United States Army tightens rules on hair, tattoos, makeup

[armyvern]

It appears nobody can agree with the line since it moves. Im in the thread too much and I think I'm just saying the same things over and over again- so I'll bow out. Controlling facial hair serves a function. So does being well groomed- its also discipline. Piercings are a safety issue. Being dressed appropriately is a sign of respect for the people you are meeting.

I disagree that tattoos have anything to do with those issues. So I dont need to add anymore to this thread.

Our change of rules didn't affect you because you were grandfathered. Exactly as the US is also talking about. I believe the only pers that had to remove tattoos were those with the obscenities like "Fuck you" (intended only to offend the person being saluted  : ), on their saluting hand amongst some others that certainly did not put forth "professionalism" no matter how you want to cut it. Nazi symbolism etc.

Pers with sleeves and tattoos may still be recruited into the CF ... if the sleeves and other tattoos are not derogatory. There is a thread on here somewhere where an applicant was required to remove a visible and offensive tattoo if he wished to enrol. Oh well.

Our line has been there for at least 7 years. If someone is in and chooses to cross that line that is their issue, not the CFs.

Edit to add: 8 years. 01 April 2004.

9. Body Tattoos and Body-Piercing.
Members shall not acquire visible tattoos that could
be deemed to be offensive (e.g., pornographic,
blasphemous, racist) or otherwise reflect discredit on
the CF. Visible and non-visible body piercing
adornments, with the exception of women’s earrings
and ear sleepers described in sub-paragraph 6.a.,
shall not be worn by members either in uniform or on
duty in civilian clothing. The meaning of the term “on
duty”, for purposes of dress and appearance, is
Interpreted in Chapter 1, paragraph 25.

10. As of 1 April 2004 CF members are not to acquire
any tattoos that are visible on the head, neck, chest or
ears when an open collared shirt is worn. Tattoos acquired
prior to 1 April 2004 must comply with para 9

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/lf/Downloads/cfp265.pdf

I see zero wrong with the above; what is the specific issue you have with it? It clearly lays out what type are not allowed and where they are not allowed. If you are in compliance with that, then you have no bone in the fight --- that is unless you plan on getting a racist, blasphemous or pornographic tattoo anytime soon; or a tattoo in one of the "not allowed places" that you did not already have when the CF enrolled you (so, no, they are not forcing you to change something you already had when they agreed to enrol you).

Oh, and edited to add: I have many tattoos --- all in compliance with the current rules too.

 

[fraserdw]

Awful lot of new folks walking around not in compliance with that policy.  Is it enforced, beyond racist and bad taste stuff I mean?

 

[Franko]

We've been warned that going to the canex unshaven/unkempt/not properly dressed is grounds for a charge. I'm not sure where else my CoC would see me on a weekend/on leave. I can't remember the wording of the policy as it was passed on verbally, but the gist of it is "You must be clean shaven and presentable at all times, regardless of you being on leave or not"

And yes, quite recent. Came down last week or the week before.

Going to base, on leave or not, you must be clean shaven. Period. It's not new, it's been in place for over the 20+ years that I've been in.

Same as wearing headress in POMVs while on base....not new. The amount of troops I have witnessed on base apparently think the rules don't apply to them.

It's about time the regs are being enforced.

 

[Occam]

Going to base, on leave or not, you must be clean shaven. Period. It's not new, it's been in place for over the 20+ years that I've been in.

Could you give me the reference for that, please?

 

[aesop081]

Same as wearing headress in POMVs while on base....not new. The amount of troops I have witnessed on base apparently think the rules don't apply to them.

There is always a exception to that rule, on every single base i have been posted to. Headress must be worn unless it impedes the driver's ability to operate his/her POMV safely.

I do not wear my headress on base (or anywhere else) while driving my car. Wearing my wedge, i cannot turn my head without my wedge going to opposite direction.

Feel free to go verify that those people are just ignoring the rule because they can.

 

[armyvern]

Awful lot of new folks walking around not in compliance with that policy.  Is it enforced, beyond racist and bad taste stuff I mean?

I have had my neck tattooed within the past year. It is not visible with an open-collared shirt and thus is in compliance. Anyone who had tattoos in those no longer allowed spots were grandfathered when these new regs came in (ie: did not have to remove them) provided they complied with para 9 (just as it is written below).

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Could you give me the reference for that, please?

What reference do you need that when attending a DND establishment, as a service person, you'll adhere to the rules of the CF dress regs, NDA and QR&O's?

All your time in and you're trying to stir the pot like this? You? The guy that, apparently, always has the only correct answer?

Your trolling.

You know what comes next, if you want to push it.

Milnet.ca Staff

 

[Fishbone Jones]

There is always a exception to that rule, on every single base i have been posted to. Headress must be worn unless it impedes the driver's ability to operate his/her POMV safely.

I do not wear my headress on base (or anywhere else) while driving my car. Wearing my wedge, i cannot turn my head without my wedge going to opposite direction.

Feel free to go verify that those people are just ignoring the rule because they can.

That rule has been there since they tried to put us all back in Forage caps. It makes sense and no one gets crazy about it, that I'm aware of. IIRC, there was an MP, quite a few years ago that tried to push the same issue about his beret after being repeatedly warned. He lost. However, that was back in the day that we all had coiffed hairdos to rival the greater porn stars of the era and we didn't want our headgear to muss what took us twenty minutes in the morning to get just right.

I hear some Air Force guys still have the same problem for the same reason ;D

 

[Franko]

There is always a exception to that rule, on every single base i have been posted to. Headress must be worn unless it impedes the driver's ability to operate his/her POMV safely.

I do not wear my headress on base (or anywhere else) while driving my car. Wearing my wedge, i cannot turn my head without my wedge going to opposite direction.

Feel free to go verify that those people are just ignoring the rule because they can.

Using your analogy then, there must be a hell of alot of Air Force pers on army bases. Last time I checked there was only one helicopter Sqn each in Gagetown and Petawawa.

Many of these "Air Force" pers come out of buildings that have LAVs and other large army vehicles parked in compounds, but I must be wrong.            :

 

[Franko]

Could you give me the reference for that, please?

I'll play your game, it's called Base Standing Orders. Read them.

 

[aesop081]

but I must be wrong.            :

Why don't you go and check.

I used my wedge as an example that yes, you can drive your POMV on base without wearing your headress, provided that certain conditions are met. Wether a member is RCAF, CA or RCN is irrelevant.

Been like that since i have been serving and i have been posted to the same base you are now.

 

[Franko]

Why don't you go and check.

I used my wedge as an example that yes, you can drive your POMV on base without wearing your headress, provided that certain conditions are met. Wether a member is RCAF, CA or RCN is irrelevant.

Been like that since i have been serving and i have been posted to the same base you are now.

Again, my example was that most of the offenders don't wear flight suits or wedges.

Funny thing is I saw a FOO, I personally know and he's pretty tall, wearing his forge cap in his tiny Honda on Friday out the gate immediately followed by someone I know he works with driving a full size truck without his head dress.

They just simply don't wear them or plead ignorance when confronted.

Next time your out driving, actually look at the drivers and you'll be surprised.

 

[aesop081]

Next time your out driving, actually look at the drivers and you'll be surprised.

NH, i work in the NCR, nothing would surprise me when it comes to F'ed up dress.

 

[Fdtrucker]

Wearing of head dress in POMV is not mandatory. Will post reference when I get back to work tomorrow. Will be driving there today but I have to shave before I leave and complete the IR 250.

 

[dangerboy]

Wearing of head dress in POMV is not mandatory. Will post reference when I get back to work tomorrow. Will be driving there today but I have to shave before I leave and complete the IR 250.

Military and Privately Owned Motor
Vehicles (PMV)

a. Members wearing the uniform shall wear
appropriate headdress while operating or
travelling as a passenger in all military
vehicle except:

(1) if the roof of the vehicle is too low to
permit headdress to be worn with
comfort and safety;

(2) on extended trips;

(3) on order of the senior members
present; and

(4) in a staff car, PMV or bus.

 

[cupper]

Military and Privately Owned Motor
Vehicles (PMV)

a. Members wearing the uniform shall wear
appropriate headdress while operating or
travelling as a passenger in all military
vehicle except:

(1) if the roof of the vehicle is too low to
permit headdress to be worn with
comfort and safety;

(2) on extended trips;

(3) on order of the senior members
present; and

(4) in a staff car, PMV or bus.

Right there clear as mud. This needs a rewrite to eliminate any confusion.

 

[aesop081]

Military and Privately Owned Motor
Vehicles (PMV)

a. Members wearing the uniform shall wear
appropriate headdress while operating or
travelling as a passenger in all military
vehicle except:


(4) in a staff car, PMV or bus.

There we go.

I don't know what is worse. People who don't follow the rules we have or people that enforce rules that do not exist.

 

[Ex-SHAD]

Since when has there been a problem with soldiers pressing their ACU's, I mean I've never seen anyone even the most highspeed spending their time or money to have their ACU's pressed.

 

[armyvern]

Wearing of head dress in POMV is not mandatory. Will post reference when I get back to work tomorrow. Will be driving there today but I have to shave before I leave and complete the IR 250.

Now that the little glitch in the official rules has been posted here (the double PMV bit), I'm quite sure that Ottawa will have it corrected fortwith; enough of those pers visit this site.

That still does not negate the fact that some locations publish the rule that head dress shall indeed be worn. That makes it an order. It certainly was that way in Gagetown - the location that Nerf Herder is speaking of, when I was there and he says it still is.

Be very careful when you make statements such as, "that rule doesn't exist," or "is not madatory" because, by now, you should be well aware of the fact that BSOs and ROs are "orders" and that they are legal orders too. What your base doesn't enforce (due to the ovious typo in the reg), other bases do correct and enforce via their orders.

 

[armyvern]

There we go.

I don't know what is worse. People who don't follow the rules we have or people that enforce rules that do not exist.

Pretty sure that was meant to be "SMP" and also quite sure that typo will get fixed now. Just sayin'. We do get a lot of visitors here.