Wearing Uniforms Post-Release/Retirement (merged)

[Edward Campbell]

“The mess kit is a formal uniform of active service members and is not to be worn after retirement,” wrote a senior naval officer in an email to a Gala organizer.

I have no idea what QR&O says, nor am I especially interested, but this goes back to the very valid, in my opinion, points made by Infanteer and MCG: a uniform is worn by serving members, we retired members wear our blazers or dinner jackets and our medals.

The irate senior officer is trying to turn back the clock to a time when the "rules" didn't need to be written down, we learned them by example - and maybe he's succeeding.

 

[McG]

There's also a huge difference between someone that served their country with honour and respectably retired, wearing their uniform and a fucking walt looking for attention.

Emotionally maybe, but under the law both are civilians dressing as currently serving members.  Where do you draw the line?  Does the Pte(R) who completes his TOS without reaching OFP then get to wear the uniform?  What about the guy who was a multi-tour vet but released 5f?  The law does not make distinctions in this area.  If the law does not distinguish, why would we expect a judge to hammer one group while condoning another for the exact same act of dressing as a service member while not currently being one?

I know a number of retired senior officers who feel entitled to toss around the weight of their former rank - who controls this at a major event where pers do not all know each other but the civilians are dressed as service members?  Comd RCN has decided that he will exercise this control for the navy uniform.

 

[Occam]

Over the course of the last 28 years that I've had close contact in one way or another with the Reg F, I know several members who bought a mess kit with the express intent of wearing it for mess dinners post-retirement.  No intention of wearing their #1 order of dress on any occasion, or anything like that.  The mess kit was bought for a social function which has direct ties to their military service.  I don't see the harm in that.

Anyone that tries to toss their weight around during a mess dinner ought to be told to take up the matter the next working day...in the serving member's office, should there be a disagreement between a serving member and a retired member.

 

[ModlrMike]

I attended a mess dinner in Chatham where several ex-member wore their mess kit and medals... albeit with all the badges removed.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Emotionally maybe, but under the law both are civilians dressing as currently serving members.  Where do you draw the line?  Does the Pte(R) who completes his TOS without reaching OFP then get to wear the uniform?  What about the guy who was a multi-tour vet but released 5f?  The law does not make distinctions in this area.  If the law does not distinguish, why would we expect a judge to hammer one group while condoning another for the exact same act of dressing as a service member while not currently being one?

I know a number of retired senior officers who feel entitled to toss around the weight of their former rank - who controls this at a major event where pers do not all know each other but the civilians are dressed as service members?  Comd RCN has decided that he will exercise this control for the navy uniform.

Hopefully the next step is to put a muzzle on wives who wear their husbands ranks?  >

 

[Fishbone Jones]

If this were an army rule, I would simply have to remove my rank and collar dogs and there would be nothing anyone could say,

Mess kit is simply a military cut tuxedo and I paid for it.

It doesn't become a uniform until the rank and unit identifiers are applied.

 

[Pat in Halifax]

Hopefully the next step is to put a muzzle on wives who wear their husbands ranks?  >

Why would they wear their husband's rank? I always thought wives were atleast one rank higher than their spouse??!!

 

[Jungle]

Hopefully the next step is to put a muzzle on wives who wear their husbands ranks?  >

That reminds me of a story from a friend's wife who was working at the Petawawa CANEX video club in the late 80s/ early 90s:

- Video store clerk: "Oh, you have a movie that is 2 days late..."
- Customer: "Humm... do you know who I am" ?
- "No..."
- "I'm Mrs Major (husband's name)..."
- Ok, but you owe $6..."

 

[Danjanou]

Like other's I have the nice suit, blazers and/or tux hanging in the closet ready to go with appropriate bling. Any uniforms I still own probably don't fit and come out once a year along with some other moldy bits and pieces so the Youth Ed chair at our Legion can use them for displays at Legion Week in Sept.

If I really wanted to go to a mess function and/or play dress up I could always join JM's favourite unit  8)

http://www.frontiersmenhistorian.info/canada.htm


That said I find the manner in which this appears to have been done. As a young and new M/cpl waay back when I was given excellent advice about giving idiotic orders that would not be obeyed and then stuck with the consequences of my immaturity.

 

[drunknsubmrnr]

“The mess kit is a formal uniform of active service members and is not to be worn after retirement,” wrote a senior naval officer in an email to a Gala organizer.

“This is clearly against Queen’s Regulations and Orders and cannot be condoned,” he wrote in the email obtained by Torstar News Service ....

I really hope that quote is taken out of context and the Admiral in question isn't really that pompous.

Maybe the worst thing about the Admiral Byng affair was that it wasn't regularly repeated. You'd probably see a bit different attitude if it had been.

 

[Strike]

If this were an army rule, I would simply have to remove my rank and collar dogs and there would be nothing anyone could say,

Mess kit is simply a military cut tuxedo and I paid for it.

It doesn't become a uniform until the rank and unit identifiers are applied.

Funny you mention that.  I think I recall seeing a retired Navy officer who did just that (removed rank) on his mess kit but wore it at local functions in Kingston.  People asked why he had no rank on what was obviously mess kit and he answered that he was retired.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Nice to see the RCN focusing on the important issues of operating a military force once again  > after handling the SSI and Executive Curl *conflicts*. 

;D

All the talk about RCN DEU issues, C Army Pips and Crowns, and RCAF Mess Kits, etc...we'll soon a need a CF version of "Fashion Now" or something to keep track of it all.

 

[mariomike]

People asked why he had no rank on what was obviously mess kit and he answered that he was retired.

Is that common?

"Mess Uniform use by Retired Members" 
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/108682/post-1195734.html#msg1195734

"Every year at one of our functions, past members show up in thier ( sic ) mess kit, minus any rank.  I plan to do the same."

 

[Jed]

Is that common?

"Mess Uniform use by Retired Members" 
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/108682/post-1195734.html#msg1195734

"Every year at one of our functions, past members show up in thier ( sic ) mess kit, minus any rank.  I plan to do the same."

that is just plain strange.  the guy was still a retired whatever his rank was. each to his own I guess.

- mod edit to fix quote box -

 

[medicineman]

Nice to see the RCN focusing on the important issues of operating a military force once again  > after handling the SSI and Executive Curl *conflicts*. 

;D

All the talk about RCN DEU issues, C Army Pips and Crowns, and RCAF Mess Kits, etc...we'll soon a need a CF version of "Fashion Now" or something to keep track of it all.

Maybe some of us should get together over some barley sandwiches and come up with a new "Idiot's Guide to Canadian Armed Forces Dress Policies"...and publish it as such.  Wonder how much we'd get for royaltiy cheques...

MM

 

[Old Sweat]

Nice to see the RCN focusing on the important issues of operating a military force once again  > after handling the SSI and Executive Curl *conflicts*. 

;D

All the talk about RCN DEU issues, C Army Pips and Crowns, and RCAF Mess Kits, etc...we'll soon a need a CF version of "Fashion Now" or something to keep track of it all.

Here we have three classic examples of wasting time and effort on trivia while the real issues languish.  :nana: 

MM, the first rounds on me.  :cheers:

 

[Danjanou]

Maybe some of us should get together over some barley sandwiches and come up with a new "Idiot's Guide to Canadian Armed Forces Dress Policies"...and publish it as such.  Wonder how much we'd get for royaltiy cheques...

MM

I'm in  >

 

[Haggis]

Maybe some of us should get together over some barley sandwiches and come up with a new "Idiot's Guide to Canadian Armed Forces Dress Policies"...and publish it as such.  Wonder how much we'd get for royalty cheques...

You cannot have a Dress Committee without a CWO.

Sign me up - particularly if Old Sweat s buying.  :cheers:

 

[MARS]

You are, of course, going to require a naval officer to be a stick in the mud since, well, since it appears the navy started this whole ball rolling 

I know, I know, you guys were talking pips and crowns well before the navy got involved, but hey, we actually implemented stuff!  And we are releasing messages!  In all caps to boot.  ;D

I'm in

 

[Towards_the_gap]

If it is an 'active duty' uniform, should not the RCN provide it out of the pubic public purse?
                                                                                                        ^typo^


If no, then why should people keep shelling out shekels for something they won't ever be allowed to wear after they depart.

Also, the argument that 'it's an active uniform and we can't have people mistaking retired pers for those still in' falls a bit short when you consider the amount of times an officer would be required to exercise his lawful authority when in mess kit. Do you navy guys wear it when you're driving the boat or something? Is it some hellish way of keeping the duty officer awake? Standard dress for boarding parties after 1800hrs (one never wants to call oneself any sort of party in the wrong order of dress right?)? I'm trying to see where the confusion would lie.