U.S. Military Deserters in Canada Megathread
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Just saw this on CityTV a few minutes ago
http://www.pulse24.com/News/Top_Story/20050324-015/page.asp
Things have changed in Canada since the Vietnam era. Jeremy Hinzman found that out the hard way Thursday, after the U.S. soldier lost a bid for refugee status and was ordered sent back home.
Hinzman is an American army deserter who fled across the border just days before his regiment was scheduled to leave for the war in Iraq.
He called the conflict â Å“illegalâ ? and claimed that meant it wasn't against the law to refuse to fight in it. And he insisted he'd face persecution across the border if he were forced back.
But the Immigration and Refugee Board refused his application to remain here, claiming the A.W.O.L. soldier didn't make his case.
"Mr. Hinzman is disappointed," admits his lawyer, Jeffry House, in something of an understatement.
Judges had previously warned the officer his views on the war weren't enough to support his claim.
Hinzman will likely pay a steep price for his decision to flee. He faces court martial in the U.S. and could get at least five years in jail. But the army may decide to come down even harder on him because he chose to run and was vocal about his position.
The decision doesn't bode well for 12 other clients of House â “ they're in the same legal boat as Hinzman, and the decision could well mean they'll be sailing back across the border to face their own punishment soon.
During the Vietnam war in the 1960s, Canada became a haven for many who also insisted they were fleeing an immoral conflict. But the political climate and the laws were different, and they were allowed to stay virtually unchallenged.
The U.S. has since granted almost all of those who chose to avoid that draft clemency, ending a long and bitter divide that lasted several decades.
I hope this send a message, don't come here, we don't want you!!
http://www.pulse24.com/News/Top_Story/20050324-015/page.asp
Things have changed in Canada since the Vietnam era. Jeremy Hinzman found that out the hard way Thursday, after the U.S. soldier lost a bid for refugee status and was ordered sent back home.
Hinzman is an American army deserter who fled across the border just days before his regiment was scheduled to leave for the war in Iraq.
He called the conflict â Å“illegalâ ? and claimed that meant it wasn't against the law to refuse to fight in it. And he insisted he'd face persecution across the border if he were forced back.
But the Immigration and Refugee Board refused his application to remain here, claiming the A.W.O.L. soldier didn't make his case.
"Mr. Hinzman is disappointed," admits his lawyer, Jeffry House, in something of an understatement.
Judges had previously warned the officer his views on the war weren't enough to support his claim.
Hinzman will likely pay a steep price for his decision to flee. He faces court martial in the U.S. and could get at least five years in jail. But the army may decide to come down even harder on him because he chose to run and was vocal about his position.
The decision doesn't bode well for 12 other clients of House â “ they're in the same legal boat as Hinzman, and the decision could well mean they'll be sailing back across the border to face their own punishment soon.
During the Vietnam war in the 1960s, Canada became a haven for many who also insisted they were fleeing an immoral conflict. But the political climate and the laws were different, and they were allowed to stay virtually unchallenged.
The U.S. has since granted almost all of those who chose to avoid that draft clemency, ending a long and bitter divide that lasted several decades.
I hope this send a message, don't come here, we don't want you!!
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TORONTO (CP) - An American war dodger who fled the U.S. military because he believed the invasion of Iraq was criminal has lost his bid for refugee status in Canada in a case closely watched on both sides of the border.
In a written ruling released Thursday, the Immigration and Refugee Board said Jeremy Hinzman had not made a convincing argument that he faced persecution in the United States.
Also denied asylum was Hinzman's wife and pre-school son.
"Removal to the U.S. would not subject them personally to a risk to their lives or to a risk of cruel and unusual treatment or punishment," the board decided.
"There are no substantial grounds to believe that their removal to the U.S. will subject them personally to a danger of torture."
There was no immediate comment from Hinzman but his lawyer Jeffry House said he was "disappointed" and would ask the Federal Court to review the decision.
"I'm hopeful, and there's a reasonably good chance that, in the long run, we'll be successful," House said in an interview.
Hinzman, 26, deserted his regiment in January 2004, just days before being deployed to Iraq.
During his three-day refugee hearing in December, he said any violent acts he would have committed had he gone to Iraq would have amounted to an atrocity because the war itself was illegal.
He said the U.S. military regarded all Arabs in the Middle East - Iraqis in particular - as potential terrorists to be eliminated and were referred to as "savages."
His case was bolstered by a former United States marine, who said trigger-happy American soldiers in Iraq killed unarmed women and children, and murdered other Iraqis, in violation of international law.
Adjudicator Brian Goodman had previously ruled the soldier's view of the legality of the war on Iraq could not be used to support his refugee claim.
That meant Goodman's view was only "partially informed because he didn't hear that evidence," House said.
As a deserter, Hinzman faces court martial if he returns to the United States and a potential five-year jail term.
A federal government lawyer said U.S. military deserters are normally sentenced to one year, but Hinzman said he would be treated more harshly because of his views on the Iraq war.
In any event, he said previously, having to serve even one day in prison would be too long because he was being prosecuted for acting on a political belief and for refusing to comply with an illegal order.
"Hinzman has brought forward no evidence to support his allegation that he would not be accorded the full protection of the law pursuant to the court-martial process," Goodman wrote.
"The U.S. has in place military regulations that allow for both exemption from military service and for alternative, non-combatant service for persons who can invoke genuine reasons of conscience."
While Hinzman was the first, about half-a-dozen other American soldiers are also believed to be trying to gain refugee status in Canada and as many as 100 may be in the country.
The group War Resisters Support Campaign planned a rally in Toronto on Thursday to press its demand the government allow U.S. war resisters to stay in Canada.
"We're disappointed but not surprised," said spokesman Lee Zaslofsky.
"We believe that in the end, Canada will do the right thing and allow these courageous young men to stay."
Hinzman, whose only prior knowledge of Canada was CBC radio broadcasts, has admitted that seeking asylum in Canada was seemingly "preposterous."
He enlisted voluntarily in the U.S. army for four years in November 2000, planning to have the military later pay for his university education.
He worked his way up to the rank of specialist, and was a crack infantryman with the 82nd Airborne Division based in Fort Bragg, N.C., until he deserted.
He served in a non-combatant role in Afghanistan, where his application as a conscientious objector was refused.
God i'm so proud to be a
In a written ruling released Thursday, the Immigration and Refugee Board said Jeremy Hinzman had not made a convincing argument that he faced persecution in the United States.
Also denied asylum was Hinzman's wife and pre-school son.
"Removal to the U.S. would not subject them personally to a risk to their lives or to a risk of cruel and unusual treatment or punishment," the board decided.
"There are no substantial grounds to believe that their removal to the U.S. will subject them personally to a danger of torture."
There was no immediate comment from Hinzman but his lawyer Jeffry House said he was "disappointed" and would ask the Federal Court to review the decision.
"I'm hopeful, and there's a reasonably good chance that, in the long run, we'll be successful," House said in an interview.
Hinzman, 26, deserted his regiment in January 2004, just days before being deployed to Iraq.
During his three-day refugee hearing in December, he said any violent acts he would have committed had he gone to Iraq would have amounted to an atrocity because the war itself was illegal.
He said the U.S. military regarded all Arabs in the Middle East - Iraqis in particular - as potential terrorists to be eliminated and were referred to as "savages."
His case was bolstered by a former United States marine, who said trigger-happy American soldiers in Iraq killed unarmed women and children, and murdered other Iraqis, in violation of international law.
Adjudicator Brian Goodman had previously ruled the soldier's view of the legality of the war on Iraq could not be used to support his refugee claim.
That meant Goodman's view was only "partially informed because he didn't hear that evidence," House said.
As a deserter, Hinzman faces court martial if he returns to the United States and a potential five-year jail term.
A federal government lawyer said U.S. military deserters are normally sentenced to one year, but Hinzman said he would be treated more harshly because of his views on the Iraq war.
In any event, he said previously, having to serve even one day in prison would be too long because he was being prosecuted for acting on a political belief and for refusing to comply with an illegal order.
"Hinzman has brought forward no evidence to support his allegation that he would not be accorded the full protection of the law pursuant to the court-martial process," Goodman wrote.
"The U.S. has in place military regulations that allow for both exemption from military service and for alternative, non-combatant service for persons who can invoke genuine reasons of conscience."
While Hinzman was the first, about half-a-dozen other American soldiers are also believed to be trying to gain refugee status in Canada and as many as 100 may be in the country.
The group War Resisters Support Campaign planned a rally in Toronto on Thursday to press its demand the government allow U.S. war resisters to stay in Canada.
"We're disappointed but not surprised," said spokesman Lee Zaslofsky.
"We believe that in the end, Canada will do the right thing and allow these courageous young men to stay."
Hinzman, whose only prior knowledge of Canada was CBC radio broadcasts, has admitted that seeking asylum in Canada was seemingly "preposterous."
He enlisted voluntarily in the U.S. army for four years in November 2000, planning to have the military later pay for his university education.
He worked his way up to the rank of specialist, and was a crack infantryman with the 82nd Airborne Division based in Fort Bragg, N.C., until he deserted.
He served in a non-combatant role in Afghanistan, where his application as a conscientious objector was refused.
God i'm so proud to be a
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Darn it thats twice now, they gotta put the fresh stuff in a different forum so we can keep on top of it lol. Cheers!
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Caesar said:
Yeah, I know he will not go to Gitmo, most likely Fort LeavenWorth actually, but it sounded sooooo much better. Give a guy a break, I did a drama class in grade 11 ya know ;D
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Send your condolences here:
support@jeremyhinzman.net
He didn't appreciate my offer of a ride to the border. >
support@jeremyhinzman.net
He didn't appreciate my offer of a ride to the border. >
The first time I heard about the Hinzman case I felt pretty much the same way: Face your responsibilities, this is what you agreed to. After reading the article about him in the Saturday post, however, I realized it's not that simple. He became a Quaker after joining the army. Quaker's do not believe in taking a life for any reason. As he said, "I didn't want to go out some chickenshit way," which means he didn't do anything that would get him kicked out. Instead he applied for conscientous-objector status. According to Hinzman, the army screwed around with his application, then eventually denied it. He tried again. Eventually he ran to Canada.
To me he's not quite the asshole I first thought. He tried to do this the right way. I'm not saying that I agree with him, but the issure isn't as clear-cut as I first thought. It's an interesting article for anyone who wants the whole story before forming their own opinion.
Cheers.
To me he's not quite the asshole I first thought. He tried to do this the right way. I'm not saying that I agree with him, but the issure isn't as clear-cut as I first thought. It's an interesting article for anyone who wants the whole story before forming their own opinion.
Cheers.
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Wow another waste of tax paying money. I dont care if he is a quaker or the gosh darn queen of england. He signed on the dotted line and then decided to chicken out, after getting all the benefits he could from the army. Send him back and let him rot in jail. Others went to war and lost their lives, i'm sure their families would love to hear his sob story. >
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Enami said:
Right not because he is weak kneed, got his free education and when the time came to pay up he bolted. He VOLUNTEERED for the army, he also VOLUNTEERED for airborne training. It was only after being posted to the 82nd Airborne and learning he was going to the STAN did he suddenly become a pacifist. I don't know about you but there is nothing more chickenshit the deserting in a time of war. Hell faking an injury or even giving ones self a self inflicted injury, while still despicable if found out, is a lot better that deserting.
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Quit trying to analyse the poser. He tried for a free ride, got called on it, and chickened out. All the peripheral shit, Quaker, conscientious objector, etc is bullshit. He just didn't have the parts and can't admit it. Let him try explain it to his grandkids. If he has the balls to have any. It's his shame to live with, not ours to discern or debate.
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Decision slammed as pro-war
By KEVIN CONNOR, Toronto Sun
SUPPORTERS of a U.S. soldier who deserted because he opposed the war in Iraq say Canada's Immigration and Refugee Board has legitimized an illegal war by refusing to grant the man refugee status. Jeremy Hinzman, 26, was the first of several U.S. deserters to file asylum claims in Canada. He fled the 82nd Airborne Division two years ago and sought refugee status in Canada.
"The immigration board ignored the fact it is an illegal war. They refused to offer protection to the men who won't become a criminal, a murderer for George W. Bush," Lee Zaslofsky, who came to Toronto in 1970 to avoid the Vietnam draft, said at a protest yesterday at the University Ave. courthouse.
These U.S. soldiers have the support of the Canadian population, said Caroline Egan with the War Resisters Support Campaign.
"We are saddened by the news and the narrow interpretation of the refugee claim," she said.
"This decision is just the first step in our legal process and we will continue on to help these men of conscience who have refused to fight."
The immigration board has bought into U.S. propaganda, said Darrell Anderson, 22, who was in the U.S. army and fled to Canada from Kentucky last Christmas while on leave from Iraq.
"I believed in the lies. I believed in my country. Then I saw the murder of innocent people who didn't want us there," said Anderson, who has a pending refugee claim in Canada. "The best way to support the troops is to bring them home."
http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/TorontoSun/News/2005/03/25/972058-sun.html
These people make me ill!
"These U.S. soldiers have the support of the Canadian population, said Caroline Egan with the War Resisters Support Campaign"
They do not have mine!
Slim
By KEVIN CONNOR, Toronto Sun
SUPPORTERS of a U.S. soldier who deserted because he opposed the war in Iraq say Canada's Immigration and Refugee Board has legitimized an illegal war by refusing to grant the man refugee status. Jeremy Hinzman, 26, was the first of several U.S. deserters to file asylum claims in Canada. He fled the 82nd Airborne Division two years ago and sought refugee status in Canada.
"The immigration board ignored the fact it is an illegal war. They refused to offer protection to the men who won't become a criminal, a murderer for George W. Bush," Lee Zaslofsky, who came to Toronto in 1970 to avoid the Vietnam draft, said at a protest yesterday at the University Ave. courthouse.
These U.S. soldiers have the support of the Canadian population, said Caroline Egan with the War Resisters Support Campaign.
"We are saddened by the news and the narrow interpretation of the refugee claim," she said.
"This decision is just the first step in our legal process and we will continue on to help these men of conscience who have refused to fight."
The immigration board has bought into U.S. propaganda, said Darrell Anderson, 22, who was in the U.S. army and fled to Canada from Kentucky last Christmas while on leave from Iraq.
"I believed in the lies. I believed in my country. Then I saw the murder of innocent people who didn't want us there," said Anderson, who has a pending refugee claim in Canada. "The best way to support the troops is to bring them home."
http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/TorontoSun/News/2005/03/25/972058-sun.html
These people make me ill!
"These U.S. soldiers have the support of the Canadian population, said Caroline Egan with the War Resisters Support Campaign"
They do not have mine!
Slim
Jarnhamar
Army.ca Myth
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I got a kick out of him being sent home. Honestly I'm surprised as hell. I'm not going to be a dummy and send him an email "HAHA U R a fag i hope you die in prison" bla bla bla. Thats weak. He's going home, good.
If this guy honestly had this huge change of perspective, found a god, wants to be a pacifist or whatever then thats good for him. I respect that and if it's not just some ploy then I respect his decision to stand up for what he believes in.
Be that as it may, he still took "some chickenshit way". Instead of standing up for what he believes in, he ran away.
respect = zero.
I think the draft was bullshit. Make me fight for something I don't believe in? thats shit. This guy volunteered. Yes he had a change of heart. He should have took responsibility, did his time and left the army all the wiser.
First thing you learn as a soldier. if you make a mistake you don't hide it, you don't run from it, you own up to it.
If this guy honestly had this huge change of perspective, found a god, wants to be a pacifist or whatever then thats good for him. I respect that and if it's not just some ploy then I respect his decision to stand up for what he believes in.
Be that as it may, he still took "some chickenshit way". Instead of standing up for what he believes in, he ran away.
respect = zero.
I think the draft was bullshit. Make me fight for something I don't believe in? thats shit. This guy volunteered. Yes he had a change of heart. He should have took responsibility, did his time and left the army all the wiser.
First thing you learn as a soldier. if you make a mistake you don't hide it, you don't run from it, you own up to it.
A
aesop081
Guest
Unfortunately this guy will walk among us for quite some time after this decision. I'm sure that his lawyers will appeal this as far as they can, wasting our tax dollars and our cout's time the whole way. I had a good chuckle at the article that was quoting a woman saying that he head the support of the Canadian people, he certainly doesn't have mine as i wrote him to offer a ride to Ft. Levenworth and i doubt you could find much support for him here. I hope that the news of this decision is all over the news in the US as a deterent to any other "war resisters".
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