Various Problems with The Cormorants- Merged
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Lemon alert!!! I am hoping they will be able to rectify this problem much like I hope the Victoria's problems will be eventually fixed.
Ex-Dragoon said:
Ever wonder what would have happened if we'd have bought the full complement of these dogs that was originally proposed?
Maybe the bugs would have been worked out by now or maybe we'd be stuck in an endless cycle of unreliabliity.
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mz589 said:
If it was just the CF having reliability issues then I would be inclined to agree but it sounds like everyone who has bought/ordered them are having the same issues.
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Hmmm maybe the Griffion is not as bad as it seems at least it stays in the air. I knock on wood as i say this. And to think I just read somewhere that they were thinking of taking two or three of these birds to the stan to fly in the higher altitudes there. Or maybe this is all a big cover operation for that move. I heard that they ordered a lot of tan paint in Trenton.
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Ex-Dragoon said:
Correct, my Det Commander is Royal Navy and he said the RN Merlins are having the same problems.
With the titanium tailrotor hub and main rotor head on the S-92, it's nice to know we shouldn't have the same types of problems when we get them.
We (Sea Kings) have been holding SAR standby off and on for the past year to cover for the lack of serviceable Cormorants. Pretty sad when the media's favourite whipping horse turns out to be the work horse of the coastal areas.
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Inch said:
And yet there is little mention of that fact to be found in the media.
Inch said:
Could you describe how these aspects of the S-92 is different than than Cormorant? In other words, what differs on the Cormorant that makes them break down, other than who built them? (Italian and British cars aren't known to be reliable either....I'll shut up now. ;D)
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daniel h. said:
I'm not a Cormorant pilot, but my understanding of the tail rotor on the Cormorant from talking with friends that do fly them is that the Cormorant tail rotor hubs are composite material. Composites are known for their strength, in one direction, but they're also known for their ability to break without warning. Just watch an NHL game and you'll see how easily composites can break without warning.
The design of the Cormorant's tail rotor hubs is also a bit of a problem, there's weak spots in the design. It's kind of hard to describe, but basically, it's a piece of composite material with a square shape in the centre. It looks kind of like your computer monitor, the half hub would be the white case while the screen itself would be the hole, you see corner to corner it isn't very thick and this is where the cracks are occurring.
The S-92 avoided all this by using titanium vice composites for their tail and main rotor hubs, couple that with a different design and it's safe to say we won't see the same problems with the S-92/H-92/CH148 when we get them. They will probably have different problems since they are new after all, but I'm confident that they won't have tail rotor problems.
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There is a detailed article explaining the Cormorant tail rotor half hub problem in the Summer 2005 issue of flight comment.
See page 18 of:
http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/dfs/pdf/Flight_Comment/2005/Summer2005_e.pdf
See page 18 of:
http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/dfs/pdf/Flight_Comment/2005/Summer2005_e.pdf
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Strike said:
Ain't that the truth. A few months ago I was out doing a compass swing, it was around 17:00 and the vast majority of the Wing was already into the beer and they called us on the radio to "ask" us if we would do SAR standby until noon the next day. Of course the answer was yes, we were stood down later that night so not much came of it.
carpediem said:
One more question if I may:
If the problem is literally one part or one section of the helicopter, couldn't the makers of the helicopter redesign this one section, and improve an otherwise great helicopter? Couldn't they even fabricate a new part and add them to helicopters currently in service and eliminate the problem? Isn't this kind of thing covered under a warranty in such an expensive purchase?
daniel h. said:
I think that is exactly what Augusta-Westland is doing. From what I hear they already redesigned the rotor hub once but that the new design ended up failing more often. Someone a lot smarter than me estimated that at a minimum it would take another year to redesign, build, test and the new part. But I guess we will have to wait and see.
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daniel h. said:
They've already done a redesign and the cracks reappeared in a different spot, only this time with a lot less flight time on the part. It would be possible to redesign the entire tail rotor, but adding an entirely new tail rotor to the helicopter would require an entirely new set of data to be acquired. Things like icing trials, controllability and vibration analysis would all need to be done from scratch, that kind of info isn't just done in a matter of weeks, it could take years to gather that kind of info. If you add an entirely new part, it could just transfer the stress somewhere else as was evidenced with the tail rotor mod that's already been approved.
As far as classifying it as a great helicopter, IMO, a helicopter needs to be tried and tested under the harshest conditions and come away without so much as a scratch. The Blackhawk, for example, is a helo I would say is a great helo. It's been battle tested in 2 Iraq wars and a ton of other peacekeeping missions and it's been in service since the late 70's/early 80's. But I guess calling a Cormorant a great helicopter is a matter of personal choice, I know I don't call it a great helicopter, another term comes to mind, piece of.........
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