• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

US Presidential Election 2020

Status
Not open for further replies.
Navy_Pete said:
Right up until they get sick, and realize the only reason they didn't die is because they had insurance under Obamacare. Or if they get COVID and then can never get coverage again as it gets counted as a pre-existing condition. That's a really big deal as they are finding a lot of people with long term effects.

It's like the various town halls they did on Fox with Bernie Sanders. He would propose things like universal health care that the audience would agree with in principle, but the same people would be rabidly against Obamacare, because it was put in place by Obama. Rationally arguing with anyone like that is a waste of time, and sometimes you just need to impose things for the greater good. I don't think the founding fathers considered the freedom to go through a windshield at 60 mph an unalienable right, but the system they designed only works if you have people acting rationally and willing to do things like compromise. It doesn't work in a hyper-partisan setup unless one side controls it all, and at that point it's effectively no real different then a form of tyranny because their electoral system allows political interference and there are a lot of clear examples of states making it really hard for people to vote in districts where they would lose a fair fight.

Which is why the US system was based on 13 states creating a higher assembly to represent their interests and why they determined that the Federal was subordinate to the States, the States to the Cities and the Cities to the Individuals.  The Federal Government only did what the States allowed.  Or, in terms that a Canadian might understand, Jean Chretien would have had to get Ralph Klein to write him a check if he wanted to spend money.  Or, as the 1791 Tenth Amendment has it, "Each state retains its sovereignty, freedom, and independence, and every power, jurisdiction, and right, which is not by this Confederation expressly delegated to the United States, in Congress assembled."

The curious fact is that a "presbyterian" President would have no powers,  the sole role would be to execute the wishes of the United States, in Congress assembled.
 
Navy_Pete said:
It's like the various town halls they did on Fox with Bernie Sanders. He would propose things like universal health care that the audience would agree with in principle, but the same people would be rabidly against Obamacare, because it was put in place by Obama. Rationally arguing with anyone like that is a waste of time, and sometimes you just need to impose things for the greater good. I

Don't tread on me! :)

The Gadsten Flag

Considered one of the first flags of the United States, the flag was later replaced by the current Stars and Stripes (or Old Glory) flag. Since the Revolution, the flag has seen resurgences as a symbol of American patriotism, disagreement with government, or support for civil liberties.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gadsden_flag
 
Who decides the greater good?

If someone's interests must be sacrificed, do the deciders add some of their own well-being to the mix?
 
Keep it classy, Nebraska.

https://twitter.com/CorkGaines/status/1324026399569727490?s=19
 
Apparently Trump has called ‘dibs’ on Pennsylvania. So that’s kinda funny, though also a bit scary and a blatant disrespect for the electoral process. But mostly funny.

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1324108200141082624?s=21
 
Major indications of vote fraud in Wisconsin and Michigan. At least the Senate is in GOP hands so that should frustrate Biden's ambitions of adding 2 new states and packing the Supreme Court.
 
tomahawk6 said:
Major indications of vote fraud in Wisconsin and Michigan. At least the Senate is in GOP hands so that should frustrate Biden's ambitions of adding 2 new states and packing the Supreme Court.

You, of course, have a source for that allegation? (I know I am going to regret this....).
 
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/going-minnesota-wisconsin-89-90-turnout-something-highly-unlikely/
 
Real news organizations are quickly debunking all these crackpot theories.

https://www.wkyc.com/amp/article/news/verify/verify-wisconsin-turnout-not-massively-larger-than-normal/507-ac05b2f4-fdfe-4bc5-91d5-7a22496c3314

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/11/04/fact-check-wisconsin-did-not-have-more-votes-than-registered-voters/6166062002/

T6, you need to do a bit better than just throwing out wild accusations and citing a garbage internet site for proof.  It literally took me 3 minutes to search for multiple sources that give actual facts and sources.

It's ironic that people who claim mainstream media sources are fake news seem to be the ones that are most easily duped by obvious disinformation from the internet's equivalent of graffiti scrawled on a truckstop toilet stall....
 
Infanteer said:
...It's ironic that people who claim mainstream media sources are fake news seem to be the ones that are most easily duped by obvious disinformation from the internet's equivalent of graffiti scrawled on a truckstop toilet stall....
Almost as ironic as some who also share MSM material on social media when it's 1)  attacking someone they dislike, and/or 2)  supports a position they support.
 
In fairness, If things were going the "other" way, we'd be full of the same type of crackpot links from the usual suspects,, just from the ones on the other side of the room
 
I don’t know.  Everything I am seeing from the MSM right now is analyzing how trump achieved what he achieved.  None of it is about cheating or stealing anything.  Just how polls got it wrong, how the latinos in Florida stepped up and how Trump’s groundwork in the final days worked out.  As well as the actual appeal to black men.

All I see from Trump and his echo chambers like Breitbart is cheating, stolen, challenges etc etc.

 
Bruce Monkhouse said:
In fairness, If things were going the "other" way, we'd be full of the same type of crackpot links from the usual suspects,, just from the ones on the other side of the room

No, because at least a decent percentage of folks would be linking to actual centrist news agencies like AP and Reuters, not sites like EndTrumpRegime.com (no, not a real site). 

At least I would, and I'd call out anyone who posts crap regardless of leaning.
 
Poignant op-ed and unfortunate truth. Win or lose, Trumpism isn’t going away.

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/6165245002?__twitter_impression=true

... I recognize this America and I wish I did not.

This is going to be a scorched earth column, so buckle up.

Yes, former Vice President Joe Biden may squeak out a victory. But even if he does, we’ve been slapped with the heartbreaking reality that nearly half our country voted for President Donald Trump after spending four years watching him spew unbridled bigotry, engage in blatant corruption, and tell so many lies you’d need a magnifying glass to read the Washington Post's running list of false and misleading claims.

My best friend just called in disgust to say he did not recognize this country. Unfortunately, I do. It’s the same country that built itself largely on the backs of slaves who had their most basic human rights stolen and whose descendants, more than 150 years after emancipation, still carry the weight of the chains that held them down.

It’s the same country that closed its eyes to Matthew Shepard, beaten and broken and tied to a fence in rural Wyoming, where he was left to die … because he was gay.

And it’s the same country where you can see countless cell phone videos of people telling Latino Americans to speak English or "stay in Mexico" or “go back" to where they came from.

Our better and worse angels


True, slightly more than half the country voted to repudiate Trump. But that’s little consolation because many of those who chose Trump did not do so out of a simple difference of political opinion on which reasonable minds can differ. We can tease out each strand of the strangle knot, but in the end this election was a contest between our better and worse angels.

We were always imperfect but America was great, in part, because of what we aspired to be:  “Land of the free,” where hard work and equality meant everyone had a shot at earning a piece of the pie. We were born a mosaic of diversity and we celebrated it.

But that’s not what some in Trump’s America want to see when they look through the window of history. They want to see their own reflection. And despite Trump’s success in leading a 67-million-person chorus of “Make America Great Again,” it’s just a TV jingle.

Protest in Philadelphia on Nov. 4, 2020.

JESSICA GRIFFIN, AP

None of the policies enacted under the Trump-branded theme song have done anything to actually make America great. Tax cuts for the wealthiest,fighting the promise of universal health care, lethal mismanagement of a pandemic, use of the Justice Department for political gain and a personal financial windfall — these are the cornerstones of a presidency best characterized by golf and failure. While half of us were repelled, the other half voted for more.

Face up to it, Democrats: We're a center left democracy hijacked by Trump and Republicans

People need to stop acting perplexed about how the polls could be so wrong. How they could show Biden up by 7 points in Michigan and still end up with a race that is almost evenly split. I never again want to hear the phrase “margin of error.” Trump knows what happened and most of us do too, if we’re willing to say it out loud.

A lot of people are buying the bigotry and division that Trump is selling — they just don’t want their family, friends, and neighbors to know it, so they don’t tell the pollsters. They’re scarfing down a Big Mac in their car, in the dark corner of a McDonald’s parking lot, before heading home and pretending to enjoy a plate of baked chicken and broccoli.

Fictitious world marketed by Fox News


Perhaps the most dangerous implication of this election is the willingness of millions of Americans to reject unpleasant realities and accept a fictitious world created by an autocrat and marketed by co-conspirator Fox News. They don’t want to believe that almost a quarter-million people just like them could be alive one minute and body bagged the next. And so, they choose to believe Trump’s “rounding the corner” announcement claiming he’s conquered the coronavirus pandemic even as the infection rate is hitting record highs — even as my partner called me two hours ago to say he’s got a fever, has been vomiting, and is too sick to stay at the hospital where he works.

Hard 2020 lessons: Democrats counted on money and Hispanic voters to deliver a blue wave. They didn't.

If things were not bad enough, Trump pronounced Tuesday night that he’d won the election and demanded an end to vote counting in states where he is ahead, while simultaneously insisting that the count continue in states where he is trailing. Trump then threatened to take his plan to steal the election to the Supreme Court, where he appointed a third of the judges and expects a warm reception. He's already filed lawsuits in Michigan and Pennsylvania (to stop the vote count), demanded a recount in Wisconsin and "claimed" to have won several states before they were decided.

I can’t believe we’re here again. I can’t believe that nearly half my fellow Americans have reelected a man so singularly focused on satisfying himself, he’d bite his mother’s breast if sweeter milk caught his eye.

When all is said and done, Trump may be defeated in a close call. But I fear Trumpism, and the ugliness it reflects, are here to stay.

 
BeyondTheNow said:
Poignant op-ed and unfortunate truth. Win or lose, Trumpism isn’t going away.

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/6165245002?__twitter_impression=true

... I recognize this America and I wish I did not.

That piece is just as pungent and insulting as the *quote* crackpot links* that  T6 posted.......are some Trump supporters like that, yes,...are some Biden supporters also like that, again yes.

But most are just like me and held our nose for his tweets/twitters/whatever those things are, and supported his dealings with a real threat, China and loved his criminal reform policies that most poor minorities supported also...bigotry indeed.


 
Bruce Monkhouse said:
< snip > most poor minorities supported also...bigotry indeed.

Your source, please.

Pew Research Centre

OCTOBER 26, 2020

What the 2020 electorate looks like by party, race and ethnicity, age, education and religion
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/10/26/what-the-2020-electorate-looks-like-by-party-race-and-ethnicity-age-education-and-religion/

Nonwhites make up four- in-ten Democratic voters, but fewer than a fifth of Republican voters.


 
Bruce Monkhouse said:
That piece is just as pungent and insulting as the *quote* crackpot links* that  T6 posted.......are some Trump supporters like that, yes,...are some Biden supporters also like that, again yes.

But most are just like me and held our nose for his tweets/twitters/whatever those things are, and supported his dealings with a real threat, China and loved his criminal reform policies that most poor minorities supported also...bigotry indeed.

I agree to a point, and the author made it clear at the beginning that it was a  “scorched earth” writing. But you/we’re also viewing things/forming our opinions & perspectives from the lens of being outside looking in, and even Canada’s most far leaning Conservatives/T supporters are nowhere near the intensity found in the US...and in very high concentrations in some areas.

As has been mentioned before, if nothing else, Trump’s style of leadership has given a voice to all of those who’d remained silent; knowing their views/ideologies were likely to be frowned upon. We already knew there was (still) a fundamental divide between left/right and the issues not altogether dissimilar from the days of their civil war. It was meant to drive a point, as most op-eds are. The ingrained, extreme divisiveness in the US is detrimental to them moving forward as a whole nation in any meaningful way—at least for the foreseeable future.
 
Things did go the "other" way in 2016, and years of crackpot behaviour resulted.

People who persist in seeing things through the lens of "how could anyone vote for that guy" are imposing their priors and weightings of factors on someone else (many "someone elses") and proceeding to draw conclusions from those (invalid, subjectively weighted) assumptions.  That's basically GIGO.  It's also likely to increase friction unnecessarily; the guy who voted based on improvement in his employment situation last year is unlikely to listen to someone whose only mode of communication is "you're a racist enabler".  Cling to it if you wish.

Whether or not members of demographic group "X" support a particular policy, and whether they support a particular candidate or party, are two different things and cannot be compared.  For example, "poor minorities" could easily approve of criminal justice reform but still prefer to vote Democrat.

[Add: you want ugly, look at the "privileged" people writing articles denouncing minorities for voting Republican.]
 
[Add: you want ugly, look at the "privileged" people writing articles denouncing minorities for voting Republican.]

Agree Brad. (There’s no way—for many—to get away from the ‘how could you vote for that person’ mentality—it’s a very human and common reaction for most. I’ve certainly had my fair share of wtaf moments and feeling very little tolerance to others’ opinions. When we don’t understand the intrinsic ‘whys’ of a person’s actions, we’re not able to easily process their motives.)

I’ve seen/read some absolutely horrid remarks from those on both sides of the spectrum. There’s simply no way to justify the vitriol. Rationalization and basic humanity has been overridden in favour of shaming, blaming and hating. Also a clear indication of the sheer amount of pain, hurt & abandonment being felt by that nation.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top