knowledge that in terms of straight dollars and cents that I would have more money in my pocket if I had stayed in the US and not come home. I have no regrets with that. I love that my wife was able to spend 12-13 months at home with each of our children when they were born instead of having to go back to work after 3 months. I appreciate the opportunity that my kids had to learn the foundations of a 2nd language from grades 1 to 12 at the same level of professionalism if they had gone to 'English only' school, all at no addition cost. I love that I lived in a neighbourhood where my kids walked to both primary and secondary schools and that they never experienced an 'active school shooter'. I could go on and on.

Windsor Ontario routinely has the highest unemployment (currently 2nd highest at 9.4%) in all of Canada (has been like that for the last 30+yrs) and besides Auto's, its next biggest export is talented people - both within Canada and around the world. I have too many former classmates and friends from Windsor who no longer live in Canada because of dire economic opportunities in the past or because of more lucrative opportunities elsewhere.

I'm not so certain that its just 'niche or high earners' that leave. My social circle covers/includes people of all walks of life economically who left Canada. Obviously one must have a certain talent, skill set that opens the door to leaving.

So what we tend to do here in Canada is allow this flow of emigrees to continue and we try to offset it be bringing in 'replacement' talent from India or Pakistan or China or South Africa. How's that been working out of us over the last 30yrs? Personally when I read reports about Carney that he's an 'elitist' or 'he's too wealthy and out of touch with Canada' or 'he left Canada and he doesn't understand it' - I'm disgusted by this small ball, close minded, hick mentally. In my 7yrs of being outside of Canada, that was the BEST time to fully learn about Canada, what it means to be a Canadian. To look at the countries problems/issues/strengths from an outsiders viewpoint, as well as having previously an 'insiders' view allows for a complete picture to be formed.

So I 'get' why people leave, 100%. Its the old phase, 'Its the economy stupid'. (and I'm not calling you, anyone here, stupid.)

 

[QV]

It sounds like you might agree with me that should the trend continue down, we in Canada would see the situation you describe worsen.

I suggest there is a point in that worsening that would lead to a fracture of the country.

How is my other comment so utterly brutal?

 

[Czech_pivo]

It sounds like you might agree with me that should the trend continue down, we in Canada would see the situation you describe worsen.

I suggest there is a point in that worsening that would lead to a fracture of the country.

How is my other comment so utterly brutal?

The brutal comment was in reference to the OECD chart - how brutal we've done over those 10yrs.

The situation could get even worse than it currently is if places like the EU or even the US start to actively 'recruit' our higher middle class and upper class wage earners. Especially if they start to recruit those around 27-37yrs old, in the beginnings of the prime earning years and child bearing years. If you pull large numbers of them that will further exasperate the issue when they are removed then from the 55-65yr wage earning cohort of income tax payers -

 

[QV]

The brutal comment was in reference to the OECD chart - how brutal we've done over those 10yrs.

The situation could get even worse than it currently is if places like the EU or even the US start to actively 'recruit' our higher middle class and upper class wage earners. Especially if they start to recruit those around 27-37yrs old, in the beginnings of the prime earning years and child bearing years. If you pull large numbers of them that will further exasperate the issue when they are removed then from the 55-65yr wage earning cohort of income tax payers -

Ah my apologies. I was reacting as though I was being attacked for my position - an occasional occurrence here.

 

[lenaitch]

Former MP wants to explore Alberta's future with U.S. - Medicine Hat News

@@CollinGallant Medicine Hat’s former Member of Parliament is part of a group hoping to open direct talks with U.S President Donald Trump about Alberta’s future, and is also now calling for a provincial independence referendum this year. LaVar Payne is listed among the attendees of a press...

medicinehatnews.com

I have a question regarding the possibility of, say, Alberta holding a referendum on joining the United States. First off, I don’t think most Albertans would vote to join the U.S. for a variety of reasons. But let’s say they did. (After January 6th, most Americans thought Trump would never be back as President).

So my question involves legalities and our First Nations. Seeing how they have numerous treaties with the Government of Canada, would they have to accept the will of the majority of Albertans and secede from Canada? Or would FN reserves still remain in Canada whereas only patches of non-reserve lands would join the U.S.?

Certainly not a constitutional scholar but I suspect the Alberta FNs would adopt a similar argument that they did during the referendum era in Quebec; that their allegiance was to the Crown and, if Quebec wanted to secede, it had to go out the door the same way it came in upon Confederation - as Lower Canada, roughly this (absent current day Labrador, and ignoring the fact that much of the Pontiac and Outaouais wanted no part of it).



Similarly, Alberta FNs might argue that Alberta would get to go out the door in the same state it came in. In its case, it was after Confederation but the first 'entity' of Alberta was this is 1870:



The FNs might constantly spar with the feds but they know it acknowledges at least the letters of treaties if not their spirit, and that it has deep pockets.

 

[CBH99]

Former MP wants to explore Alberta's future with U.S. - Medicine Hat News

@@CollinGallant Medicine Hat’s former Member of Parliament is part of a group hoping to open direct talks with U.S President Donald Trump about Alberta’s future, and is also now calling for a provincial independence referendum this year. LaVar Payne is listed among the attendees of a press...

medicinehatnews.com

I have a question regarding the possibility of, say, Alberta holding a referendum on joining the United States. First off, I don’t think most Albertans would vote to join the U.S. for a variety of reasons. But let’s say they did. (After January 6th, most Americans thought Trump would never be back as President).

So my question involves legalities and our First Nations. Seeing how they have numerous treaties with the Government of Canada, would they have to accept the will of the majority of Albertans and secede from Canada? Or would FN reserves still remain in Canada whereas only patches of non-reserve lands would join the U.S.?

No constitutional law expert here either, and certainly no expert on current FM affairs.

But I wonder if First Nations located within the geographic areas that are separating would be affected at all in such a way, given all of those treasures that exist.

As things stand now, they can walk across the Canada/US border as they please as long as they have their status card & are covered under Treaty 6...

So if they can already cross the border at all, whether they have a passport or not, I'm not sure if Alberta becoming American one day suddenly changes anything for them, really?

 

[QV]

VDH says it best. Specifically about Canada at the 17min mark. But the whole hour is worth a listen.

 

[daftandbarmy]

VDH says it best. Specifically about Canada at the 17min mark. But the whole hour is worth a listen.

I enjoyed watching VDH at one point in time because it seemed like he was trying to 'rationally' explain the Republican position.

Now he seems to have degenerated into an over enthusiastic, besotted cheerleader and is such a bore....

 

[lenaitch]

No constitutional law expert here either, and certainly no expert on current FM affairs.

But I wonder if First Nations located within the geographic areas that are separating would be affected at all in such a way, given all of those treasures that exist.

As things stand now, they can walk across the Canada/US border as they please as long as they have their status card & are covered under Treaty 6...

So if they can already cross the border at all, whether they have a passport or not, I'm not sure if Alberta becoming American one day suddenly changes anything for them, really?

It might not, but I think the "as it stands now" bit is key. First Nations/American Indians can cross the border pretty much at will under the Jay Treaty. However, we know what the current Administration thinks of treaties. Currently in Canada, FNs have court and legislated protection when it comes to resource development ('free, prior and informed consent'). I don't see that happening under US authority. I'm not sure the US has bought into the 'traditional territory' concept.

 

[The Bread Guy]

I'm not sure the US has bought into the 'traditional territory' concept.

In some circles in the US, they’d say you spelled “conquered nations” wrong when it comes to their FNs.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Interesting takes from some academics via The Canadian Press - also archived here.

From the piece: