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What Might Civil War Be Like?

Remius

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Well some seem to already be planning.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/520189-fbi-says-it-foiled-plot-to-kidnap-michigan-governor
 

NavyShooter

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I think this image sums up a lot of the 'middle ground' folks.



 

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daftandbarmy

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Prepare for something 'different' in November....



'The country’s lost its mind': Polls warning of civil war, violence shows deep partisan chasm over election

Bill Fry, 61, is a supporter of President Donald Trump in rural Ohio who doesn't share much in common politically with Matt Edelman, 29, a Joe Biden backer in Brooklyn, New York.

Except this: They both worry about the legitimacy of the upcoming presidential election and fear an outcome that appears tainted could heighten the nation's already frayed psyche and exacerbate violence in the streets.

They're not alone. A new poll shows a large swath of Americans harbor deep reservations about the election results weeks before Election Day and are concerned about what actions people might resort to as a consequence.

The YouGov poll of 1,999 registered voters found that nearly half – 47% – disagree with the idea that the election "is likely to be fair and honest." And that slightly more than half – 51% – won't "generally agree on who is the legitimately elected president of the United States." The online poll was conducted Oct.1-2 and has a margin of error of +/- 2.56 percentage points.

In addition, a YouGov poll of 1,505 voters found that 56% said they expect to see "an increase in violence as a result of the election." That question had a margin of error of 4.2 percentage points.

For Fry and many other Trump supporters, the concern over the election's legitimacy is tied to the largely unproven claims Trump has raised about potential fraud involving millions of mail-in ballots that already have begun to pour in to election office across the nation.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/10/07/both-sides-worry-doubts-election-integrity-could-spark-violence/5880965002/
 

mariomike

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daftandbarmy said:
Prepare for something 'different' in November....

Someone more politically savvy than I may disagree. But, I don't believe US Team Red fans have anything to worry about.

8 Oct., 2020

By depressing the minority vote, delegitimizing the results and creating enough legal chaos that the Electoral College cannot reach a majority of 270, the Trump team could throw the election into the House of Representatives where each state has one vote.

Article here
https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/520150-how-trump-could-still-win-the-1876-plan




 

shawn5o

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mariomike said:
Someone more politically savvy than I may disagree. But, I don't believe US Team Red fans have anything to worry about.

Article here
https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/520150-how-trump-could-still-win-the-1876-plan

Good article and the author is an old hand at politics.

From the Hill
By depressing the minority vote, delegitimizing the results and creating enough legal chaos that the Electoral College cannot reach a majority of 270, the Trump team could throw the election into the House of Representatives where each state has one vote.

I believe the claim of "depressing the minority vote" is an exaggeration.

And what about (whataboutism  ;D ) the democrats plan to disrupt/dispute the election?


Election results/Election integrity: The Democrats are stirring up crowds by conjuring up dark images of Trump of being unwilling to leave the White House if he is defeated.  They vividly describe having to bring in troops to physically remove him.  Such accusations continue even though Trump has said repeatedly he will accept the results of a fair election.  That is a completely relevant caveat when there is abundant evidence that leftist groups are prepared to prevent his re-election by fair means or foul!  Leading Democrats have openly said they cannot allow Trump to win.  Hillary Clinton has gone so far as to publicly urge Joe Biden not to concede "under any circumstances."

The incessant drumbeat about Trump not accepting the results is really infantile projection.  Which party, for the first time in history, refused to accept the results of the 2016 election?  Which party has spent four years wailing from every rooftop that Hillary actually won the election and undermining or attacking the duly elected president at every opportunity?  Which party is pushing hard to eliminate the Electoral College so the country will be ruled by New York, Los Angeles, and San Francisco?

Before the impeachment proceedings in the House, the GOP argued that the American voters should decide Trump's fate at the ballot box in 2020.  The Democrat Party, led by Nancy Pelosi, speaker of the House and third in line for the presidency, called that "dangerous" and didn't want to take that chance.  Since the impeachment failed in the Senate, the left has pushed for changes in the voting system that favors mail-in ballots and early voting — both measures that dilute bipartisan supervision of voting locations and threaten the integrity of the voting process.

Michael Bloomberg, a Democrat billionaire, is giving $17 million to pay the fines and legal fees required to restore the voting franchise for 32,000 black and Hispanic felons (by the way, whites not considered smacks of racism to me) in Florida, a must-win state for Trump.  After having spent a billion dollars on a failed attempt to win the democratic nomination, Bloomberg has, ironically, already pledged $100 million to help Biden win Florida.

Full article at
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/10/defending_trump_from_a_tornado_of_liberal_lies.html

;)
 

a_majoor

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Micheal Yon has come to Portland to observe the insurgency there, and is starting to offer reporting on the situation (previously he covered the Hong Kong uprising)

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/jeff-reynolds/2020/10/16/how-close-is-the-us-to-civil-war-a-war-correspondent-is-in-portland-to-find-out-n1063645

How Close Is the U.S. to Civil War? A War Correspondent Is in Portland to Find Out
BY JEFF REYNOLDS OCT 16, 2020 4:52 PM ET

Michael Yon has covered many civil wars, insurgencies, and popular uprisings. He originally thought he would spend the next several weeks in Taiwan. Instead, he came to Portland in September with the plan to stay here through Election Day and its aftermath. Michael lives in Thailand, and had hoped to go to Taiwan to cover the unrest there as China becomes ever more aggressive. When he saw what was going on with antifa and Black Lives Matter in Portland and other West Coast cities, he decided he’d seen this story before and needed to come here instead.

Indeed, many folks on both sides believe the United States is headed to a second civil war. Rick Moran of PJ Media wrote about it last month, and at the end of September, a poll showed that 61% of Americans believe we’re on the brink.

A native Floridian and former Green Beret, Yon has been to 75 countries around the world to document popular unrest and civil wars. He was embedded as a journalist in both Iraq and Afghanistan, and claims to have predicted the civil war in Iraq while most people called him crazy.

In an interview with PJ Media, Yon says what he sees happening in America has him deeply troubled. He talked about the chances of all-out civil war, the Balkanization of the United States, and how difficult it will be to hold it all together as we approach the most tumultuous election in US history.

In his short time in Portland, he’s already heard many of the same rumors we’ve all heard: that cops are considering walking off the job en masse because of the four months of nightly riots and the complete lack of support from political leaders in the city and the state of Oregon.

“I’ve been out of the United States most of the last 20 years,” Yon said. “I’ve actually spent more than half my life overseas and in other countries and quite a few wars and conflicts. My office actually is in Thailand. And so this has obviously been building in the United States since before we were born, right? Before our grandparents were born for that matter.”

Yon says he was covering Hong Kong until the Communists kicked him out on February 5. “I’ve been watching, then of course the pandemic stomped in,” Yon said, “and then and I realized that we could be going into a civil war in the United States. And so that’s when I decided to come back to the United States and, most specifically, Portland.”

In the interview, Yon noted that, in his experience, pandemic, war, and famine almost always appear together in one order or another. Drawing on his Green Beret training and his experience covering these kinds of uprisings, he says he thought early on that COVID-19 could be a catalyst for unrest. “Let me say where I come from on this since I study war so much,” Yon said. “If you have a big war, you’ll always have pandemic and famine. If you have a big famine, you’ll have pandemic. It’s like the Devil’s Triangle. If you get a big one, you’ll get the other two every time. So in ways that are unpredictable, it always happens. You roll the bowling ball, eventually it’s hitting something.”

Yon urged Americans to be prepared and start stocking up for emergencies. “That’s why back in January I was saying, over and over and over, stock up on food,” he said. “Get medicines that you need, be prepared. I got solar put on my home in Thailand and had an extra water reservoir put in just in case, because we didn’t know which way it was going to go. I already had good food stockpiles.”

So, will civil war naturally follow the pandemic and the shortages we’ve already seen in the U.S., and will Portland be ground zero? “I think there’s many ground zeroes,” Yon said, “because we have many different conflicts brewing, and some are not actually related to each other. [Antifa is] trying to push it as far as they can. Obviously, it’s an old technique. We’re all very well aware of the methods. They have injured more than 200 of the law enforcement officers down here just in Portland [federal and local]. We’re never more than one night away from a few people getting killed down there and then this thing spills out. It’s a wonder, actually, it hasn’t happened in a big way yet. It kind of feels like it’s right there.”

“The conditions have become ripe, the sunlight’s there.” Yon said. “This is how groups form not just in the United States, but all around the world. This is how, when I was involved in the Thai fighting, covering that, it was about 80 different groups. You can’t even keep track of their names because there’s always more. They’ve been attacking so many people, they’ve murdered here, they’ve done arson. They’re destroying businesses, harassing people on the street, getting people fired from their jobs.”

Links to the full interview are here: https://anchor.fm/behindthecurtain/episodes/Michael-Yon-on-Portlands-insurrection--and-Brady-White-on-why-police-morale-is-in-the-toilet---Ep--27-el5luc
 

a_majoor

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And another potential trigger:

https://www.theepochtimes.com/why-biden-will-never-be-president-of-all-americans_3557916.html

Why Biden Will Never Be President of ‘All Americans’
Roger L. Simon
October 29, 2020 Updated: October 29, 2020

Joe Biden has assured us on multiple occasions that, if he wins, he will be the president of all Americans, even those that didn’t vote for him.

This is impossible and is not just another “bright, shining lie” of the sort to which we have become sadly inured. It is an absolute falsehood highlighting a true American tragedy.

National reconciliation could never happen under Biden. He would assume office under a cloud of suspicion so dark it’s hard to imagine a manner in which he could recover from it.

From the moment he took office, the Democrats accused Donald Trump of collusion with Russia, but it was shown, after a lengthy and expensive investigation, they hadn’t an iota of proof.

Indeed, there is a solid argument they knew they had no such evidence in the first place—even tried to manufacture it. This was one of the more repellent, if not the most repellent, political hits in our nation’s history.

With Joe Biden, the reverse is true. There is already a plethora of evidence of economic collusion with China, notably with high level members of their Communist Party, that, coupled with the activities of his son, are stunningly obvious subjects for blackmail and serious coercion.

This evidence has accrued in many forms—emails, texts, documents and the detailed public statements of Tony Bobulinski, the former Biden family business partner, including Bobulinski’s accounts of Joe’s personal involvement via face-to-face meetings about which the former vice president clearly lied.

None of this has been successfully controverted, not even remotely, while the evidence continues to grow on a daily basis, with another even bigger email dump emerging through Peter Schweizer.

And China, as we know, is but the tip of a multinational iceberg that includes an amazing percentage of the countries of the world from Oman to Luxembourg, not to mention, of course, Russia and, needless to say, Ukraine.

That much of the media refuses to report on this story that would normally be gigantic is only an indication they are terrified it is true. Twitter founder Jack Dorsey went so far as to censor the information from the New York Post on his social media website, an act of utter panic. (Dorsey further besmirched himself by lying under oath to Sen. Marsha Blackburn at Wednesday’s hearing, claiming he had never censored Donald Trump when he had done so dozens of times.)

We can only assume these media and many Democrats don’t care. So what if the Bidens are a crime family? They’re our crime family. And Trump is worse.

Only he’s not. His children are not lolling around Beijing smoking crack with young women (maybe really girls) while the former vice president lies about business deals that could easily compromise our country and lead, slowly but surely, to the undoing of Western democracy desired by the CCP.

Roughly half the country, the so-called “Deplorables,” knows all this. How are they supposed to react should Biden win? Accept him and give him a chance in the grand tradition of the peaceful transitions in our country when so many Democrats and nearly all our mainstream media never accepted Trump from day one?

Not bloody likely.

More likely is that more information on the Biden Family will continue to dribble out, faute de mieux and despite all the efforts to suppress it through changes that will undoubtedly be made at the Department of Justice and elsewhere. The truth always emerges… eventually…. somehow.

Many are worried, with justification, about what will happen in our streets should Trump be reelected. This week in Philadelphia may be the tip of yet another iceberg.

It is unlikely, however, that the “Deplorables,” though well armed, will react similarly. They are, for the most part, considerably more adult than their adversaries.

But something will happen, in its time. I’m not sure when and I’m not sure what.

Though, frankly, I’m not keen on finding out. I hope Donald Trump wins reelection next week—solidly.
 

mariomike

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Thucydides said:
And another potential trigger:

https://www.theepochtimes.com/why-biden-will-never-be-president-of-all-americans_3557916.html

Why Biden Will Never Be President of ‘All Americans’
Roger L. Simon
October 29, 2020 Updated: October 29, 2020

Sounds like it's not going to happen,

Thucydides said:
Interesting, if counterintuative (compared to the mainstream) prediction:

https://twitter.com/PollWatch2020/status/1321596759160713216
 

a_majoor

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One can hope, and I have friends and relatives in the United States so there is an element of personal interest in hoping that it never happens. Going to Texas to extract family is a bit beyond my abilities if hostilities break out.

The problem is there are a lot of elements in play now which hope to trigger chaos and disruption in the United States (to advance their own agendas), so we cannot discount anything.
 

blacktriangle

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Thucydides said:
One can hope, and I have friends and relatives in the United States so there is an element of personal interest in hoping that it never happens. Going to Texas to extract family is a bit beyond my abilities if hostilities break out.

The problem is there are a lot of elements in play now which hope to trigger chaos and disruption in the United States (to advance their own agendas), so we cannot discount anything.

If they're in Texas, they're probably better off than most.

As for your second point - 100%. There are state actors (and while harder to attribute, almost certainly some non-state actors both foreign and domestic) that have been working towards this for years. And it works all too well in the era of squawking and leaderless partisan politics...
 

mariomike

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Thucydides said:
Going to Texas to extract family is a bit beyond my abilities if hostilities break out.

Little use telling people not to worry, but I wouldn't.

If the unthinkable were to happen ( Trump loses ) I expect he will put his own personal interests ahead of the country's and have Mike Pence, or Ivanka ( if possible to put her in? ), pardon him for any and all federal crimes. Perhaps even pardon himself, again, if possible.

If that doesn't work, make a deal with Biden.

America gets a peaceful transition, in exchange for Trump getting his freedom. A win-win for both, some might say.

Surely preferable to a transition from "Individual-1" to Defendant.

Biden would have to ask New York State and the Manhattan DA to play ball, again for the sake of the country.

That would leave Trump free to continue calling in to "the shows", or perhaps host one of his own. Maybe run one of "the kids" in 2024? Who knows?

The much more likely scenario, I believe, will be that he wins. The Dems will protest, as they did in 2016, but will realise that resistance is futile.

The minority of Americans will continue to wield power over the majority.

Those more politically savvy than I may have a different opinion.



 

a_majoor

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Like I said, I have personal as well as professional interest in not seeing this happen - after all, I don't have Liam Neeson on speed dial. I'm sure lots of people also are invested in the idea of a peaceful transition or continuation of power, but there are obviously some very vocal proponents of disorder and chaos. And if we know anything from history, demagogues and a mob are two parts of a very unstable binary system.

Given the coordinated attacks on 300 American cities over the past spring and summer months, it is easy to see tempers flaring even more and things reaching a tipping point.
 

QV

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mariomike said:
Little use telling people not to worry, but I wouldn't.

If the unthinkable were to happen ( Trump loses ) I expect he will put his own personal interests ahead of the country's and have Mike Pence, or Ivanka ( if possible to put her in? ), pardon him for any and all federal crimes. Perhaps even pardon himself, again, if possible.

If that doesn't work, make a deal with Biden.

America gets a peaceful transition, in exchange for Trump getting his freedom. A win-win for both, some might say.

Surely preferable to a transition from "Individual-1" to Defendant.

Biden would have to ask New York State and the Manhattan DA to play ball, again for the sake of the country.

That would leave Trump free to continue calling in to "the shows", or perhaps host one of his own. Maybe run one of "the kids" in 2024? Who knows?

The much more likely scenario, I believe, will be that he wins. The Dems will protest, as they did in 2016, but will realise that resistance is futile.

The minority of Americans will continue to wield power over the majority.

Those more politically savvy than I may have a different opinion.

Many smarter people than me have commented that this pandemic would have been the perfect time for a dictator like power grab.  Trump has done nothing like that.  Your fears are completely unfounded.  This is what the fake news media has done to you.
 

mariomike

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Thucydides said:
I'm sure lots of people also are invested in the idea of a peaceful transition or continuation of power, but there are obviously some very vocal proponents of disorder and chaos.

I think it will be a ( relatively ) peaceful continuation of power. The lesson from 2016 is that Resistance is futile.

QV said:
Your fears are completely unfounded.  This is what the fake news media has done to you.

Thucydides and I were discussing the election. Not the pandemic.

But, of course you are right, QV. If the unthinkable were to happen - Biden win - I can totally picture Trump saying something like, "Well, we fought the good fight. But, the best man won. I'm telling my staff to assist President-elect Biden's staff in any way possible to ensure a smooth and peaceful transition."  :)





 

CBH99

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I know this isn't really useful to the topic, but does anybody remember the speech Obama made about transitioning power to Trump?

Regardless of whether you agreed with his policies or not, Obama really was a class act  :2c:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xADyEhYThO8
 

dimsum

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CBH99 said:
Regardless of whether you agreed with his policies or not, Obama really was a class act  :2c:

I believe the term is "statesman".
 

Brad Sallows

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I remember when a statesmanlike handover was taken for granted, and it wasn't necessary to praise presidents for "met minimum standard".  I suppose the Clinton-Bush handover changed that.
 

mariomike

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Brad Sallows said:
I suppose the Clinton-Bush handover changed that.

You can read Bill Clinton's hand written handover letter to GW Bush.
https://digg.com/2020/peaceful-transfer-of-power-presidents-letters-to-successors

"From this day you are President of all of us. I salute you and wish you success and much happiness.

My prayers are with you and your family. Godspeed."


"Partisan rancor must now be put aside. For the sake of our unity as a people and the strength of our democracy, I offer my concession."

There was more. He offered his congratulations to "President-elect Bush" and urged all Americans to give him their full support.

Text Of Gore's Concession Speech
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/text-of-gores-concession-speech/

Al Gore - Democrat
December 13, 2000

( Gore had won the national vote by more than 500,000 votes, but narrowly lost Florida, giving the Electoral College to Bush 271 to 266. )

I wonder what the concession speech will be in their next election?

Or, if there even will be a concession speech?


 
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