U.S. Military Weapons Inscribed With Secret 'Jesus' Bible Codes

[PMedMoe]

And here's the modification kit:

;D

Seriously, I can understand the importance of not having these references on the weapons and IMHO, it has nothing to do with the soldiers' beliefs.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Yes, because if I ever wound up with a bullet or three in me, well that would be pretty bad.  But if I found out the sight used to do it with had "Man U forever" in teeny tiny letters, boy, I'd be pissed.

 

[Kilo_302]

I'll say it again reeeeaaaal slow,  t h e  s a m e  s o l d i e r s  w h o  g e t  p a i d  w i t h  "I n  G o d W e  T r u s t " o n  t h e i r  c a s h ?


Did you sound that out alright?..........and your answer would be?

I think we all realize that Canada and the United States once had a predominantly Christian identity, and perhaps in many ways we still do. The leaders of our nations are mostly Christian by their own admission, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with this. It follows that many of our legal, political and cultural traditions contain Christian ideas and references. I accept this. But this situation is different. Surely you can see the contrast between something that was originally printed on currency hundreds of years ago and a modern defense contractor inscribing religious references on optics that are being used  in a war against religious extremism. 

Mr Monkhouse, your tone on this thread has been belligerent, and for no good cause. I think you and I might agree on many issues, and clearly disagree on others. Your profile states " PROFANITY IS THE INABILITY OF A FEEBLE MIND TO FULLY EXPRESS ITSELF!!!." To that I would add needless insults and sarcasm. If you can't take part in an adult debate, perhaps it is fitting that you share your profile photo with "Big Bird."

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I think we all realize that Canada and the United States once had a predominantly Christian identity, and perhaps in many ways we still do. The leaders of our nations are mostly Christian by their own admission, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with this. It follows that many of our legal, political and cultural traditions contain Christian ideas and references. I accept this. But this situation is different. Surely you can see the contrast between something that was originally printed on currency hundreds of years ago and a modern defense contractor inscribing religious references on optics that are being used  in a war against religious extremism. 

Mr Monkhouse, your tone on this thread has been belligerent, and for no good cause. I think you and I might agree on many issues, and clearly disagree on others. Your profile states " PROFANITY IS THE INABILITY OF A FEEBLE MIND TO FULLY EXPRESS ITSELF!!!." To that I would add needless insults and sarcasm. If you can't take part in an adult debate, perhaps it is fitting that you share your profile photo with "Big Bird."

Nice personal attack. Go take a pill and pull in your neck.

First and last warning.

Milnet.ca Staff

 

[1feral1]

The Aussie media's sickening spin http://www.news.com.au/national/row-over-biblical-weapons-in-afghanistan/story-e6frfkw0-1225822373759

Row over 'biblical' weapons in Afghanistan
By Brendan Nicholson From: The Australian, AFP January 22, 2010 7:32AM 226 commentsIncrease Text Size Decrease Text Size Print Email Share Add to Digg Add to del.icio.us Add to Facebook Add to Kwoff Add to Myspace Add to Newsvine What are these? 
Australian soldiers are using gunsights with biblical references etched on to them as they fight in Afghanistan. Picture: Gary Ramage Source: The Daily Telegraph
Aussie soldiers using controversial gunsights
Fears revelations will anger religious groups
Moves underway to remove references

AUSTRALIAN special forces soldiers are using gunsights with biblical references etched on to them as they fight the Taliban insurgency in Afghanistan.

The Australian Defence Force has several hundred of the sights, which are prized by elite troops for their accuracy over long range, The Australian reports.

Their use by US, British and New Zealand troops has raised alarm among military leaders that it could reinforce views among extremists that the West is waging a crusade against Islam.

The ADF is investigating how to remove biblical references etched on to gunsights, without damaging the weapons.

The ADF and military authorities in the US, Britain and elsewhere thought the letters and numbers on the sights were simply stock or model numbers until a US soldier in Afghanistan complained to the Military Religious Freedom Foundation that the initials referred to passage from the Bible.

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Related CoverageThe Australian: Defence latest End of sidebar. Return to start of sidebar.
One example was JN8:12 which turned out to be a reference to chapter eight, verse 12 in the Book of John: "When Jesus spoke again to the people he said 'I am the light of the world' ".

" 'Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but will have the light of life'."

While coalition soldiers were unaware of the significance of the initials, military officials quickly became alarmed that religious extremists could take some propaganda advantage from them being proof the West was waging a crusader war against Islam.

The ADF confirmed yesterday it had been unaware of the meaning of the inscription when the sights were issued to troops.

"The Department of Defence was unaware of the significance of the manufacturer's serial number," the spokesman said.

"The sights were procured because they provide mature technology which is highly reliable, in wide use by our allies and best meet Defence requirements. Soldiers are confident in the utility of the sight and the positive and proven effect which it is having on operations.

Meanwhile, the US firm responsible for the gunsights, Trijicon, has announced it was providing the military with kits to remove the biblical references.

The company said it would supply the military with 100 kits "to enable the removal of the references that are already on products that are currently deployed."

"Trijicon has proudly served the US military for more than two decades, and our decision to offer to voluntarily remove these references is both prudent and appropriate," Trijicon president and CEO Stephen Bindon said in a statement.

Read more of this story at The Australian

226 comments on this story

-------------------------------

Complete foolishness. Imagine that our governemnt is worried about offending our enemy, who at the best of times wants to cut our throats, chop off our heads, all recorded for Youtube.

Pathetic!

OWDU

 

[gcclarke]

Again, there is a big difference between worrying about "offending our enemy" and worrying about providing out enemy with ammunitition to use against us in their propoganda campaigns. We're worried about offending (or scaring) more moderate Muslims who might otherwise be less inclined to support the enemy. If the enemy is able to convince the average Muslim in the region that we actually are mounting a Crusade against Islam, then why wouldn't they join up to kill the infidel westerners, since clearly we'll come for them eventually.

 

[TheHead]

  How is that spinning the news?  The Aussie news is correct. The enemy can use these as propaganda. It has NOTHING to do with offending the enemy, where does it say that in the article I must have missed it. This could be  offending to Muslims of the nations we are in.  Bottom line is we don't need fuel to the fire for insurgent group recruitment. 

 

[Michael OLeary]

  How is that spinning the news?  The Aussie news is correct. The enemy can use these as propaganda. It has NOTHING to do with offending the enemy, where does it say that in the article I must have missed it. This could be  offending to Muslims of the nations we are in.  Bottom line is we don't need fuel to the fire for insurgent group recruitment.

Perhaps you missed this comment, which itself missed the point.

Complete foolishness. Imagine that our governemnt is worried about offending our enemy, who at the best of times wants to cut our throats, chop off our heads, all recorded for Youtube.

 

[gcclarke]

I fail to see how the enemy providing us with propaganda ammunition somehow makes it OK for us to return the favour.

 

[1feral1]

Perhaps you missed this comment, which itself missed the point.

You might think so, I don't. Sorry Mr O'Leary, I am not going to engage you, its just not worth it, and we both know it would be futile, as you're always right, or thats what you have me thinking anyways.
----------------------------------------

Now for others, who feel that we are at risk over these codes, I am sure collateral damage after a smart bomb strike causes much more unrest with the potential 'turn-coats' than this.

For those muslims that would turn on us over these 'secret inscription codes', they're too far gone already, that's my opinion, and it aint going to change.

WRT the below pic. This is not a secret biblical code, its in plain view. This is a pic taken of me at FOB Union III, Camp Al Tahweed, Karhk, Baghdad Sep 2006. No one complained then about this sort of thing then, and why now? A biblical reference is simply that, in a muslim country, at that time still filled with some rather angry extremists. With or without this sign, we still copped indrect fire way too often.

This sign was the last thing one seen when he left the wire, and I am sure there were many found strength in it. Perhaps there are others too, who find strength in the codes on the optics? Who knows?

Perhaps, our enemy can use this pic as a propaganda tool, although I am sure its been posted in a distant thread on this site already.

Now, just who are we fighting awyways?

We are fighting a war with muslim extremists, and there is more than one definition for the word crusade. This from google:

Definitions of crusade on the Web:

1. exert oneself continuously, vigorously, or obtrusively to gain an end or engage in a crusade for a certain cause or person; be an advocate for; "The liberal party pushed for reforms"; "She is crusading for women's rights"; "The Dean is pushing for his favorite candidate"

2. campaign: a series of actions advancing a principle or tending toward a particular end; "he supported populist campaigns"; "they worked in the ...

3. go on a crusade; fight a holy war

4. any of the more or less continuous military expeditions in the 11th to 13th centuries when Christian powers of Europe tried to recapture the Holy Land from the Muslims

I think para 2 sums up how I see the word fit into the current war we are fighting.

Regards,

OWDU

EDITed for spelling and clarification

 

[mariomike]

Thank you for the photo, Wes.

 

[1feral1]

Thank you for the photo, Wes.

Just don't use it against the 'west'.

;D

Cheers,

Wes

 

[1feral1]

  How is that spinning the news? 

Its spin because its unnecessary news, and they (the media) are trying and suceeding to create controversy, negativity, anti-war sentiment, and sell a story all at the expense of our troops. Shame on them.

IMHO, the modern media is one of our biggest enemies, with they're continual portraying and fueling some unfortunate incidents of the war (since 2001) has caused more coalition casualties by soliciting the enemy to act than a code on some optics. 

The codes are 'much ado about nothing' again in my opinion, but its just that, an opinion, and you and others don't have to agree.

Regards,

OWDU

 

[Fusaki]

As if the war in Iraq was going well in 2006?  :

My understanding is that until Petreaus took over as Commanding General in Jan 07, the place was a sh|t show.  One of the things that got him the job was his article from Oct 06, Learning Counterinsurgency: Observations from Soldiering in Iraq. I think his 9th Observation is relevant to this discussion: "Cultural awareness is a force multiplier."

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA486798&Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf

Milnews.ca's link is also work looking at again:

This, from Stars & Stripes: Gen. David Petraeus delivered a stinging criticism of the contractor that imprinted tiny Bible verse numbers on rifle sights used by American and NATO armed forces currently at war in Muslim countries.

 

[1feral1]

As if the war in Iraq was going well in 2006?  :

Where in God did I emphisise that??

I am not saying Iraq was going well in 2006, infact, many days there was more than enough trauma for all to share, and which many of us still live with right now (at times including me).

It was shooting war when I got there in late Aug 2006, and was still worsening when I left in late Mar 2007.

Baghdad was cauldron of bad news, and definatly was no tourist attraction, nor will be for a long long time.

---------------------

Wanna know what meanstream australians think? Go here and read the comments http://www.news.com.au/national/row-over-biblical-weapons-in-afghanistan/comments-e6frfkw0-1225822373759

Here is a handful......

Time to wake up of Brisbane Posted at 7:50 AM January 22, 2010
IS this political correctness gone mad. We have to change a weapon for fear of offending a group that we are in a military action against and their supporters. Surely this is a joke. Go ahead and carve whatever you want on the guns, bullets and anything else you have if you want.

Comment 2 of 226

Martin of Albury NSW Posted at 7:51 AM January 22, 2010
WE have too much time on our hands if we are worried about this . They are Gunsights , they are for killing , there is nothing more extreme than that . Point them at the enemy and pull the trigger - The ultimate discrimination

Comment 3 of 226

dean of Sydney Posted at 7:51 AM January 22, 2010
Have a whinge... why don't we just paint them pink and wrap them with pretty bows... these weapons have one purpose, who gives a damn if they have a bible reference in the serial number of a sight!!

Comment 4 of 226

CT of Wide bay Posted at 7:52 AM January 22, 2010
This is a joke. They also need to start dressing our soldiers in jeans and T-Shirts so they don't look so intimidating to the enemy, or perhaps paint their guns pink so they don't scare anyone.

Comment 5 of 226

Crow and Fiction Posted at 7:57 AM January 22, 2010
Tony Abbott would be in full agreeance to the biblical references embedded into the rifles being used by the defence force.

Comment 6 of 226

Joe Levitt of Sydney Posted at 7:58 AM January 22, 2010
Killing for god. It doesn't matter if you call him Allah or Christ. All the religions say you shouldn't kill, and they all invoke god as they do it. Is it any wonder society is becoming more secular? God, guns and grog.......

Comment 7 of 226

John of Coomera Posted at 9:24 AM January 22, 2010
Let's see if I have this right. It is ok to kill but it is not ok to offend. Am I missing something here?

Comment 8 of 226

Aussie Iraq Vet 06-07 of Bribie Island QLD Posted at 9:24 AM January 22, 2010
From an Aussie Vet from the war in Iraq, to me this is "much ado about nothing", just more media spin to stir the pot, and its no big deal. As long as the optics are high quality and proven, thats what matters most to a soldier. Since when are optics weapons anyways?

Comment 9 of 226

SA Penguin of Adelaide Posted at 9:24 AM January 22, 2010
We need another solution - or next, they'll take away our Holy Hand Grenades of Antioch! My idea would be - carve MORE into the sights. Find a suitable quote from the Koran.

Comment 10 of 226

Ex Army of Melbourne Posted at 9:24 AM January 22, 2010
This must be a joke. It is irrelevant what reference can be made out of the serial number of the sight as long as ift functions correctly! "A reporter once asked a sniper what he feels when he shoots a terrorist from long range, .............he just shrugged with a smile and said - "recoil"

Comment 11 of 226




Regards,

OWDU

 

[Fusaki]

My point is this:

While, like you said, no one actually complained to you about the words on the sign at FOB Union, you did get quite a bit of hot lead sent your way.

My impression is that things really didn't start to turn around until Petreaus came in and emphasized that the war in Iraq would not necessarily be won by the most effective weapons systems.  The only way to beat the insurgency was to win the minds of the moderate Iraqis.

While religious text on rifle scopes might not seem like much to you, it can be spun through enemy IO against us.  If we want to win the war, we need to disrupt the enemy's ideological strength that they use as their centre of gravity.  Casting this is a Crusade (a big C religious crusade, because no one would think it's anything else) is only making the enemy stronger and making us weaker.

 

[Fusaki]

Wanna know what meanstream australians think? Go here and read the comments

If mainstream Australians are anything like mainstream Canadians, I shudder to think what would happen if their personal opinions dictated military strategy.

 

[1feral1]

Regardless, its still the voting public, and here its law to vote, not a privillage like it is in Canada. Here you either vote or cop a nasty fine. Remember, our population is that of Canada's in 1970, so votes count.

We must not forget that our public get their opinions based on the media, and we know what they are perfectly capable of doing.

At least our opinions may vary, we are still on the same side.

Regards to you WB.

Wes

 

[Infanteer]

If they don't want the ACOGs because of the biblical references, I'll take 'em....

 

[Fusaki]

I love you, Wesley.