U.S. Politics 2017 (split fm US Election: 2016)

[MARS]

From the website apology:

There are no words to express the distaste and hateful words that our Social Media Coordinator unleashed on what was supposed to represent Charitable Humans...

Sure there are.  Those words would be: "We are horrified at the distaste and hateful words..." and perhaps..."our previous Social Media coordinator has been fired/released/resigned/is no longer employed here..."

Their action to take down the site and post and make an apology and get rid of the a**hole came quickly.

...I don't actually see it stated anywhere in their apology that the person responsible has been dealt with...in any way.  Did I miss that?

 

[The Bread Guy]

Some very telling tweets from "Charitable Humans" about the hurricane in the US ...

They're not the only ones being a bit ... goofy in the midst of the storm ...
"Ted Cruz squirms when asked why he voted No for Sandy aid but now asks for Harvey aid"

 

[Jarnhamar]

That's a fairly cynical view of life.

My view is that the world is made up of a lot of good people and a given number of a**holes. In this case it appears to me that one a**hole made a really stupid tweet in the name of the organization for which he volunteers or works. Their action to take down the site and post and make an apology and get rid of the a**hole came quickly.

I want to think I'm being pragmatic but you're probably right, it's very cynical.

I'm basing my views on this on a lot of very similar stories I see played out over social media.  Companies or organizations will say insane outlandish things then follow up with a quick apology and a quick disappearing act. Yes it could just be someone making a really stupid tweet but in my opinion for someone to make comments like this they have to think it's acceptable on some level. I find it really hard to fathom that someone working for a charitable organization would publicly comment about withholding funds or whatever from people suffering in a hurricane. Also no where in the apology does the company talk about any sort of action taken against the individual making the comments- I found it a very shallow and non-genuine apology.

If one of my soldiers makes racist or dickhead comments in uniform in a very public venue I think yes he's to blame but I would also expect someone to start asking questions about how I run things and why the soldier feels it's acceptable to say what they say.  Celebrities, TV hosts and whoever else are routinely making all kinds of crazy comments up to and including calling for the assassination of the president. I think it's a national issue rather than individual.

 

[FJAG]

...I don't actually see it stated anywhere in their apology that the person responsible has been dealt with...in any way.  Did I miss that?

You're right there. The individual who made the posts was their "Social media Coordinator" and they state that they've "closed down the social media accounts". I took that to mean the guy/gal is gone but perhaps I was reading too much into that.  :sorry:

:cheers:

 

[mariomike]

They're not the only ones being a bit ... goofy in the midst of the storm ...
"Ted Cruz squirms when asked why he voted No for Sandy aid but now asks for Harvey aid"

Not just Mr. Cruz,

20 Texas GOP Representatives and Both Senators Voted Against the Sandy Relief Act
http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2017/08/28/flashback_20_texas_gop_representatives_and_both_senators_voted_against_the.html

 

[kkwd]

They're not the only ones being a bit ... goofy in the midst of the storm ...
"Ted Cruz squirms when asked why he voted No for Sandy aid but now asks for Harvey aid"

The Sandy relief bill was well after the fact. Harvey is current and people are drowning. Apples and oranges maybe.

 

[Loachman]

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/450893/antifa-berkeley-violence-harms-political-culture?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=NR%20Daily%20Monday%20through%20Friday%202017-08-28&utm_term=NR5PM%20Actives

Antifa Just Showed Its True Colors. Again.

There is no apologetic for Marxist violence.

By David French - August 28, 2017

If 2016 is the year when our political parties failed, inflicting on America arguably its worst presidential choice in our nation’s history, then 2017 is when our broader institutions began to lose their collective minds. This is the year when reasonable men surrendered to unreason - when political tribalism trumped human decency.

The primary tragedy of Charlottesville was the loss of a young woman’s life. The secondary tragedy was the distortion of our political culture.

The president of the United States actually declared some portion of a collection of neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and alt-right white nationalists to be “very fine people.” (No, he did not. He said that there were some very fine people on both sides. It is far from inconceivable that there was a number of non-neo-Nazi, non-white supremacist non-alt-right white nationalist peaceful protestors on the right side who were not agitating for white supremacy or ready for violent conflict but liked their statue, just as there were non-Antifa peaceful protesters on the left side; there was some brief coverage to that effect early on but it seems to have been overwhelmed). He just couldn’t bring himself to completely disavow men and women who’d supported him since the day he descended down the escalator at Trump Tower.

Yet rather than doing the easiest and most sensible thing in the world  condemning white supremacy while also condemning political violence on the far left - some portion of the left-wing intelligentsia actually decided to embrace their own thugs. They supported Antifa. They decided to lionize some of the worst people in American life. And in so doing, they actually compared them to the American heroes who stormed Omaha Beach. The tweets below, as the saying goes, did not age well.

First, here’s Jeffrey Goldberg, the editor-in-chief of The Atlantic, one of the best and most respected political journals in American life:

Watching ‘Saving Private Ryan,’ a movie about a group of very aggressive alt-left protesters invading a beach without a permit.
- Jeffrey Goldberg (@JeffreyGoldberg) August 16, 2017

In fact, this comparison of the “alt-left” with the warriors of the Greatest Generation was hardly unique to Goldberg. Here’s CNN’s Chris Cuomo:

Let’s not forget pic.twitter.com/q5wjVmZylR
- Christopher C. Cuomo (@ChrisCuomo) August 16, 2017

And here’s CNN contributor and former Hillary Clinton spokesman Brian Fallon:

Also confronted the Nazis without a permit: pic.twitter.com/3c2f3X9slC
- Brian Fallon (@brianefallon) August 16, 2017

Indeed, for a time the very notion that a person could and should condemn both Antifa and the alt-right generated extreme rage online. How dare you equate fascists and anti-fascists! Outlets such as the Washington Post and CNN published fawning apologetics and romanticized profiles of the far left’s vigilante thugs. Antifa had its pop-culture moment.

It was disgraceful. All of it. And this weekend Antifa struck again. A small group of peaceful right-wing protesters gathered in Berkeley. Black-clad Antifa thugs attacked. The Washington Post has the story:

Their faces hidden behind black bandannas and hoodies, about 100 anarchists and antifa - “anti-fascist” - members barreled into a protest Sunday afternoon in Berkeley’s Martin Luther King Jr. Civic Center Park.

Jumping over plastic and concrete barriers, the group melted into a larger crowd of around 2,000 that had marched peacefully throughout the sunny afternoon for a “Rally Against Hate” gathering.

Shortly after, violence began to flare. A pepper-spray-wielding Trump supporter was smacked to the ground with homemade shields. Another was attacked by five black-clad antifa members, each windmilling kicks and punches into a man desperately trying to protect himself. A conservative group leader retreated for safety behind a line of riot police as marchers chucked water bottles, shot off pepper spray and screamed, “Fascist go home!”

Even worse, the police literally stood aside and let Antifa take over a public park. It allowed mob rule and then justified abdicating its responsibility to protect the liberty and safety of Berkeley’s citizens by claiming that it wanted “people to freely assemble.” This is a sad joke. It gave control to Antifa. It empowered the heckler’s veto.

The video evidence of violence is appalling. Antifa isn’t heroic. It’s brutal:

Antifa beat down apparent alt-righter. pic.twitter.com/WVdDJqLKmA (video available at link to main article)
- Shane Bauer (@shane_bauer) August 27, 2017

As vicious as they are, in a functioning constitutional republic, Antifa is a manageable, short-term problem. A vigorous police presence followed by a wave of arrests and aggressive prosecutions would largely end the threat. The men and women of Antifa aren’t insurgents; they’re little more than a cowardly gang of left-wing thugs.

Far more serious is their effect on the rule of law and political discourse. Has hatred for Trump so blinded America’s liberal elite that it’s willing to romanticize violence? Is their respect for the First Amendment so fragile that the thrill of watching alleged members of the alt-right get punched in the face is worth more than preserving core constitutional liberties? Have the police forgotten their role as guardians of American liberty?

This isn’t #resistance, it’s lawlessness. It’s not anti-fascism, it’s violent repression. Is the rule now that any gathering of Trump supporters - alt-right or not - in any blue enclave risks a violent response? Have authorities, through a combination of cowardice and political correctness, ceded control of the streets in key American towns to a Marxist/anarchist mob?

Antifa and its elite apologists are sending a clear message of hate and loathing to millions of Americans who don’t have a fascist bone in their bodies - to the millions of good people who voted for Donald Trump. Antifa doesn’t occupy the moral high ground. Its apologists have no grounds to sneer at anyone. Instead, they’re competing with the alt-right for control of the political sewer.

Condemn Antifa now. Prosecute its members now. Or watch America continue to tear itself apart. Violent Marxists are evil. Violent fascists are evil. If we can’t understand both of those basic truths simultaneously, then we have truly lost our way.

- David French is a senior writer for National Review, a senior fellow at the National Review Institute, and an attorney.

HA Goodman is a Jill Stein/Bernie Sanders supporter who nonetheless gives balanced coverage and regularly slams the Democratic Party and Clintons for their failings:

"Antifa Attacks Peaceful Right-Wing Demonstrators in Berkeley: Washington Post" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTpQXG1NvPs

"Antifa Attacks Peaceful Right-Wing Demonstrators in Berkeley: Washington Post" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQhBhWGN8w0

A huge awakening:

"Antifa Violence Finally Covered on MSNBC" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XXbgKUKeRw

 

[mariomike]

Antifa Just Showed Its True Colors. Again.

Which is why it is suggested that counter-events should not be held in close proximity to right extremists.
Not to fall into the trap of confronting them.

Stand up to them in a way that denies them a chance for bloodshed.

If anti-fa wants to confront them, they will be on their own.

Reference,

How should we protest neo-Nazis? Lessons from German history
https://theconversation.com/how-should-we-protest-neo-nazis-lessons-from-german-history-82645
"We have an ethical obligation to stand against fascism and racism. But we also have an ethical obligation to do so in a way that doesn’t help the fascists and racists more than it hurts them."

 

[FJAG]

. . .
Even worse, the police literally stood aside and let Antifa take over a public park. It allowed mob rule and then justified abdicating its responsibility to protect the liberty and safety of Berkeley’s citizens by claiming that it wanted “people to freely assemble.” This is a sad joke. It gave control to Antifa. It empowered the heckler’s veto.
. . .

Let me start off by saying this is not a defence of Antifa. I distinguish those individuals who do peaceful anti fascist demonstrations (such as the vast majority of the protesters who came out in the morning at Berkley) from the Black Bloc inspired crazed rabble who use the term Antifa (and who showed up late to the protest and caused all the problems). Those members of Antifa, like the Black Bloc need to be eradicated through proper policing and a rigorous justice system.

My complaint is with the statement made above about the policing.

I think a more balanced report about the whole incident can be found in the LA Times here: http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-berkeley-protests-20170827-story.html

There was a police presence and some 14 demonstrators were arrested. I think it is somewhat disingenuous for a reporter to generalize the overall policing effort based on fragmented views during a chaotic situation.

More importantly, if there's anything that the G20 protests in Toronto show you its that regardless of how the police do their job, the 20/20 hindsight heroes come out to analyse the aftermath in a way that makes it appear that the police are the problem. If the police are careful and measured in their response then they are abdicating their responsibility; if the policing is robust then they themselves are acting like fascist storm troopers.

In Toronto, the police were proactive in controlling fanatical Black Bloc agent provocateurs and their hangers on and wannabees and arrested/detained hundreds of them. The next day many of the protests were aimed at the police themselves. What's worse is that in the aftermath, there were strong criticisms by the likes of Andre Marin, the Ontario Ombudsman at the time (don't get me started on him), the infamous Toronto Star, human rights tribunals and worst of all, the courts, who seemed to go easy on the protesters but went out of their way to criticize the cops.

It's not the police that "empower" groups like Neo-Nazis, White Supremacists, the Black Bloc or Antifa; it's society itself by not providing the police with sufficient enforcement tools, powers, protection and moral support, nor appropriate laws that punishes violent/criminal protest activities effectively. Let's put a guy or gal that comes to a protest with a mask, shield and baton or throws a Molotov cocktail in jail for a year or two and see how long this crap goes on. :2c:

:cheers:

 

[Loachman]

Which is why it is suggested that counter-events should not be held in close proximity to right extremists.
Not to fall into the trap of confronting them.

Stand up to them in a way that denies them a chance for bloodshed.

If anti-fa wants to confront them, they will be on their own.

Reference,

How should we protest neo-Nazis? Lessons from German history
https://theconversation.com/how-should-we-protest-neo-nazis-lessons-from-german-history-82645
"We have an ethical obligation to stand against fascism and racism. But we also have an ethical obligation to do so in a way that doesn’t help the fascists and racists more than it hurts them."

Yes, you posted that before.

None of it works very well because Antifa wants to fight. They want to confront them, and they want to be left on their own to do so. They are not "falling into a trap".

Arrests, convictions, and jail sentences would have much more effect.

Mask removal by police prior to entry into the protest area has a proven deterrent effect.

Those require police and judicial action, public and media condemnation of alt-left violence and intimidation (which may, finally, be beginning as per the final link on my last post), and political support and direction, however.

 

[dapaterson]

...in the aftermath, there was strong criticisms by the likes of Andre Marin, the Ontario Ombudsman at the time (don't get me started on him)...

Hey!  There is no greater fan of André Marin...




...than André Marin.

 

[mariomike]

Yes, you posted that before.

None of it works very well because Antifa wants to fight. They want to confront them, and they want to be left on their own to do so. They are not "falling into a trap".

I will say it again.

If anti-fa and nazis want to fight, let them.  If anti-fa and Nazis want to confront   each other, let them.
If anti-fa and Nazis want to be left on their own, let them.

Just stay away from the neo-Nazis. Let the police handle any fights between them and anti-fa.

Hold a counter event that doesn’t involve physical proximity to the right extremists.

If the alt-right rallies, “organize a joyful protest” well away from them."

But, stay away from neo-nazis . A long way away.

If the neo-nazis and anti-fa want to confront each other, let the police handle it.

Lock up the perps, whatever their political persuasion, and throw away the key.

I don't believe I can be any more clear than that. Just don't let yourself fall into a trap by going anywhere near Nazis.

Don't parade with them, or confront them.

Or, you are liable to end up in hospital / morgue or jail.

I think after Charleston, Boston and California, the alt-right are calling off a lot of rallies and taking their rage out on their keyboards instead of the streets.

( Wasn't aware there were Confederate statues to defend in Boston or California, by the way.  )

Anti-Islam ‘hate group’ cancels rallies after seeing 40,000 anti-fascists in Boston
ACT for America was due to hold 67 ‘America First’ rallies in 36 states on September 9, ostensibly to show its support for the ‘common sense America First’ policies pushed by president Donald Trump.

But in the wake of the Boston protests on Saturday, these have now all been cancelled.

According to ACT’s founder Brigitte Gabriel, the America First rallies will now be replaced with an ‘online “Day of ACTion”‘.
http://metro.co.uk/2017/08/22/anti-islam-hate-group-cancels-67-rallies-after-seeing-40000-anti-fascists-in-boston-6871079/

They can post all the memes they want, to their heart's content. 

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

André Marin.

God just killed a kitten because of you.....

 

[FJAG]

Just when we thought that everything turned on Confederate statues we find that there's also the issue of Confederate State Songs.

Maryland school band silences pro-Confederate state song

https://www.brandonsun.com/sports/breaking-news/maryland-school-band-silences-pro-confederate-state-song-442063613.html

Maryland, My Maryland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryland,_My_Maryland

(I particularly like the "Huzza! she scorns the Northern scum!" line.)  ;D Who knew?

For those who aren't too up on things, Maryland was a pro South slave state but through some interesting manoeuvring ended up NOT seceding from the Union.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryland_in_the_American_Civil_War#To_secede_or_not_to_secede

 

[dapaterson]

God just killed a kitten because of you.....

I don't like cats...

 

[mariomike]

Maryland school band silences pro-Confederate state song

They can still listen to Ernie Ford sing, "Dixie - Union version".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5ra9cXx1-o

"Away down South in the land of traitors, Rattlesnakes and alligators,

Where cotton's king and men are chattels, Union boys will win the battles,"

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

Yes, you posted that before.

None of it works very well because Antifa wants to fight. They want to confront them, and they want to be left on their own to do so. They are not "falling into a trap".

Arrests, convictions, and jail sentences would have much more effect.

Mask removal by police prior to entry into the protest area has a proven deterrent effect.

Those require police and judicial action, public and media condemnation of alt-left violence and intimidation (which may, finally, be beginning as per the final link on my last post), and political support and direction, however.

why is it so important for people to prove that antifa is equally as egregious as the neo-nazi's? Neo nazi's are comprised of possibly the worst people in the world. Like, people who make Frank from Shameless look awesome. Antifa is also made of people who are terrible if not just slightly better than a neo-nazi (not saying much on a sliding scale).

I just dont see why it's so important to prove that one group of idiots is as bad as another group of idiots to somehow make the first group of idiots look better or at least less complicit. The alt-right people didn't show up with army cam and rifles, nazi flags, and chanting racist slurs to host a peaceful exchange of ideas about the issue of statues (of which I'm sure some of them didn't know a) who Lee was or b) how to spell statue). The antifa didn't come to have said exchange of ideas either, so neither side can be seen to be a victim, IMHO.

Have we, as a society, really slid so far down a partisan path that we will actually attempt to pass blame for two groups of morons fighting each other for partisan purposes. Does proving antifa showed up to be violent make the nazis carrying blood flags and chanting in idiotonese somehow less horrible? Does saying that antifa showed up to fight nazi's somehow make them more just? (hint- if the answer to either of these is yes than it's time to take a long hard look at yourself).

 

[Jed]

Just when we thought that everything turned on Confederate statues we find that there's also the issue of Confederate State Songs.

Maryland school band silences pro-Confederate state song

https://www.brandonsun.com/sports/breaking-news/maryland-school-band-silences-pro-confederate-state-song-442063613.html

Maryland, My Maryland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryland,_My_Maryland

(I particularly like the "Huzza! she scorns the Northern scum!" line.)  ;D Who knew?

For those who aren't too up on things, Maryland was a pro South slave state but through some interesting manoeuvring ended up NOT seceding from the Union.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryland_in_the_American_Civil_War#To_secede_or_not_to_secede

So , Johnny Horton tunes are now verboten as well?  [

 

[kkwd]

I can't see what the last few posts have to do with US politics in 2017. Is it because it is some politician's fault?

 

[mariomike]

I can't see what the last few posts have to do with US politics in 2017.

Charlottesville and Skokie have been frequently compared in 2017,
https://www.google.ca/search?q=skokie+charlottesville&biw=1280&bih=603&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A8%2F3%2F2017%2Ccd_max%3A8%2F29%2F2017&tbm=

I will move it to the Charlottesville discussion, if that meets with your approval.