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Various Problems with The Cormorants- Merged

CTD said:
Eurcopter got caught with their pants down on gambling that their updated EH101's were going to be problem free. Well we lost their gamble.
How to fix it is the question.

Just a correction Eurocopter has nothing to do with the EH101. It is built by a consortium of two of its main rivals Augusta and Westland. Also, in regards to the CH148 not having any major problems when delivered, just remember no one really knows because the fly-by-wire variant has not flown.
 
CTD said:
Just to let everyone know I have good friends who work for the same companys who build, fix and maintain the airframes internationlly we discuss here. They are the SME's on these subjects. 

:rofl:

I hope you arent refering to IMP
 
CTD
considering that you are transmitting info that you got from a friend or a friend of a friend, whatever you declare is 2nd hand information.

Some of the defects you listed (windshield cracks) have been reported in the Merlin.  I have not read about same happening in the Cormorant.

Also, the EH101 is built by westland and Augusta... two companies that have considerable experience in building helicopters.  Reliable military helicopters.  No grounds to diss them
 
It is AugustaWestland.
There was cooperation between the two companys Euro and Augusta to build the EH101, although they are competitors on paper they are merged through ownership stocks.
I cannot remember who bought into who. 36% shares

AugustaWestland is the principle builder of the EH101,
I always get confused between them and Eurocopters because some of their projects are so closely merged.
yes the Cormoronts had cracking windshields. They put a restriciton on them I think it was 2 years ago for this problem, It was quickly fixed in about 2 or three months.

Or maybe I am totally full of it and have no clue as some on this site seem to think which is the way it goes on in here. If they didnt here it themselves or see it in writing they dismiss the whole thing as a rumour or a flame war.
what ever,

The helos we have are some of the nicer platforms around in the world. they are hightechm user friendly, and maintainer friendly. You usually see one or the other not both.

Cheers
 
CTD,
I don't think the tone of my post any way near a flame. 
Your earlier posts left an impression that you considered the Cormorant a hunk of junk - which it isn't... re para 4 of your last post

The helos we have are some of the nicer platforms around in the world. they are hightechm user friendly, and maintainer friendly. You usually see one or the other not both.
 
CTD said:
There was cooperation between the two companys Euro and Augusta to build the EH101, although they are competitors on paper they are merged through ownership stocks.
I cannot remember who bought into who. 36% shares

You sure about all that?
 
I am very confused by this EH 101,Merlin,Cormorant, discusion.
If this helicopter is the turkey that a lot of people on this thread
maintain, why does it seem to be selling so well,even the US
President will be flying around in one.Could it be that it is the
only obvious replacement for the S 61 Sea King?.
    Canada really missed out of being on the ground floor of
development of this project,as when our brilliant Prime Minister
Mr Cretian cancelled our original order,we had been offered
substantial work sharing offsets in the production of this
helicopter.When one considers the number of Sea Kings getting
close to their sell by dates it seems to have been a particularly
stupid decision.
    Please feel free to jump in and correct me if my impression
is incorrect.
    Another point that just occurred to me, is the fact that the
introduction of the CH 47 Chinook into Canadian service was
not without problems.One was lost on the delivery flight,at
least we have not lost a Cormorant.
                                Regards
 
TE,
The fact that the UK ended up holding the bag & enduring the teething pains of a new design is not 100% a bad thing.
The mixed bag of Cormorants & Cyclones may work in our favor over time...

BTW - YES, we did lose a Cormorant.
 
All right cannot resist any longer. Many of the problems we have with the shag (slang for a certain ugly seabird) are due to not getting enough of them in the first place. Even with all the issues, they are over 1000 hours each already, some over 2000. Other problems stem from not being privy to the "specs". I am not a maintainer so I do not know the terms, but basically AWIL decides and approves every aspect of our chopper. IMP cannot make mods without approval, nor come up with fixes on their own. Spare parts are extremely slow to arrive, choppers often sit awaiting parts for weeks for fixes that take hours. Our morning briefs almost always have the phrase "awaiting parts/approval/advice from AWIL" (Augusta westland). we still have several ops restrictions attached to our aircraft related to early problems, but many are not lifted because the supplier does not have time/interest in doing the work to get them lifted. I think the windshield speed limit (140? kts) is still in place, although the torque that caused the cracks has been solved for years. The tail rotor half hub issue that caused me so much distress a year or more ago, seems to be well past, yet in prudent risk management, ops restrictions remain, hopefully for not too much longer, mandating a rigid inspection schedule which greatly impacts training (requirements waived during ops). It is embarrassing to me that we have had to replace the cormorant fleet in Trenton with Griffons, an extremely limited SAR platform, in order to maintain our fleet elsewhere. Unfortunately, we can't just buy off the shelf eh101 because Canada has designed the Cormorant as a distinct airframe, with much in common with but enough differences to make our planes unique. Are Cormorants Lemons? They are yellow... I hate working under it, you cannot talk to anyone with the crappy radios, and there are espresso cup holders beside the spotters seats. We in the back got overlooked when the thing was designed, for sure, and we cannot mod it the way we would like due the the restrictive nature of airworthiness certification. The plane flies rock solid, though, it flies in weather that no one should go out in, and it can work at fairly high altitudes. I feel safe (finally) inside it. There is lots of redundancy, and our chauffeurs are generally happy, which makes me happy. They are SARTech lemons, and maintenance lemons, until we get the supply chain sorted out. Overall they are probably a C+. definitely a Canadian Military acceptable grade.

(edited for spell check)
 
I am sure about the AugustaWestland partnership.
Excellant post kj_gully.

The Cormoront is one of the nicest platforms in the world. it is operator friendly and also maintainer friendly. But it has many problems with it for what we bought and how many we were going to buy.
I no where said it was a hunk of junk.
It it not the perfect problem free helo that one thinks.

Cheers
 
CTD said:
I am sure about the AugustaWestland partnership.

Well, AugustaWestland is owned 100% by Finmeccanica and Eurocopter 100% by EADS: they have zero ownership interest in each other.  They only major thing they partner on (AFAIK) is the NH90 (along with Fokker): I don't claim to be an expert, but this is the first I've heard of Eurocopter being involved with the EH101 in any way (other than as a competitor) ... Augusta and Westland partnered on the EH101, then were merged to become AugustaWestland, then the GKN (Westland's parent) share was sold to Finmeccanica (Augusta's parent).  I think you are a little confused here.
 
Maybe I am confused, about the exact ownership and or the co-operation between the companys who made the Cormoront. Seems to me that Eurocopter owned a bit of Agusta Westland along with having some engineering aspect of the Cormoront.
 
Courtesy of Paul Beaver: "Modern Military Helicopters" Patrick Stephens Limited 1987

The EH 101 is a unique international co-operation venture between Italy (Augsta) and the United Kingdom (Westland) to provide a new generation helicopter for the Italian Navy (MMI) and the Royal Navy (RN).

Just had to dig it out from under the door it was propping up.

 
The British have recently acquired six (6) EH-101's from Denmark - they are standing up a new squadron of Merlin's.

Gully's note was spot-on and spoken from the direct coal face.  AWIL is really our biggest obstacle and we (CF & IMP) are working with this machine to the best possible way.  Shag pilots love the machine - the rest of us rub it in that their radios suck and going away on a long range trip involves getting off the Island - but that thing will fly in weather that makes the Buffalo come close to falling out of the sky.

90% of the high seas dramatic rescues that happen out West are done off that platform - Gully has been there and done that with them.
 
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