VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight

[Kirkhill]

"I spoke with CBC tonight and I know the source of their insight into Brison's review," Nicolas Ruszkowski, of Fleishman-Hillard wrote before the story broke.

"There is a concern the information that was transmitted was transmitted without sufficient context. CBC was told this was possibly an Irving gambit, for example and if Brison caught wind — ever — that any of Davie's [government relations/public relations] firm was managing Davie's concerns at this early stage through the media, all the while doing Irving's bidding, we would have hell to pay."

Ruszkowski went on to say that "knowing Scott Brison personally, as I do, I can tell you that suggestion is not accurate."

He also suggested he be allowed to manage the flow of information to the media at that delicate point in time as the story was unfolding.

"Where CBC is concerned, between the enormous amount of time and confidence we've invested in building a relationship with Terry Milewski and my close personal relationship with James Cudmore (we vacation together and raise our respective three-year-old boys together), I'd ask that activities be coordinated through [Fleishman-Hillard]."

Nowt to see here folks.  You can move along now and let your betters sort these things out for you.  Don't forget to tug that forelock as you go by.

 

[FJAG]

A bit late on posting this one but being an old fan of the Asterix and Obelix comics, I'm a bit chuffed by the fact that the new Auxillary Oiler/Replenishment ship will continue to carry the Asterix name.

http://www.navy-marine.forces.gc.ca/en/news-operations/news-view.page?doc=interim-aor-unveiled-at-ceremony-in-quebec/j6wnzw5w

:cheers:

 

[Kirkhill]

Asterix is afloat.
https://twitter.com/chantierdavie/status/904692691002433538


And, Obelix is the planned sister.  I do like a sense of humour.
http://www.davie.ca/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/DEFSEC-FOR-WEB.pdf

 

[FJAG]

Asterix is afloat.
https://twitter.com/chantierdavie/status/904692691002433538


And, Obelix is the planned sister.  I do like a sense of humour.
http://www.davie.ca/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/DEFSEC-FOR-WEB.pdf

Double chuffed!  ;D

:cheers:

 

[Navy_Pete]

Asterix is afloat.
https://twitter.com/chantierdavie/status/904692691002433538


And, Obelix is the planned sister.  I do like a sense of humour.
http://www.davie.ca/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/DEFSEC-FOR-WEB.pdf

Davie is killing everyone with their PR game (even though I think Irving and Seaspan are both doing good jobs).  That is going to make for an awesome set of ship tshirts etc.

As opposed to * and failed ship mottos like M/V Asterix; Some Conditions may Apply!

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Yes they have grasped the PR angle better than anyone. I challenged them a bit on their comparison of the Berlin Class and Resolve, in regards to propulsion. The Berlins have complete dual propulsion systems, the Resolve has a thruster as a backup, more of a limp home motor, with a side benefit of assisting in other operations. They responded quickly to point this out. I think this is one area the Berlins have over the Resolve and they want to gloss over it, I think it is problematic as it makes you wonder about the other claims. I am no expert but as far as I can tell, the Berlins are meant to be closer to combat and stand a chance of surviving it. I am not so sure the Resolve are as well prepared for that in regards to damage control and survivability.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

You can't blame private companies for tooting their own horns.

Of course the Asterix is not at the military standards of the Berlins. But for the 1.2B$ difference per ship for costs, is there a need for all of our AOR's to be fully mil specs?

As I have indicated before, to me the perfect mix is something like 2 Berlins for oversea service with the CTF or any other CAF deployment, as required, while you keep two Asterix' for home operations and training. While any of the Berlin is undergoing refit/maintenance period, you can then still use one of the Asterix if the deployment is in a safe area.

Flexibility at a reasonable cost, and no infringement of the Shipbuilding Strategy since both selected yards still build exactly what they were meant to build.

Personally, I would take them up on the interim icebreakers projects too. After all, the Diefenbaker won't hit the water before the mid 2020's and (1) the Louis is getting really beaten up right now and (2) the Radisson's are already 40 years old and as is now, will be in their mid fifties by the time their turn comes. The Coast Guard can use the relief of modern icebreakers now instead of 15 years from now. 

 

[jollyjacktar]

Agreed,  OGBD that would be fantastic but crewing would be challenging.  We're going to have problems finding sailors for all that. 

 

[Stoker]

Davie is killing everyone with their PR game (even though I think Irving and Seaspan are both doing good jobs).  That is going to make for an awesome set of ship tshirts etc.

As opposed to * and failed ship mottos like M/V Asterix; Some Conditions may Apply!

Federal Fleet was very accommodating to my request for photos for my RCN page, they gave me access to all of their media pictures of the Asterix build, many not in the media. I made the same request of Irving for AOPS, nothing but crickets.

If anyone's interested.

https://www.facebook.com/pg/GOCANADANAVY/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1574518742606850

 

[Kirkhill]

Federal Fleet was very accommodating to my request for photos for my RCN page, they gave me access to all of their media pictures of the Asterix build, many not in the media. I made the same request of Irving for AOPS, nothing but crickets.

If anyone's interested.

https://www.facebook.com/pg/GOCANADANAVY/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1574518742606850

Great page Chief.  Thanks for doing that.

And speaking of Federal Fleet Services - don't they provide the answer to JJT's question above?  The "Davie" packages all seem to be based on FFS (sorry - chuckle alert  ;D )  providing ship, support and crew.

Final thought, wrt employment of the Asterix: not just for home service and training but also for open water and uncontested waters, permitting Task Groups to slingshot forwards with their Berlins retaining a full fuel load.

 

[Edward Campbell]

There is, I think, a serious doctrinal issue with what Davie is proposing.

As I understand it, not doubt very, very imperfectly, the RCN sees an AOR as a combat vessel that sails into serious harm's way. Thus, it is armed and has a full military crew. Davie is proposing something that goes beyond even what the UK's Royal Fleet Auxiliary does: they propose a fully civilian, not adapted civil service, system, contractor owned and operated, which, presumably, means that Asterix's civilian captain could, legally, refuse an order from an RCN task group commander. Is that right, matelots?

I think there is a case for a government to say, to its Navy: rethink your fleet support doctrine, please, because we cannot afford to give you what you say you need now.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Chief: Super page. Keep it up.

Chris: Don't confuse "Canadian Territorial Waters" with home waters.  ;D

Home waters in the Atlantic is everything down to Bermuda and half way across to Europe, while home water in the Pacific is everything North of California to midway across to Hawaii. And, on top of that, I would not have any problems with the Asterix' operating in the Caribbean, in the Atlantic all the way to Europe and in the Mediterranean in support of EX there.

And yes, Federal fleet approach would solve most of the manning problems.

And ERC, we have used our AOR's in the past as semi-warships, but it is not the reason they were originally armed with the"bow-chaser" useless 3'50 gun. It was so we would get the warship rate going through the Panama canal. Otherwise, the main reason we used them in more dangerous area than most other navies was because they had the facilities to house the higher command teams (as in the Gulf war, for instance). It is not exactly ingrained doctrine. The RCN had the ships and they had the capability, so they were used. It's called doing with what you have, and as such I suppose it is general CAF doctrine.  :nod:

And yes, a fully civilian captain does not have to answer to a military commander - so you don't even get to call it refusing an "order". If the military wants to put the Asterix - a ship that legally belongs to civilian - in harms way, there are provision in the contract for the Government of Canada to immediately acquire her and put a government crew on board. 

 

[Loachman]

is there a need for all of our AOR's to be fully mil specs?

Why not?

All of the Army's trucks do...

 

[jollyjacktar]

Actually Chris, OGBD the civilian crew portion of the iAOR is much smaller than the military manning.  The ratio keeps spreading wider too.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Chief, really great group of photos, thanks very much.  Really like the old school Hudson bay style fire blankets for some reason; that is much more homely looking than the standard itchy grey ones.

 

[MarkOttawa]

Asterix (and more from Davie?)--see mostly civilian-crewed USNS Robert E. Peary et al.:
https://www.militaryfactory.com/ships/detail.asp?ship_id=USNS-Robert-E-Peary-TAKE5

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Stoker]

Asterix (and more from Davie?)--see mostly civilian-crewed USNS Robert E. Peary et al.:
https://www.militaryfactory.com/ships/detail.asp?ship_id=USNS-Robert-E-Peary-TAKE5

Mark
Ottawa

Yes but not really comparable at all with the setup with Federal Fleet.

 

[jollyjacktar]

No, not at all.

 

[observor 69]

This is the latest I can find  on this topic.

" RCMP should drop investigation into Vice-Admiral Norman, lawyer says."
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/rcmp-should-drop-probe-into-vice-admiral-norman-lawyer-says/article36054961/

Anyone have an update on Admiral Norman or did I just miss something in the news?
Just curious!

 

[Navy_Pete]

Pure speculation, but curious if they are negotiating a settlement for wrongful dismissal?  This whole thing is ugly, particularly when they have found a few civvies that also leaked the same info, and the whole thing was watercooler talk anyway.