US Presidential Election 2024 - Trump vs Harris - Vote Hard with a Vengence

[CBH99]

So, if I’m reading this right, the issue is the timing (within 90 days of the election), not so much the removal.

I think I'm reading it the same way you are Dimsum...

I have a question for those who know more than I - is 'removing voters from the election rolls' something that should be of concern, or not? Is it normal to remove voters from election rolls?

(Wtf is an election roll, anyway?)

 

[dimsum]

I think I'm reading it the same way you are Dimsum...

I have a question for those who know more than I - is 'removing voters from the election rolls' something that should be of concern, or not? Is it normal to remove voters from election rolls?

(Wtf is an election roll, anyway?)

Election rolls are the lists of eligible voters.

And yes, it’s normal to remove voters if, for example, they moved out of that state/municipality. Especially since in the US, it’s not like an “Elections US” body that governs federal elections (unlike Elections Canada) but rather each state has their own separate system.

The latest ep of Jon Stewart’s The Weekly Show podcast breaks it down pretty well. It’s long but worth a watch/listen.

 

[CBH99]

Election rolls are the lists of eligible voters.

And yes, it’s normal to remove voters if, for example, they moved out of that state/municipality. Especially since in the US, it’s not like an “Elections US” body that governs federal elections (unlike Elections Canada) but rather each state has their own separate system.

The latest ep of Jon Stewart’s The Weekly Show podcast breaks it down pretty well. It’s long but worth a watch/listen.

Very much appreciated - Thank You!

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I think I'm reading it the same way you are Dimsum...

I have a question for those who know more than I - is 'removing voters from the election rolls' something that should be of concern, or not? Is it normal to remove voters from election rolls?

(Wtf is an election roll, anyway?)

Some elections end up being contested over a few thousand votes. Some states have removed over a million ineligible voters from their rolls, just this last time.

 

[QV]

Some elections end up being contested over a few thousand votes. Some states have removed over a million ineligible voters from their rolls, just this last time.

I wonder... in who's interest is it to keep tens of thousands, or much more, ineligible voters on on the rolls?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I wonder... in who's interest is it to keep tens of thousands, or much more, ineligible voters on on the rolls?

Judicial Watch is successfully suing blue states for not cleaning their voter rolls and the DOJ is suing red states for following their laws and vetting their voter rolls.

Guess which ones are fighting to keep dead and ineligible voters on the rolls.

 

[Lumber]

Judicial Watch is successfully suing blue states for not cleaning their voter rolls and the DOJ is suing red states for following their laws and vetting their voter rolls.

Guess which ones are fighting to keep dead and ineligible voters on the rolls.

There are far more Republican organizations suing states than there are Democratic organization suing states about their voter rolls.

Further, the right-leaning Heritage Foundation’s databaseof confirmed fraud cases lists fewer than 100 examples of non-citizens voting between 2002 and 2022, amid more than 1 billion lawfully cast ballots.

So why are they doing it? It's intended to create controversy and undermine confidence in the election.

So, maybe Lawfare is a thing, it's just being done by the opposite side that you think it is.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Or maybe they just want to stop blue states breaking the law. The better question is why blue states refuse to clean up their voter rolls, stop illegal voting and are willing to carry so many ineligible voters on their rolls? When someone who should not be on the roll votes, they steal a valid vote from a legal voter. The number is immaterial, one is too many.

 

[Brad Sallows]

The number of confirmed cases of non-citizens voting - or any other kind of fraud - is not a confirmation of the number of attempts, successful or unsuccessful. If no-one is trying very hard to detect fraud in the places where controls are less stringent or the incumbent authorities are not particularly moved to apply the controls they do have, it's probable that some fraud goes undetected. Whether or not fraud is decisive depends on close election results, which happens infrequently. Infrequency is not an excuse for laxity.

All of that is almost beside the point. An essential component of "peaceful transfers of power" is trust in the electoral system, which is an intangible quality influenced by appearances. A weak-looking system invites doubt, dissent, and denial. People who disapprove of those ought to favour strong voting controls, rigorously and routinely applied. Negligence in the matter of keeping registries accurate is irresponsible, and resistance to keeping registries accurate is even more irresponsible.

 

[Blackadder1916]

There are far more Republican organizations suing states than there are Democratic organization suing states about their voter rolls.

Further, the right-leaning Heritage Foundation’s databaseof confirmed fraud cases lists fewer than 100 examples of non-citizens voting between 2002 and 2022, amid more than 1 billion lawfully cast ballots.

So why are they doing it? It's intended to create controversy and undermine confidence in the election.

So, maybe Lawfare is a thing, it's just being done by the opposite side that you think it is.

Admittedly a liberal/progressive leaning site, but it does maintain a comprehensive database of election related lawsuits.

Court Cases

Learn about the lawsuits that Democracy Docket is keeping an eye on.

www.democracydocket.com

Court Cases​

Learn more about the lawsuits shaping voting rights, redistricting and elections by exploring Democracy Docket’s comprehensive database of cases. Click on any case to find a brief summary of the lawsuit and all relevant filings in the “case documents” section.

The site is referenced in this piece about the abundance of election related lawsuits.

Most lawsuits challenging voter rolls, registration have little impact

Apart from Arizona’s new registration requirement, voters face few new hurdles

thefulcrum.us

. . .
Election analysts have reported that there are more than 100 lawsuits across America that target different steps in the process. According to Democracy Docket — a voting rights news platform that tracks election litigation — more than a dozen suits challenging the NVRA have been filed in 2024’s seven battleground states (Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, North Carolina, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin).

Almost all challenge technical aspects of the NVRA. For example, they allege:

• More voters on voter rolls than adults over age 18 (Arizona, Michigan, Nevada, Pennsylvania).
• Hundreds of thousands of, or more than a million, errors in voter data (Michigan, North Carolina, Wisconsin).
• State isn’t following the National Voter Registration Act (Michigan, Nevada, Pennsylvania).
• Voters illegally used commercial addresses to register (Nevada).
• State using disallowed, out-of-state data to vet voters (Wisconsin).
• Not disclosing data/information used to vet voters (Pennsylvania).

Most of these claims have not been factually evaluated. And there are yet more voter-list-centered lawsuits. However, a large number of partisan suits does not mean there are massive problems. Indeed, on Oct. 7, the Supreme Court declined to hear a Pennsylvania suit challenging a White House directive to expand registration.
. . .

 

[dimsum]

Or maybe they just want to stop blue states breaking the law. The better question is why blue states refuse to clean up their voter rolls, stop illegal voting and are willing to carry so many ineligible voters on their rolls? When someone who should not be on the roll votes, they steal a valid vote from a legal voter. The number is immaterial, one is too many.

The even better question is why there isn’t an “Elections USA” instead of 50 separate election systems for the same election.

 

[Pelorus]

Judicial Watch is successfully suing blue states for not cleaning their voter rolls and the DOJ is suing red states for following their laws and vetting their voter rolls.

Guess which ones are fighting to keep dead and ineligible voters on the rolls.

Given that the history of voter suppression in the US skews heavily towards being perpetrated by conservatives, primarily intended to stop minorities from being able to fairly exercise their democratic rights, you'll have to excuse my skepticism that there's any sort of noble intention behind what Judicial Watch and similar groups are currently doing.

 

[Lumber]

Or maybe they just want to stop blue states breaking the law. The better question is why blue states refuse to clean up their voter rolls, stop illegal voting and are willing to carry so many ineligible voters on their rolls? When someone who should not be on the roll votes, they steal a valid vote from a legal voter. The number is immaterial, one is too many.

Blue states? Many of these lawsuits are against red states. Georgia: Republican governor. Nevada: Republican governor. Arizona: Democrat Governor but with a strong Republican legislature. North Carolina: Democrat governor with a strong Republican legislature. Wisconsin: Democrat governor with a strong Republican legislature.

So how is this a blue state issue?

 

[Lumber]

The number of confirmed cases of non-citizens voting - or any other kind of fraud - is not a confirmation of the number of attempts, successful or unsuccessful. If no-one is trying very hard to detect fraud in the places where controls are less stringent or the incumbent authorities are not particularly moved to apply the controls they do have, it's probable that some fraud goes undetected. Whether or not fraud is decisive depends on close election results, which happens infrequently. Infrequency is not an excuse for laxity.

All of that is almost beside the point. An essential component of "peaceful transfers of power" is trust in the electoral system, which is an intangible quality influenced by appearances. A weak-looking system invites doubt, dissent, and denial. People who disapprove of those ought to favour strong voting controls, rigorously and routinely applied. Negligence in the matter of keeping registries accurate is irresponsible, and resistance to keeping registries accurate is even more irresponsible.

Ok, if you want to talk about the problem of trust in the electoral system, outdated voter rolls in both blue and red states is not the problem. The relentless spread of misinformation, fear-mongering, and false claims by the GOP is the real issue.

 

[KevinB]

At the end of the day out of date voter rolls aren’t an issue by themselves.

The issue is if they are misused for fraudulent mail in votes. But it’s also a disgraceful act to remove folks who are likely not to notice. Now if you vote in person, and you where stricken from the rolls for some reason, you can prove you are 1) a citizen of the USA 2) a resident of that voting district and still have your vote counted. But not everyone votes in person, or shows up the polls with their passport and two forms of ID to show their legal residency (and not all states accept their own Drivers Licenses for that)

Generally in the past it was a Democratic Party effort to suppress the Black vote, however there has been a flip of that effort into the MAGA Republican base. The same folks who drink Russian disinformation like it’s lite beer.

 

[lenaitch]

The even better question is why there isn’t an “Elections USA” instead of 50 separate election systems for the same election.

Because their Constitution (Article II) says the President is elected by Electors appointed by each State (Electoral College).

 

[brihard]

Admittedly a liberal/progressive leaning site, but it does maintain a comprehensive database of election related lawsuits.

Court Cases

Learn about the lawsuits that Democracy Docket is keeping an eye on.

www.democracydocket.com

Democracy Docket is explicitly Democratic aligned. It’s run by Marc Elias, who probably has by far the strongest record of any lawyer in the U.S. on election related limitation. His name is pretty much a swear word among the Republican establishment.

 

[Pelorus]

The even better question is why there isn’t an “Elections USA” instead of 50 separate election systems for the same election.

Ride or die Federalism (Some Conditions Apply).

 

[dimsum]

Generally in the past it was a Democratic Party effort to suppress the Black vote, however there has been a flip of that effort into the MAGA Republican base. The same folks who drink Russian disinformation like it’s lite beer.

And another opportunity to bring up this gem from the last election…

 

[Brad Sallows]

The even better question is why there isn’t an “Elections USA” instead of 50 separate election systems for the same election.

Article I section 4 means the states are involved. The US is a republic, not a monarchy.