U.S. Politics 2017 (split fm US Election: 2016)

[cupper]

The Trump Administration may have hit an "Oh Poop moment".

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/09/us/flynn-is-said-to-have-talked-to-russians-about-sanctions-before-trump-took-office.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=b-lede-package-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

Even if the conversations were limited to setting up post election discussions, it raises an interesting question about Flynn's competancy. You would think that the former head of the DIA would know that the various intelligence agencies were monitoring communications at the Russian Embassy. Perhaps that's why he was dumped unceremoniously.

Perhaps the Russians would be willing to make an exchange, Snowden for Flynn.

 

[tomahawk6]

Routine ICE raids have rounded up hundreds of illegals this week. I would bet that there will be more raids in the months ahead.

.https://www.yahoo.com/news/hundreds-immigrants-arrested-routine-u-enforcement-surge-023405919.html

http://abc7.com/politics/immigration-raids-net-160-arrests-throughout-socal-ice-says/1748460/

CE Raids Begin In Southern California

Immigration authorities have arrested 160 illegal immigrants so far throughout Southern California over the last few days.

ABC7 reports “U.S. Immigrations and Customs Enforcement said the “targeted enforcement operation” resulted in arrests of about 150 who had criminal histories. Of the other 10, five had been ordered deported or had been deported in the past.”

ICE has said that these raids are apart of their normal operations and aren’t a byproduct of any of President Trump’s executive orders.

Arresting 160 illegal immigrants isn’t even making a dent in the problem in Southern California. The Los Angeles Times reports that in Los Angeles County alone there are 1,000,000+ illegal immigrants.

 

[Journeyman]

I doubt there is full surveillance on all these bad dudes.  But anything less would be criminal IMO.

Once again,  the difference between opinion and informed opinion.  Of course there isn't full surveillance;  had you read the report, you would understand (maybe) that it's not required, even if it was possible without worse consequences.

I'll try to give some background, and the gist of it, then I'm done.  Promise.

First, basics.  A threat requires a risk and  a capability.  Of these 60 people, not all are terrorist masterminds with advanced bomb-making skills.  The common denominator is that they hold extreme views  (not all extremism is bad by the way, in an open society such as ours it only becomes an issue when the extremism is linked to violence).  While some may have gone to learn terrorist tradecraft, others likely went to gain their own insights, others to acquire fund-raising knowledge, others on how to more effectively advocate or promote their beliefs... 

Those with the full picture, then assess the individual threat.

Now, even those considered a higher risk -- the terrorist wannabes -- may have been assessed as lacking the capability.  The Toronto 18 were a risk, yet, for example, the only way they acquired firearms was through the police informant (they were still monitored, arrested, and convicted by the way).  I'm sure that the lower-tier risk pers still receive greater attention, but not full-surveillance (whatever you believe that to be).

Conversely, those considered a low risk of violence but high capability (effective illegal fundraisers or those conspiring to get others to commit crime) will also be monitored to ensure they do not cross Canada's legal lines.

The gist of the report is:  "there is a potential problem; we are aware of it; Canadians need to be alert but a knee-jerk reaction is not in our best interest."

The effect of your suggestion -- a full-court press on intrusive surveillance -- will have one effect, and one effect only:  it will radicalize many, many more, who would previously have believed that the jihadists were wrong.  Now, you have convinced them that there is  a conspiracy to oppress them, with the government apparently acting as though their rights of legitimate charitable fund-raising and free speech do not apply.

A desire to ramp up a police-state response, without even knowing the details or circumstances of the 60 pers, highlights the problem of acting without thinking through any second- and third-order effects.  While occasionally disappointed, I like to think that Canadians are better than that.



I now return you to U.S. Political :deadhorse:      Enjoy.

 

[ModlrMike]

Not to say I told you so, but I guess I did:

The real bad guys are coming from Canada

The Trump White House should be less concerned with the U.S. border with Mexico and turn its attention to Canada instead...

 

[Chispa]

Not to say I told you so, but I guess I did:

The real bad guys are coming from Canada

The Trump White House should be less concerned with the U.S. border with Mexico and turn its attention to Canada instead...

Hummmmmmmmmmmm...That might hold water...A score of Canadians are clueless, believe CSIS's publicly stated 16 terrorist Org's. are in Canada, got wind more then 25, not counting all the rest. Our bleeding heart Canadian system just gave 110% clean bill of health...a Chinese wacko back on the streets that cut someones head OFF, on a bus many years ago.

CSIS: 60 individuals with suspected terrorist links back in Canada.
http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/csis-60-individuals-with-suspected-terrorist-links-back-in-canada-1.2807158

Terrorism in Canada: Timeline of plots, attacks, and allegations.
http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/terrorism-in-canada-timeline-of-plots-attacks-and-allegations-1.2067337

Alleged 'al-Qaeda-supported' plot against Via train thwarted Police say 2 accused were getting 'direction and guidance'
from al-Qaeda elements in Iran.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/alleged-al-qaeda-supported-plot-against-via-train-thwarted-1.1377031

PBA?????  60 Terrorist Plots Since 9/11: Continued Lessons in Domestic Counterterrorism
http://www.heritage.org/terrorism/report/60-terrorist-plots-911-continued-lessons-domestic-counterterrorism


Canadian Gov...Listed Terrorist Entities...https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/ntnl-scrt/cntr-trrrsm/lstd-ntts/index-en.aspx

Report on terrorist threat to Canada released
August 25, 2016
Ottawa, Ontario
Public Safety Canada

The 2016 Public Report on the Terrorist Threat to Canada provides a clear picture of the terrorist threats faced by our country and is part of the Government’s commitment to be open and transparent with Canadians. The report will help Canadians better understand the current threat environment and the action being taken by our Government to keep Canadians safe, while protecting our rights and values.

The Honourable Ralph Goodale, Canada’s Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness, today released the 2016 Public Report on the Terrorist Threat to Canada. In 2015 and early 2016, the main threat to Canada remained that violent extremists could be inspired by groups such as Daesh and al-Qaida to carry out an attack.

Supporting the Government’s counter-terrorism measures is Canada’s National Terrorism Threat Level, which is presented for the first time in this report. This important tool helps government officials and law enforcement agencies identify risks and vulnerabilities and determine which measures to put in place to prevent or mitigate a violent act of terrorism. The current threat level remains at medium.

Quote
"Canadians expect their government to take all necessary steps to keep them safe, while safeguarding our values, our rights and freedoms and the open, inclusive democratic character of our country. Fundamental to effective national security is a solid understanding among Canadians of the threats we face. That's what this report provides, including the current National Terrorism Threat Level for Canada. We want to prompt a rich, thorough, factual discussion of our overall national security framework, so we can shape it together - based on our clear-eyed safety requirements and the principles by which we wish to live our lives."

- Ralph Goodale, Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness. http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?nid=1116789


Currently listed entities...This webpage has been prepared for reference only. Users should consult the Acts as passed by Parliament, which are published in the "Assented to" Acts service, Part III of the Canada Gazette and the annual Statutes of Canada. Users should also consult the regulations, as registered by the Clerk of the Privy Council and published in Part II of the Canada Gazette, available in most public libraries..

https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/ntnl-scrt/cntr-trrrsm/lstd-ntts/crrnt-lstd-ntts-en.aspx


Trump and many Americans' foolhardily believe we as Canadian are nice, polite, etc., will get a reality check when they demand a wall be built across CDN/USA border and "Canadian's Will pay for It."

Trump and the gang can kiss our lovely Canadian Derrières, will shove that wall soo far up Trumps'....... Till he starts whistling Dixie [lol:


P.S. All works great....

C.U.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Chispa: As usual, you are full of sh*t and try to create something out of thin air. As with many people on various sites and many of the so called journalists and Web based news organization, the sensationalism of the title matters more than trying to understand numbers, stats and the difference between oranges and apples.

Let me start with this about the Daily Beast story: Do I believe that more "suspected terrorists" try to enter through Canada than Mexico? Yes. Absolutely. I have in fact little doubt that it is the case. I am gonna go one better: I also believe with little doubt that an even larger number of "suspected terrorists" try to enter the US directly from oversea into a US port of entry such as airports and harbours.

Why do I believe that? For many reasons.

First, because Mexico, unlike Canada and the US, is not and has not been an immigrant country for a very very long time. It therefore has an insignificant population originating from terrorism source countries. But in fact, Mexico today is emigrant country: Large numbers of Mexicans try to enter the immigrant countries that are Canada and the US, in particular.

That's the apple/orange situation here. The USA's "problem" with Mexico is not that it is a terrorist source country - they are not - but a drug source country and a large scale illegal immigration country. Look at Trump's discourse during the election: He called for a stop to the illegal immigration problem because they "are rapist and druggies", but he never mentioned terrorists. The wall is to be built to stop illegal immigration. It has nothing to do with terrorism and it complements avery extensive system of border measures to stop illegal entry already in place.

So if you were a terrorist oversea trying to enter the US, why on earth would you attempt to do it from the most defended side?

Next, there is the fact that the stats here are for "suspected" terrorist stopped at the border. You may notice that you have never seen reports of the alleged "suspects" ever being arrested (they are after all in the US when trying to go through customs) and prosecuted as terrorists. Why is that? It is because what we are talking about here is "suspected" in the sense of "suspicious" not in the sense that they are a "suspect" in an actual police investigation. This suspicion is that of the Customs officer at the port of entry and his own reporting for the reason to refuse entry into the US. If they thought seriously for a moment that these people were actually coming in to commit an act of terrorism, they would be arrested on the spot and you would not hear the end of it until condemned by a court of law.

Now we all know that "suspected terrorist" in the American vocabulary means "islamic terrorists" from Muslim majority country or from Muslim origin but unintelligible to US Customs officer because they don't speak Arabic and "it sounds really scary" in their paranoia and ignorance (remember that the US is the country where an actual Texas Governor once answered a journalist who asked if the kids in school should be issued Bibles in Spanish that "if English was good enough for Christ, it's good enough for the latino population"). Moreover, it's in a situation where they don't have to justify their actions to any one.

As you can recognize, such population is near non-existent in Mexico, while it makes a good proportion of the Canadian and American population.

So basically, even if true, which it likely is, it does not require a wall between Canada and the US, and as a statistic it is of no significance since they haven't the foggiest if these "suspected terrorists" they are preventing from entering the US are even terrorists at all.

You don't believe me: Just two days ago, a 25  year old Canadian born student of Sherbrooke University, whose parents happened to be Moroccan (not on the ban list) and happens to be Muslim was prevented fro entering the US for the purpose of taking part in a track meet (he is a member of U of S team) in Boston. How much you want to bet he is listed now as being refused entry as a "suspected" terrorist?

And those of you who believe that Mr. Trump's Executive Order is not a Muslim ban, this is not the first such incident for a Canadian citizen in the last week or so. It is irrelevant what the Trump close entourage tries to claim on his order. What matters  (and he, and they, know that) is the signal it sends to the actual US Customs officers that they are now free, almost expected, to stop Muslims from coming in from anywhere, if they are so inclined personally. But you can go on believing what you will about Mr. Trump. 

 

[Chispa]

Chispa: As usual, you are full of **** and try to create something out of thin air. As with many people on various sites and many of the so called journalists and Web based news organization, the sensationalism of the title matters more than trying to understand numbers, stats and the difference between oranges and apples.

The only one full of $hit is U, as Usual...All I C is allot of thin air flatulence out of your mouth...
Kindly stop personally attacking me OR I WILL DO Something about That.
I Print Scrn and have a file on your constant harassment and cyber-bulling...
just like the guy in Boston and New York found out the hard way.

All I did was provided links, etc., concerning that it's plausable, all you do is Bla Bla Bla


Canada’s spy agencies have tracked 180 Canadians who are engaged with terrorist organizations abroad, while another 60 have returned home.

The latest figures mark a significant increase from the findings of the 2014 Public Report on the Terrorist Threat to Canada, which identified about 130 people involved in terror-related activities overseas, including 30 taking an active role with the Islamic State in Syria and Iraq and the Nusra Front in Syria.

“The total number of people overseas involved in threat-related activities – and I’m not just talking about Iraq and Syria – is probably around 180,” Canadian Security Intelligence Service director Michel Coulombe told The Globe and Mail after testifying before the House of Commons public safety committee. “In Iraq and Syria, we are probably talking close to 100.”


These people are involved in various activities, including direct combat, training, fundraising to support attacks, promoting radical views and planning terrorist violence.
Canada’s spy agencies have tracked 180 Canadians who are engaged with terrorist organizations abroad, while another 60 have returned home.

The latest figures mark a significant increase from the findings of the 2014 Public Report on the Terrorist Threat to Canada, which identified about 130 people involved in terror-related activities overseas, including 30 taking an active role with the Islamic State in Syria and Iraq and the Nusra Front in Syria.

“The total number of people overseas involved in threat-related activities – and I’m not just talking about Iraq and Syria – is probably around 180,” Canadian Security Intelligence Service director Michel Coulombe told The Globe and Mail after testifying before the House of Commons public safety committee. “In Iraq and Syria, we are probably talking close to 100.”


These people are involved in various activities, including direct combat, training, fundraising to support attacks, promoting radical views and planning terrorist violence.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/sharp-rise-in-number-of-canadians-involved-in-terrorist-activities-abroad/article28864101/


Is Canada an Unofficial State Sponsor of Terrorism?

In 2006, the Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS) reported that extremist groups operating in Canada were routinely fundraising, procuring materials, spreading propaganda and recruiting in efforts to support terrorist activities internationally. In fact, by 1998, every major terrorist group in the world was operating in Canada. Former CSIS director, Ward Elcock, said that, “with perhaps the singular exception of the United States, there are more international terrorist groups active here than any other country in the world.” 1

The 2006 arrests of 18 Muslim Canadian men charged with plotting terrorist attacks on Canadian targets highlighted the new reality that the threat of terror groups was also becoming a “homegrown” domestic reality. In the wake of this most inconvenient truth, Environics Research Group conducted a survey of Canadian Muslims’ life satisfaction. While 80% felt satisfied with their lives here, and 73% felt the ‘Toronto 18’ terror plot was abhorrent, 12% believed it to be at least somewhat justified. The population sample–representative of 84,000 Muslim Canadians—considered the planned bombings of Toronto’s financial institutions and the Prime Minister’s beheading to be justifiable. 2

http://mackenzieinstitute.com/canada-unofficial-state-sponsor-terrorism/


Mods You can -10,000 or other members IDRGARA..this constant abuse from this member will stop.



C.U.

 

[armyvern]

Aisle 13 - "Sale on tinfoil!! get it while it lasts!"

:

 

[Scott]

The only one full of $hit is U, as Usual...All I C is allot of thin air flatulence out of your mouth...
Kindly stop personally attacking me OR I WILL DO Something about That.
I Print Scrn and have a file on your constant harassment and cyber-bulling...
just like the guy in Boston and New York found out the hard way.

All I did was provided links, etc., concerning that it's plausable, all you do is Bla Bla Bla


Canada’s spy agencies have tracked 180 Canadians who are engaged with terrorist organizations abroad, while another 60 have returned home.

The latest figures mark a significant increase from the findings of the 2014 Public Report on the Terrorist Threat to Canada, which identified about 130 people involved in terror-related activities overseas, including 30 taking an active role with the Islamic State in Syria and Iraq and the Nusra Front in Syria.

“The total number of people overseas involved in threat-related activities – and I’m not just talking about Iraq and Syria – is probably around 180,” Canadian Security Intelligence Service director Michel Coulombe told The Globe and Mail after testifying before the House of Commons public safety committee. “In Iraq and Syria, we are probably talking close to 100.”


These people are involved in various activities, including direct combat, training, fundraising to support attacks, promoting radical views and planning terrorist violence.
Canada’s spy agencies have tracked 180 Canadians who are engaged with terrorist organizations abroad, while another 60 have returned home.

The latest figures mark a significant increase from the findings of the 2014 Public Report on the Terrorist Threat to Canada, which identified about 130 people involved in terror-related activities overseas, including 30 taking an active role with the Islamic State in Syria and Iraq and the Nusra Front in Syria.

“The total number of people overseas involved in threat-related activities – and I’m not just talking about Iraq and Syria – is probably around 180,” Canadian Security Intelligence Service director Michel Coulombe told The Globe and Mail after testifying before the House of Commons public safety committee. “In Iraq and Syria, we are probably talking close to 100.”


These people are involved in various activities, including direct combat, training, fundraising to support attacks, promoting radical views and planning terrorist violence.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/sharp-rise-in-number-of-canadians-involved-in-terrorist-activities-abroad/article28864101/


Is Canada an Unofficial State Sponsor of Terrorism?

In 2006, the Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS) reported that extremist groups operating in Canada were routinely fundraising, procuring materials, spreading propaganda and recruiting in efforts to support terrorist activities internationally. In fact, by 1998, every major terrorist group in the world was operating in Canada. Former CSIS director, Ward Elcock, said that, “with perhaps the singular exception of the United States, there are more international terrorist groups active here than any other country in the world.” 1

The 2006 arrests of 18 Muslim Canadian men charged with plotting terrorist attacks on Canadian targets highlighted the new reality that the threat of terror groups was also becoming a “homegrown” domestic reality. In the wake of this most inconvenient truth, Environics Research Group conducted a survey of Canadian Muslims’ life satisfaction. While 80% felt satisfied with their lives here, and 73% felt the ‘Toronto 18’ terror plot was abhorrent, 12% believed it to be at least somewhat justified. The population sample–representative of 84,000 Muslim Canadians—considered the planned bombings of Toronto’s financial institutions and the Prime Minister’s beheading to be justifiable. 2

http://mackenzieinstitute.com/canada-unofficial-state-sponsor-terrorism/


Mods You can -10,000 or other members IDRGARA..this constant abuse from this member will stop.



C.U.

You will not threaten people here. Period.

You're on listening silence until this is discussed.

Scott
Staff

 

[Scott]

To everyone else: please ignore that and keep the thread on track.

Cheers

 

[a_majoor]

Your smile for today:

 

[Kirkhill]

Great article from P.J. O'Rourke in the Weekly Standard

http://www.weeklystandard.com/the-revolt-against-the-elites/article/2006641

Best Lines:

And what defines a mob? Mobsters. That Cosa Nostra with its code of omertà at the Clinton Foundation. Those "Make America Great Again" Crips and Bloods wearing their colors on their baseball caps with brims bumped to the right.

We should be learning the value of individual liberty from the failure of the elites and the fiasco of their vast political power. Good things are made by free individuals in free association with other individuals. Notice that that's how we make babies.

Individual freedom is about bringing things together.

Politics is about dividing things up.

Elites would have us make babies by putting the woman on this side of the room and the man on that side of the room while the elites stand in the middle taxing sperm and eggs.

Much, much more about both the elites and the masses (and even a reference to Canadian politics).

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Not to say I told you so, but I guess I did:

The real bad guys are coming from Canada

The Trump White House should be less concerned with the U.S. border with Mexico and turn its attention to Canada instead...

The actual Daily Beast report includes this paragraph:

" The reports do not say whether the land border crossings were attempts or successful entries into the United States. (Being watchlisted does not necessarily prevent you from entering the country.) The people documented in these encounters can include people holding valid visas, applying for asylum, or caught between ports of entry by U.S. law enforcement."

The Daily Beast report contains a total of seven FBI documents (Apr/14, May/14, Oct/14, Mar/15, Apr/15, May/15 and Aug/16) that cover a period that starts in Apr/14 and ends in Aug/16. May be someone is only releasing reports that support their theory? Or on the other hand they are meant to be a selection representing that time period.

Interestingly, three of these reports (Apr and May/15, and Aug/16) still have there cover pages attached which contain the following paragraph:

"(U) Some individuals encountered during this period may have since been removed from watchlisting. For situational awareness, the encounters associated with these individuals are stiil included in this report." (My emphasis)

So to me it appears that individuals whose name were on a terrorist watchlist were stopped, interrogated and were either (a) arrested; (b) turned back, or (c) allowed to enter the country and there names removed from the list. Unfortunately, the reports don't tell us what action was taken. To me it appears that people are panicking over something that is being blown out of proportion.

 

[ModlrMike]

To me it appears that people are panicking over something that is being blown out of proportion.

That was exactly my point. This is the (non)issue that our government needs to be mindful of. There's plenty of Senators and Congressmen who would believe this in a heartbeat. If it gains traction, then we need to be able to counter it.

 

[cupper]

Well, it looks like Lt Gen Flynn has resigned as the National Security Advisor.

Lt Gen keith Kellogg, Executive Secretary of the NSC has been elevated to Acting NSA.

http://www.wcvb.com/article/michael-flynn-resigns-amid-russia-controversy/8777525

This must be some form of record for earliest resignation by a cabinet level appointee.

 

[cupper]

Well, it looks like the inmates may well be running the asylum.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/13/opinion/mental-health-professionals-warn-about-trump.html?ref=opinion&_r=0

Mental Health Professionals Warn About Trump

To the Editor:

Charles M. Blow (column, nytimes.com, Feb. 9) describes Donald Trump’s constant need “to grind the opposition underfoot.” As mental health professionals, we share Mr. Blow’s concern.

Silence from the country’s mental health organizations has been due to a self-imposed dictum about evaluating public figures (the American Psychiatric Association’s 1973 Goldwater Rule). But this silence has resulted in a failure to lend our expertise to worried journalists and members of Congress at this critical time. We fear that too much is at stake to be silent any longer.

Mr. Trump’s speech and actions demonstrate an inability to tolerate views different from his own, leading to rage reactions. His words and behavior suggest a profound inability to empathize. Individuals with these traits distort reality to suit their psychological state, attacking facts and those who convey them (journalists, scientists).

In a powerful leader, these attacks are likely to increase, as his personal myth of greatness appears to be confirmed. We believe that the grave emotional instability indicated by Mr. Trump’s speech and actions makes him incapable of serving safely as president.

LANCE DODES

JOSEPH SCHACHTER

Beverly Hills, Calif.

Dr. Dodes is a retired assistant clinical professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School. Dr. Schachter is a former chairman of the Committee on Research Proposals, International Psychoanalytic Association. The letter was also signed by 35 other psychiatrists, psychologists and social workers.

 

[kkwd]

Well, it looks like the inmates may well be running the asylum.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/13/opinion/mental-health-professionals-warn-about-trump.html?ref=opinion&_r=0

The last sentence of the letter quoted below states that Trump is unfit to serve as President. Seems to me that you would require more than a few sound bites from various news outlets to come to this conclusion. Would it not require at least a couple of personal questions or close observation? It's just my opinion but this doctor seems unprofessional unethical and has a agenda to malign Trump. Of course I can't back this up, I only saw a letter of his on the internet.

We believe that the grave emotional instability indicated by Mr. Trump’s speech and actions makes him incapable of serving safely as president.

 

[Flavus101]

Just another "expert" weighing in.

The nice thing about "experts" is that you can always find another one whose opinion differs.

I think that the world needs an event that brings around hard times, where the starving students are not able to always have the latest phone or computer. An event that unites a country and drives it's citizens to overcome together.

Cue an alien invasion 

 

[mariomike]

Well, it looks like the inmates may well be running the asylum.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/13/opinion/mental-health-professionals-warn-about-trump.html?ref=opinion&_r=0

The letter was also signed by 35 other psychiatrists, psychologists and social workers.

His mental health has been a popular topic in the last 24-48 hours,
https://www.google.ca/search?q=trump+mental&biw=1536&bih=723&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A2%2F12%2F2017%2Ccd_max%3A&tbm=

The only qualification seems to be, "No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty-five years, and been fourteen years a resident within the United States."

By that standard, he is the most qualified POTUS in history.

Will he voluntarily submit to a psychiatric assessment? Probably around the same time he voluntarily submits his tax returns. 

 

[Rifleman62]

Will he voluntarily submit to a psychiatric assessment?

There are lots of people who should voluntarily submit to a psychiatric assessment.