US Presidential Election 2024 - Trump vs Harris - Vote Hard with a Vengence

[Blackadder1916]

Also word of current management being invited as well ....

Decorated vet senator rips Kamala Harris, Biden for being AWOL as Trump consoled Gold Star families at Arlington

“Where were they? Joe Biden was sitting at a beach. Kamala Harris was sitting at her mansion in Washington, DC,” said GOP Sen. Tom Cotton of Arkansas.

nypost.com

Biden, who skipped Arlington event for vacation, trashed Trump in June for declining cemetery visit

President Biden was criticized for spending the Kabul airport attack anniversary on vacation, despite previously calling out former President Donald Trump for calling off a memorial visit.

www.foxnews.com

And the White House response

White House says Biden and Harris weren’t invited to Arlington Cemetery by families of service members killed during Afghanistan withdrawal

Biden's and Harris' teams pushed back against claims from GOP Sen. Tom Cotton and former Rep. Tulsi Gabbard that that had been invited alongside Trump.

www.nbcnews.com

Gold Star families did not invite President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris to Arlington National Cemetery by last week to commemorate the third anniversary of the attack at Abbey Gate in Afghanistan, a White House official and a Harris aide told NBC News, rebutting separate claims made Sunday by GOP Sen. Tom Cotton and former Rep. Tulsi Gabbard.

The two were speaking about former President Donald Trump's visit last week to Arlington National Cemetery, where he has drawn criticism for posing for photos with Gold Star families in a section of the cemetery where photos are traditionally prohibited.

Last week, White House National Security Council spokesman John Kirby said Trump’s visit was a “personal invitation by families.”

“There are many ways that we as a nation and our leaders can observe the third anniversary of Abbey Gate,” Kirby said. “Another way is to continue to work, maybe not with a lot of fanfare, maybe not with a lot of public attention, maybe not with TV cameras, but to work every single day to make sure that the families of the fallen and of those who were injured and wounded — not just at Abbey Gate but over the course of the 20-some-odd years that we were in Afghanistan — have the support that they need.”

The Army also accused a member of Trump's campaign staff of "abruptly push[ing] aside" a cemetery staff member who sought to enforce restrictions on taking photos and video at the location.

Asked about the incident Sunday on NBC News' "Meet the Press," Cotton, R-Ark., told moderator Kristen Welker: "These families, Gold Star families, whose children died because of Joe Biden and Kamala Harris’ incompetence invited [Trump] to the cemetery and they asked him to take those photos. ... You know who the families also invited? Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. Where were they? Joe Biden was sitting at a beach. Kamala Harris was sitting at her mansion in Washington, D.C."

Cotton said he spoke to Kelly Barnett and Darin Hoover, the parents of Marine Staff Sgt. Darin Taylor Hoover, who died in Afghanistan three years ago. Cotton didn't specify whether they were the family members he claimed invited Biden and Harris.

Gabbard, a former Democratic House member from Hawaii, echoed Cotton, telling CNN on Sunday: "President Biden and Harris, I heard, were invited by some of these family members. They not only didn’t come; they didn’t even respond to that invitation."

Trump last week defended the photos and videos he took at the cemetery, telling NBC News in Michigan on Thursday that a Gold Star family "asked me whether or not I would stand for a picture at the grave of their loved one who should not have died.”

He said he didn’t initiate the photo, adding: “While I was there, I didn’t ask for a picture. While I was there, they said, ‘Sir, could we have a picture at the grave?’"

 

[Lumber]

Thing is, support from the Gold Star families still doesn’t make it legal to then create campaign material. And ironically, Trump later even mentioning Harris makes it even worse - Trump could have cut that part out and say it was a memorial service and that could have passed the sniff test. He was invited, he made some remarks, end of story.

But no, because he later posted on Truth Social after the videos came out and Harris responded, he definitely made it a political campaign thing.

All of this fanfare in the media and online about this visit?

This is EXACTLY why those rules are in place; THIS isn't supposed to happen.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Convention? He dropped out on 21 July.

The RNC was the week before - hence why Vance was picked bc they were laser-focused on Biden. The DNC was in mid-August.

22:30 (roughly) on the first day of the convention was the speaking slot they gave him. Not exactly the mark of a grateful party.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I found this opinion piece in the LA Times about her speaking style to be very interesting.

And also, she is a lawyer, more importantly a trial lawyer, who likely honed her verbal style to suit her profession.

Thanks for the article link.

Her style and vocabulary are an interesting puzzle to figure out. When she speaks her "cars are made to drive and cars use roads, and they drive on tires!" drivel it sounds like she's trying to spewk to 5 year olds. Maybe the take away is that she thinks the average US citizen has the education of a 5 year old.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Thanks for the article link.

Her style and vocabulary are an interesting puzzle to figure out. When she speaks her "cars are made to drive and cars us roads, and they drive on tires" drivel it sounds like she's trying to spewk to 5 year olds. Maybe the take away is that she thinks the average US citizen has the education of a 5 year old.

It's not US citizens. She has some substantial limitations of her own. Her infamous reference to computer files on a cloud was an example (during a talk about privacy issues over a decade ago). I suppose she thought it was a useful way to illustrate a point about evolving privacy issues, but it revealed an unusual mode of thinking and expressing herself on a matter about which she was evidently ignorant.

 

[brihard]

It's not US citizens. She has some substantial limitations of her own. Her infamous reference to computer files on a cloud was an example (during a talk about privacy issues over a decade ago). I suppose she thought it was a useful way to illustrate a point about evolving privacy issues, but it revealed an unusual mode of thinking and expressing herself on a matter about which she was evidently ignorant.

Remarkably on point regarding digital privacy and technological ignorance while giving interviews or statements, Trump is still sitting here thinking Bleachbit software is physically acid…

https://twitter.com/x/status/1830400180216295628

Would that “unusual mode of thinking and expressing [one]self on a matter about which [one] was evidently ignorant” still mattered in elections, but alas- we’re post-fact.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Remarkably on point regarding digital privacy and technological ignorance while giving interviews or statements, Trump is still sitting here thinking Bleachbit software is physically acid…

https://twitter.com/x/status/1830400180216295628

Would that “unusual mode of thinking and expressing [one]self on a matter about which [one] was evidently ignorant” still mattered in elections, but alas- we’re post-fact.

Yes. With a lawyer's education, Harris should be capable of clearing a much higher bar, though. As I've written before, rolling out examples of Trump's ignorance and rude behaviour doesn't make a candidate look better when the candidate's essential argument is basically supposed to be "I'm better than Trump".

 

[brihard]

Yes. With a lawyer's education, Harris should be capable of clearing a much higher bar, though. As I've written before, rolling out examples of Trump's ignorance and rude behaviour doesn't make a candidate look better when the candidate's essential argument is basically supposed to be "I'm better than Trump".

Sure. Unfortunately, that’s where we’re at. That Harris is a viable candidate at all is just a sign of how badly the Republicans have let their self-respect and respect for the governance of the country atrophy. In a world where the Republicans took leadership of America seriously and primaries accordingly, Harris would get destroyed if she ever made it to the ballot. But they don’t, so she doesn’t.

As much as I enter our own elections with my nose held looking for a not-awful option, frig, I’m glad I’m not stuck being a voter down there…

 

[The Bread Guy]

Sure. Unfortunately, that’s where we’re at. That Harris is a viable candidate at all is just a sign of how badly the Republicans have let their self-respect and respect for the governance of the country atrophy. In a world where the Republicans took leadership of America seriously and primaries accordingly, Harris would get destroyed if she ever made it to the ballot. But they don’t, so she doesn’t ...

Down to voting for the least-worst candidate - sound familiar?

 

[Brad Sallows]

The old establishment Republicans many people long for are substantially responsible for the current situation. The ill-considered and incompetently executed overthrow of the Iraqi government did not yield the result they advertised (eg. some kind of "colour" or "Spring" revolution resulting in a new polity and institutions which would be increasingly pro-democracy). That blunder was costly to Americans. Most barely managed to apologize years later - if at all - while habitually calling for new American military action abroad. Taking sides with the Democrats rather than staying within the party and persevering, or at worst simply standing apart, was another fatal flaw. Democrats have assisted by swinging for the fences with progressive candidates only somewhat to the right of Bernie Sanders. Part of what props up Trump's chances is the realignment - maybe temporary - of non-college-educated voters. It's almost impossible to stress enough the question: Do they really feel entitled to alternate control between the two sides of the "uniparty" and push policies detrimental to or inconsiderate of "the people" indefinitely?

People keep asking "why" questions about what they imagine are disqualifying contradictions that should rule out voting Trump. In most cases it appears they have not considered how the likely or declared alternatives weigh in the minds of voters.

Once the question of candidates is a choice between substandard ones - Biden/Trump, or Harris/Trump - the new question is a choice of administration. Internationally interventionist, or not. More religious expression tolerance, or less. Spend gobs of money on illegal immigrants and forgiving federal college debt, or not. Hostile to 2A, or not. Permissive federal abortion law, or "states decide". Etc.

 

[OldSolduer]

Yes. With a lawyer's education, Harris should be capable of clearing a much higher bar, though.

I have never really heard her speak so I will reserve judgment. BUT some people do need to have everything spoon fed to them.

 

[dimsum]

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-says-he-had-every-right-interfere-2020-election-2024-09-02/

In another example of “things you shouldn’t be saying in public”…

I guess he’s now shifting from “I didn’t interfere” to “I totally am justified in interfering”.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Down to voting for the least-worst candidate - sound familiar?

It started in the circa 1960 (late 1950s, actually) when the advertising agencies and political tacticians hooked up and appreciated that the vast majority of voters could be influenced far, far more (and far more easily) by Madison Avenue schtick than by boring old facts about, say, the economy or world affairs. It spread to very quickly.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Harris's problem isn't that she talks like a lawyer; it's that she sometimes talks in platitudes and the platitudes often end up sounding like nonsense.

I like the ways she changes accents depending on who she is speaking to. The best was her convention speech where she tried to be Obama.

 

[dimsum]

I like the ways she changes accents depending on who she is speaking to. The best was her convention speech where she tried to be Obama.

That is actually something called “accommodation” or “the chameleon effect”, and while it may be conscious, it could be subconscious as well.

Why Do We Change the Way We Speak Depending on Whom We’re Speaking to? | ALTA Language Services

In a recent BBC article, subtle changes in Meghan Markle’s accent following her marriage to Prince Harry were brought into question. The Duchess of Sussex hails from California, but linguistics experts have noted that, recently, she has begun slipping in and out of more British inflections...

altalang.com

I catch myself slipping into another accent (usually badly) within a few days of travelling somewhere with a different accent. Or, if I speak to my parents in my native language (which has a distinct accented form of English), whenever I switch to English mid-sentence for a term, I will subconsciously say that term in the accented English, not the North American accent I usually have.

Then again, I’m guessing that her staff hasn’t told her to stop doing it, since accommodation would subconsciously make the speaker seem closer to the listener.

 

[brihard]

That is actually something called “accommodation” or “the chameleon effect”, and while it may be conscious, it could be subconscious as well.

Why Do We Change the Way We Speak Depending on Whom We’re Speaking to? | ALTA Language Services

In a recent BBC article, subtle changes in Meghan Markle’s accent following her marriage to Prince Harry were brought into question. The Duchess of Sussex hails from California, but linguistics experts have noted that, recently, she has begun slipping in and out of more British inflections...

altalang.com

I catch myself slipping into another accent (usually badly) within a few days of travelling somewhere with a different accent. Or, if I speak to my parents in my native language (which has a distinct accented form of English), whenever I switch to English mid-sentence for a term, I will subconsciously say that term in the accented English, not the North American accent I usually have.

Then again, I’m guessing that her staff hasn’t told her to stop doing it, since accommodation would subconsciously make the speaker seem closer to the listener.

I’ll speak fairly differently depending on my environment and audience too. Briefing or professional engagement with some senior officers/execs? I’m gonna sound very different from if I’m talking just with my crew, and that will also differ from how I am with some of my immediate direct management. If I’m dealing with the public it can also vary depending on who I’m talking with, their background and position, and the nature and subject of the interaction. This isn’t an inherently weird thing. Many of us have to do this professionally to optimize our communication.

 

[Remius]

That is actually something called “accommodation” or “the chameleon effect”, and while it may be conscious, it could be subconscious as well.

Why Do We Change the Way We Speak Depending on Whom We’re Speaking to? | ALTA Language Services

In a recent BBC article, subtle changes in Meghan Markle’s accent following her marriage to Prince Harry were brought into question. The Duchess of Sussex hails from California, but linguistics experts have noted that, recently, she has begun slipping in and out of more British inflections...

altalang.com

I catch myself slipping into another accent (usually badly) within a few days of travelling somewhere with a different accent. Or, if I speak to my parents in my native language (which has a distinct accented form of English), whenever I switch to English mid-sentence for a term, I will subconsciously say that term in the accented English, not the North American accent I usually have.

Then again, I’m guessing that her staff hasn’t told her to stop doing it, since accommodation would subconsciously make the speaker seem closer to the listener.

Happens a lot with French speakers. My accent will change from French Canadian slang talk to a more formalized French situation and crowd dependent. Then there is my mangled franglais when speaking with Franco Ontariens

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I’ll speak fairly differently depending on my environment and audience too. Briefing or professional engagement with some senior officers/execs? I’m gonna sound very different from if I’m talking just with my crew, and that will also differ from how I am with some of my immediate direct management. If I’m dealing with the public it can also vary depending on who I’m talking with, their background and position, and the nature and subject of the interaction. This isn’t an inherently weird thing. Many of us have to do this professionally to optimize our communication.

Do you speak with a southern accent in Georgia? Then a Midwest accent in Michigan? And an Obama one when speaking to the DNC? I'm sorry, I know you two are trying to blunt damage to Harris and making the argument that the many voices of Kamala are professional. I find it disingenuous and if she were doing it with me, I would find it insulting. But that's just me.

 

[dimsum]

Do you speak with a southern accent in Georgia? A Midwest accent in Michigan?

After a day or two in different parts of the US, I notice my accent shifting, yes.

Again, even if it was intentional, I don’t see how that’s a “gotcha”.

Edit to add: It would be a “gotcha” if she was using those accents to denigrate the listener, like putting on a fake East Indian accent to make fun of them. Is she doing that?

 

[dimsum]

Do you speak with a southern accent in Georgia? Then a Midwest accent in Michigan? And an Obama one when speaking to the DNC? I'm sorry, I know you two are trying to blunt damage to Harris and making the argument that the many voices of Kamala are professional. I find it disingenuous and if she were doing it with me, I would find it insulting. But that's just me.

I’m interested to know why you find it disingenuous. Is it because you think she’s changing her accent to somehow denigrate the audience in those places? Because I would argue that someone trying to match the audience (or in the DNC, the energy level bc Obama has a pretty typical North American accent I would say) isn’t insulting at all.

Or is it that you think she’s “trying too hard” when she’s doing that? I can understand that argument.