US Presidential Election 2024 - Trump vs Harris - Vote Hard with a Vengence

[QV]

Regarding the next possible debate.

First, I like the format that has been established. CNN did a fantastic job, even considering their bias, surprising everyone. Questions and discussions to both candidates were fair and measured. They stuck to the rules. CNN took flak for not being harder on Trump, from its own supporters.

The ABC debate was everything CNNs wasn't.

If a third debate is scheduled, it should be Trump’s pick of who runs it and where it takes place. Twice, Trump has stuck his head in the lions mouth to placate the democrats. It should be his choice now.

If the dems are serious about a third debate, they should agree to this.

Agree. Trump has demonstrated a willingness to take risks like this. The other side has not.

 

[Brad Sallows]

They couldn’t keep Trump within the allotted time when the mics were “muted”. Even then, he was allowed to interject after the rebuttal was done.

It would be a shouting match worthy of a Gr 2 classroom.

That's got nothing to do with interjecting with information. Cutting off the speaker is just cutting off the speaker.

Muted mics were there because Biden's campaign thought it would give Biden an advantage; when Democrats determined that muted mics were disadvantageous to Harris, they wanted unmuted mics.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Not a photoshop. Biden was having fun at a whistle stop.
Apparently the White House was a tad upset the pic hit the wire.
View attachment 87935

They shouldn't be. Biden was clearly just having fun with the moment. Anyone defensive over the matter is as lost to reason as the people who think Biden wearing the hat was some kind of pro-Trump "gotcha".

 

[dimsum]

A few points. Observation only.

Trump was fact checked on numerous occasions. Harris was fact checked zero times.
The disparity of questions. Harris got some softballs. Trump had hard questions Harris didn't.
Harris was devoid of detail. Talking in generalities, the policy page on her site is pretty well a cut and paste of bidens web site. Again, lacking any detail.
Trump gave a warmed of version of his rally speeches. His policies are there for the reading. They are the same policies he's been repeating at every whistle stop. People know what Trump stands for. Harris is still an enigma to most voters.
Focus groups of undecided voters made point that they still don't know what Harris stands for and were disappointed she didn't speak to the real problems they are facing. Many voiced that no matter the debate, things were better for them under Trump. Under the Harris term people are far less solvent because of her existing programs. Straw polls have shown a decent amount of undecideds have moved to Trump after the debate.
Harris hasn't explained her flip flops. Bernie Sanders has stated she remains the progressive she has been for years and right now is just doing what she needs to do to get elected.
Bernie Sanders has also stated that the middle working class is in dire straights. That can be laid directly at her feet.

Harris has admitted that Dana Walden, an executive at ABC/disney, and she are 'extraordinary friends.' A relationship that reaches back to 1994, and Walden has made donations to Harris' various campaigns of at least $20,000, since 2003. This has been brought up as a massive conflict of interest.

Everything here is open source from various sites. I'm just putting it all in one spot. There is much more if one wants to look. Agree or disagree is not any concern of mine.

My personal opinion is that this was a wash. Neither candidate is going to get much of a bump out of this, if any.

I’m curious where you got the disparity of questions when I (who watched the debate real time) saw that they asked the exact same question to each candidate.

Now, they alternated who got the question first, but they both got the question.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

It's not just about the "bias" of Newsmax, it's who actually uses Newsmax. I just tried to check out their poll, and you have to sign-up to get the results.

Who actually gets their news from Newsmax? Trump supporters. Who would actually sign up to get those poll results? Trump supporters. So of course the Newmax poll is going to say Trump won.

The other major news outlets, both left leaning and right leaning, including Fox, didnt just leave a poll on their website for their actual adherents to sign up for, they reached out and tried as best they could to find a large swathe of people. Bias aside, those major news outlets are watched and visited by a much broader swathe of people than Newsmax, and this swath includes both Democrat and Republican supporters, and they are all saying the same thing; Harris won the debate.

I gave you the solution. A smart guy like you should be able to figure it out.

 

[QV]

Not a photoshop. Biden was having fun at a whistle stop.
Apparently the White House was a tad upset the pic hit the wire.
View attachment 87935

Just can't have fun anymore hey

 

[dimsum]

Some context re: Biden wearing a Trump hat.

Joe Biden dons Trump hat in show of unity at event commemorating 9/11 – video

The White House said the gesture was a show of 'bipartisan unity' adding that the country 'needed to get back to that'

www.theguardian.com

Since he’s not running, it would be a devious move for him and the WH to extend this olive branch (such as it is) and see the Trump campaign’s response. If the GOP still continue with the “Biden is the worst President ever” line, then the WH could easily swing back and say “well the POTUS tried to extend that olive branch, but it wasn’t reciprocated.”

 

[Brad Sallows]

I’m curious where you got the disparity of questions when I (who watched the debate real time) saw that they asked the exact same question to each candidate.

Now, they alternated who got the question first, but they both got the question.

One way in which a question can be "hard" and introduce disparity is if it places one candidate on the spot, and then the other candidate is offered the question essentially as an opportunity to pass the first candidate under the harrow. A further disparity arises if the candidate on the spot is allowed to simply avoid answering the question asked without moderators insisting it eventually be directly answered.

 

[dimsum]

I gave you the solution. A smart guy like you should be able to figure it out.

Well I’m just a dumb aircrew guy. Care to explain?

 

[dimsum]

One way in which a question can be "hard" and introduce disparity is if it places one candidate on the spot, and then the other candidate is offered the question essentially as an opportunity to pass the first candidate under the harrow. A further disparity arises if the candidate on the spot is allowed to simply avoid answering the question asked without moderators insisting it eventually be directly answered.

Sure, but practically how could that be avoided? Having them both answer at once?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Some context re: Biden wearing a Trump hat.

Joe Biden dons Trump hat in show of unity at event commemorating 9/11 – video

The White House said the gesture was a show of 'bipartisan unity' adding that the country 'needed to get back to that'

www.theguardian.com

We don't need any Jean Pierre spin. As I stated, Biden was just having fun. Don't try rearrange the tea leaves to make it political. If you actually watch the exchange, he was having some light hearted banter with a Trump supporter, who asked Biden to try it on. Which he did, with a great big smile. Nowhere did Biden mention 9/11. This was not an official photo, as the WH Press Pool was left outside

 

[QV]

We don't need any Jean Pierre spin. As I stated, Biden was just having fun. Don't try rearrange the tea leaves to make it political. If you actually watch the exchange, he was having some light hearted banter with a Trump supporter, who asked Biden to try it on. Which he did, with a great big smile. Nowhere did Biden mention 9/11. This was not an official photo, as the WH Press Pool was left outside

Which actually makes Biden look human.

 

[dimsum]

We don't need any Jean Pierre spin. As I stated, Biden was just having fun. Don't try rearrange the tea leaves to make it political. If you actually watch the exchange, he was having some light hearted banter with a Trump supporter, who asked Biden to try it on. Which he did, with a great big smile. Nowhere did Biden mention 9/11. This was not an official photo, as the WH Press Pool was left outside

I didn’t mention that Biden mentioned 9/11. That was what the Guardian, the BBC, etc said in their headlines.

The event itself was to commemorate 9/11.

If the WH hasn’t thought of a way that the picture could be made political (hell, a random guy like me made the possible connection in about 0.33 seconds), then they’re not doing their job.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Well I’m just a dumb aircrew guy. Care to explain?

Ground News.

 

[KevinB]

A few points. Observation only.

Trump was fact checked on numerous occasions. Harris was fact checked zero times.

Harris was fact checked - and then corrected on statements once.

The biggest take away should be simply stick to the facts, not just spew shit like the Trumpster likes to do.

34:1 Trump to Harris for errors or lies.

The fact that more Republicans aren’t seeing this as an issue just means we aren’t going to win this election.

Which honestly makes me fairly happy as it will hopefully create a massive introspection into the party and eventually 4 year from now hopefully put out a decent candidate that is worth voting for.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I didn’t mention that Biden mentioned 9/11. That was what the Guardian, the BBC, etc said in their headlines.

The event itself was to commemorate 9/11.

If the WH hasn’t thought of a way that the picture could be made political (hell, a random guy like me made the possible connection in about 0.33 seconds), then they’re not doing their job.

You're free to believe what you want to believe. I have a different view.

 

[OldSolduer]

The biggest take away should be simply stick to the facts, not just spew shit like the Trumpster likes to do.

Roger that. IF more politicians did that...

We'd probably have less politicians......maybe. Or at least somewhat honest ones.

 

[QV]

Harris was fact checked - and then corrected on statements once.

The biggest take away should be simply stick to the facts, not just spew shit like the Trumpster likes to do.

34:1 Trump to Harris for errors or lies.

The fact that more Republicans aren’t seeing this as an issue just means we aren’t going to win this election.

Which honestly makes me fairly happy as it will hopefully create a massive introspection into the party and eventually 4 year from now hopefully put out a decent candidate that is worth voting for.

I don't think you have 4 years. It's now or never, Trump or never. How many more millions of illegals will that be voting in your elections by then? Potentially packing the supreme court. Economy devastated. Censorship expanded. Firearm bans.

You're better off with the next 4 years of Trump - then a decent candidate.

 

[dimsum]

You're free to believe what you want to believe. I have a different view.

Honest question: A different view of what?

That Biden was at a 9/11 event, or that the WH would have an issue with something that could be seen as politically motivated a few months to the election?

 

[dimsum]

I don't think you have 4 years. It's now or never, Trump or never. How many more millions of illegals will that be voting in your elections by then? Potentially packing the supreme court. Economy devastated. Censorship expanded. Firearm bans.

You're better off with the next 4 years of Trump - then a decent candidate.

For the last time.

You need to show ID to vote. Illegal immigrants, by their very name, do not have ID.

The voter fraud cases turned out to be mostly for the GOP last time around.