U.S. medals for slain soldiers

[RoyalHighlander]

Bronze Star awarded to four killed Canadians

By CP

TORONTO -- The U.S. army has approved awarding the Bronze Star medal to the four Canadians killed by a U.S. bomb last year in Afghanistan, CBC-TV‘s The National reported yesterday.

The Bronze Star is normally awarded for heroism or meritorious service.

The medals were sent to the U.S. Embassy in Ottawa last month but Foreign Affairs said it has not been formally contacted.

The soldiers from the Edmonton-based Princess Patricia‘s Canadian Light Infantry were killed in an April 17, 2002, incident in Afghanistan after being bombed by a U.S. military pilot who thought he was under fire from enemy forces.

Killed were Sgt. Marc Leger of Lancaster, Ont., Cpl. Ainsworth Dyer of Montreal, Pte. Nathan Smith of Ostrea Lake, N.S., and Pte. Ricky Green of Mill Cove, N.S.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Why wouldn‘t they get the Purple Heart, instead? It is awarded for getting wounded or killed. No disrespect intended to the killed soldiers, but the act of getting killed should not be considered an act of bravery or meritorious service. The PH would be appropriate if the Americans really feel the need to make some sort of the peace offering.

The Bronze Star (with V for Valor) should have gone to the snipers to whom it was originally intended, on the other hand, for their "meritorious service" in actual combat.

 

[Gunner]

I think the awarding of the Bronze star to four soldiers killed in a training accident/fratricide incident is ludicrous. Honour the fallen for who they were not who they are being made out to be.

 

[Korus]

The bronze star is an award that can be given to foreign soldiers fighting alongside Americans, as well as to Americans themselves. It is possible that the Purple Heart is strictly for Americans only..

 

[Anderson56]

Actually, I believe that the Purple Heart is only to be awarded for a wound inflicted by the enemy. Hence - no purple heart for friendly fire.

 

[Anderson56]

As to the comment about the snipers - I read today that the Americans have 26 other medals they want to present to Canadians, including the snipers.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Good point, Anderson, about the PH. I had quite forgotten.

Thanks also for the update on the other 26. I hope it comes to pass.

 

[Anderson56]

Yes, me too Michael - they deserve the recognition. A friend of mine knows the garrison commander at Fort Campbell, who told him that the 101st hold the Patricias in very high regard

 

[Jarnhamar]

I have to agree with Michael Dorosh. All matters of respect for the dead aside, i don‘t consider dying to be considered an act of bravery. If there is a medal for getting wounded or dying in combat they sure give it to them. But bravery is different.
Have the americans awarded the broze star to their own soldiers who were killed by friendly fire or have died in accidents?

I‘m not sure the details (i think this is in reference to what Michael was saying) but wasn‘t there a situation where canadian snipers exposed themselves to enemy fire while engaging some machinegun positions (or something) that were shooting up an american company from the 101st. The OC of the american unit said the canadians pretty much saved the company from a very high casualty rate as they were pinned down by very effective fire. Thats bravery.

 

[stivic923]

hey guys....i havent really been keeping up to date on that issue concerning the hopped up pilots from the states..what is going to happen to them?

I also agree that receiving a medal of bravery for dying is a crock. How is the deceased soldiers wife and kids supposed to do with that? "Oh this is a medal my husband received for bravery when he was killed over in Afghanistan"
I myself believe that there wasnt a single soldier on that field that was brave when the bomb started falling. I think they were all scared sh*tless, if they even had time for that.
Something I would like to see is those pilots removed from active forces, and to see them personally apologize to the families, and maybe some sort of compensation for the families loss.
Not a bloody medal :rage:

 

[Fishbone Jones]

While not replacing the soldiers, medals become a source of pride and remeberence for the surviving family members. Whatever other compensation comes out of this, I think the medals will help the families in closure. Who cares who gives them or what they are. Every little bit helps. I think rather than argue about who should get what, a better question would be, what else can we and the Canadian gov‘t do for the families. Short of the miserley, standard pension, Cretin and the boys have forgotten the incident. No more photo ops to be had. BTW, whether it was found acceptable to some or not, the families received and accepteted a public apology from both pilots at the end of the hearing. I also think that the pilot‘s careers have effectively stopped and will not be restarted. $hit happens in war, you can‘t prosecute every mistake. Would the hue and cry be as vocal had they been Canadian pilots? I‘m sure MD could site you numerous examples of non prosecuted fratricide by our own in various conflicts.

 

[jrhume]

Recceguy,

Thanks for your measured response.

While I‘m not sure any medal should be awarded to the families of the soldiers killed in the accident, I agree with your argument about closure.

The Bronze Star is awarded for lots of things, not just bravery. I suspect the Army wanted to do something for the families and since the Purple Heart either isn‘t appropriate or can‘t be awarded to non-US troops, the Bronze Star was the only other medal available.

Blue on blue incidents are part of war. We happen to know a lot more about them than we used to, but they‘ll never go away until war does.

Jim

 

[muskrat89]

Two great responses! It is nice to see intellect and reason shine through emotion now and then...granted a topic like this is bound to evoke a visceral response, but many topics around here never warrant the blustery responses...

 

[Jungle]

Maybe someone can confirm, but I think there is something called the "soldier medal" and it is awarded for a number of things, whether in combat or not. Again it may be a US pers only medal...

 

[Recce41]

There is two types for the Bronze and Silver Star.
1. Is for Valor, but not for anything that deserved the CMH. this one will have a V on it.
2. Is for duty in service of country, this can be given to foreign personal if under US command.
I got this from a buddy down in Bragg, Most of the time you see officers with it. Its like the I was on tour, medal. he said it did mean a lot before.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Ok, but what makes the service of the dead soldiers any more "meritorious" than the sergeant section commander who had part of his leg blown away - but he continues on as an instructor, serving his Regiment and his country? I agree with the sentiments, but wasn‘t the Silver Cross already awarded to the families?

 

[Gunner]

Yes, the silver cross was awarded to mothers, wives, fiancee‘s and girlfriends of the deceased.

 

[Recce41]

I‘m talking about the Bronze Star and Silver Star of the US Military. I outline why the Bronze Star is given.
The Silver Star is just one higher in the medal pool.
I have a book of US awards and Decorations I‘m trying to find. It gives details.
I was not talking about the Silver Cross. It is only given to mothers and Grand Mothers if no living mother. NOT GIRLFRIENDS.

 

[Danjanou]

Here‘s the criteria for awarding some of the medals suggested. This is from Medals of the World

http://www.medals.org.uk/index.htm

Soldiers Medal
http://www.medals.org.uk/usa/usa043.htm

Purple Heart
http://www.medals.org.uk/usa/usa011.htm

Bronze Star
http://www.medals.org.uk/usa/usa047.htm

It would seem to me that both the Soldiers Medal and the Purple Heart are more appropriate in this case. Cpl Dyer‘s father has refused the Brone Star as per the front page in Yesterday‘s Toronto Sun.

As noted closure is perhaps the most important thing remaining in this tragic incident.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Exactly, closure is what‘s needed. Without belittleing the sacrifice of the soldiers and families involved, we risk the public (and some members of the military) turning them into martyrs. This will only lead to long term angst (for our compatriots to the south) and anger amongst our own. Leading to distrust on both sides amongst professional warriors. Left to fester, it will be brought up, during drunken bouts, whenever and where ever we have to work together. This is neither good for the end mission nor the one at hand. I‘ll say it again, $hit happens. Mourn their loss, for the appropriate period, then get on with it. Without knowing them personally, I think that this may be the way they might have felt as professionals. As to which medals have been offered for award, I‘m sure the US, whether it be JAG or their comparable DHH, and the little bully de Shawinigan, have determined the appropriate award. The family accepts or rejects, that‘s their decision, I don‘t see where it‘s open for discussion here.