Whither the Royal Canadian Legion? Or RCL Withers?

[mad dog 2020]

This is my point!
There are so many organizations under different names, ANAVETs, The Corp, Unit/Regt Assns in Hometowns, UNVets, RCHA club in Kingston etc etc etc.....
We are stretched thinner than the line in the Battle of the Bulge!  There are clubs coast to coast closing weekly.
We have a common cause and mindset. 
The last thing we need is to poach members.  I can see some huge establishments maybe downsizing or like empty nesters re-evaluate. 
Maybe the RCL could open their doors to other organizations to share or lease space. 
RCLs need to be centrally located so maybe it can be used as a seniors drop in centre by day.
There was a quote I read yesterday on this topic and it was that our collective voices are not being heard as we are not connected.
We need to identify, and liaise with all organizations in our communities to work towards a common goal, which isn't a problem as this is already apparent. Just that there are so many opinions on how or what is being implemented.
Concensus through dialog
We need to focus on our goals and in some cases leave the egos at the door.  It is not so much about local issues.

 

[ModlrMike]

One needs to remember that the RCL is an amalgamation of several retired service clubs. Perhaps the proliferation of new clubs is no more than an indication of the current RCL's irrelevance to younger vets. Darwinism in action - evolve or die.

 

[Michael OLeary]

It is not so much about local issues.

Actually, at the grass roots level of membership and organizational survival, it's all about local issues.

- It is the individual Branches that choose to go down in flames and collapse rather than amalgamate to form fewer, stronger, centralized Branches with a focus on the organization's purpose rather than defencing antiquated brick and mortar just because it was "Dad's legion."
- It is the individual Branches that chose to be unwelcoming to a generation of post war retirees and Cold War soldiers because theirs wasn't a "real war."
- It is the local branches that fight to keep outdated practices that do not appeal to younger veterans, while declaring that the "organization is a worthy one."

If you want to claim that the organization is worthy and moving in the right direction, then it's the shop front that needs to be fixed. It's NOT the responsibility of the prospective member to "join and make changes from within." The Legion - al all levels - has to recognize where it is broken and start to fix itself.

 

[dapaterson]

Actually, at the grass roots level of membership and organizational survival, it's all about local issues.

- It is the individual Branches that choose to go down in flames and collapse rather than amalgamate to form fewer, stronger, centralized Branches with a focus on the organization's purpose rather than defencing antiquated brick and mortar just because it was "Dad's legion."
- It is the individual Branches that chose to be unwelcoming to a generation of post war retirees and Cold War soldiers because theirs wasn't a "real war."
- It is the local branches that fight to keep outdated practices that do not appeal to younger veterans, while declaring that the "organization is a worthy one."

If you want to claim that the organization is worthy and moving in the right direction, then it's the shop front that needs to be fixed. It's NOT the responsibility of the prospective member to "join and make changes from within." The Legion - al all levels - has to recognize where it is broken and start to fix itself.

Any similarity to our collection of understrength Reserve companies masquerading as battalions is purely coincidental...

 

[Canadian.Trucker]

Any similarity to our collection of understrength Reserve companies masquerading as battalions is purely coincidental...

Just as our understrength RegF battalions and HQ's masquerading as divisions is also coincidental...

 

[dapaterson]

Just as our understrength RegF battalions and HQ's masquerading as divisions is also coincidental...

A Reg F Bn (Infantry) wil have 450-600 soldiers, trained.

A Res F Bn (Infantry) will have 100-150 soldiers, with at best 80% trained.

I can justify a LCol and CWO for the first.  Not for the second.

 

[Canadian.Trucker]

A Reg F Bn (Infantry) wil have 450-600 soldiers, trained.

A Res F Bn (Infantry) will have 100-150 soldiers, with at best 80% trained.

I can justify a LCol and CWO for the first.  Not for the second.

Fine, but my example was the division level WRT the RegF.  It's all smoke and mirrors no matter how you're cutting the cake.

And back on topic the RCL is an organization that I take with a grain of salt and all depends on the individual local, some are good others are not.  I have walked into some locals that look down upon serving members and want nothing to do with them or the advice they bring because the RCL members feel they will be overshadowed, whereas other locals openly welcome and encourage former and currently serving CAF members because they realize that the RCL exists to support those individuals.

*edit to remove the comment that could have been interpreted to be "snarky"

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Fine, but my example was the division level WRT the RegF.  It's all smoke and mirrors no matter how you're cutting the cake.

And back on topic the RCL is an organization that I take with a grain of salt and all depends on the individual local, some are good others are not.  I have walked into some locals that look down upon serving members and want nothing to do with them or the advice they bring because the RCL members feel they will be overshadowed, whereas other locals openly welcome and encourage former and currently serving CAF members because they realize that the RCL exists to support those individuals.

*edit to remove the comment that could have been interpreted to be "snarky"

The div's are bad examples because they mostly exist to support the reserve force and are quite reservist centric.  For instance, 4th Cdn Division in Toronto is definitely a reservist dominated organization.  You have 2 CMBG in Petawawa hours away from the Div Comd while all of the Res Bde Gps are right there, who do you think has the ability to influence things in that organization?

 

[Canadian.Trucker]

The div's are bad examples because they mostly exist to support the reserve force and are quite reservist centric.  For instance, 4th Cdn Division in Toronto is definitely a reservist dominated organization.  You have 2 CMBG in Petawawa hours away from the Div Comd while all of the Res Bde Gps are right there, who do you think has the ability to influence things in that organization?

Judging by what has happened in recent history to the PRes units WRT funding cut-backs, reallocation of funding and diminished capability for intake of new soldiers the Bdes are being ignored at all levels.  The butter is thin on everyone's toast.  Physical co-location does not equal more of a voice.

 

[mad dog 2020]

RCL take notice!  The decision to commit was made and our sons and daughters responded. If you don't want the consequences of decisions , don't make any!

OTTAWA -- At least one veterans group promises to campaign against the Harper Conservatives because of a stand taken by federal lawyers, who argue the country holds no extraordinary social obligation to ex-soldiers.
The lawyers, fighting a class-action lawsuit in British Columbia, asked a judge to dismiss the court action filed by injured Afghan veterans, saying Ottawa owes them nothing more than what they have already received under its controversial New Veterans Charter.
The lawsuit filed last fall by six veterans claims that the new charter, which replaces life-time pensions with workers compensation-style lump sum awards for wounds, violates the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
Mike Blais, president of Canadian Veterans Advocacy, told a Parliament Hill news conference that since the First World War, the federal government has recognized it has a "sacred obligation" to veterans and that notion was abandoned with the adoption of the veterans charter by the Conservatives.
He says his members demand the government "stand down on this ridiculous position," and if it doesn't veterans will work to see that the Conservatives are replaced.
New Democrat veterans critic Peter Stoffer says the legal implication of claiming the government has no special obligation to veterans is extremely far-reaching and he demanded the Conservatives clarify what it means.

 

[Danjanou]

All good points.

The reserve analogy is correct, someone who's now in charge (and same is in some Mo units) whether they should be so base on their skill sets, enthusiasm notwithstanding, is probably not going to give up their position for the good of the collective.

Come watch the Warriors Day Parade with Branches with less than 10 persons in parade march (or shamble I can be snarky) through the Prince's Gates. Any attempt to get the small contingent to amalgamate for one lousy parade is met with such a blast of righteous indignation  that forget about getting them to do it for real and save that Branch by joining with the one 10 minutes away. Nope both would rather go under and I fear probably will.

There are 27 Branches in Toronto now and I would guess we could/should have 18-21 that are survivable.  Care to guess which ones are the most resistant to new blood coming in?

I t does come down to the individual branch level, both for the community involvement at the basest level and because it is there change is supposed to start and move upward.

Ironically I've noted that rural branches seem to be stronger than urban ones, mind then a disproportionate number of our military seem to come from small towns ( and more than a few from Atlantic Canada) . Many will then choose to return/retire there and this gives the local Legion ANAVETS, whatever a new pool of recruits.

Add to this in really smaller communities there is a good connect between the local branch and the town. It is often one of the few places that can be rented/used for community events, weddings etc. It therefore becomes a focal point for the community and essential to it. This does not exist I feel in urban areas to the same extent at least not from I've observed.

Re the veritable alphabet of other organizations, NATO Vets CPKVA, CANVUP, CVA, VETS, VOC etc etc. all nice and good , but the squabbling plays into the hands of the VAC if in fact their efforts to screw the Vets over are deliberate or not. One unified voice, one umbrella organization is needed.

These groups like the earlier Hong Kong and Korean Vets groups were created as a response by those specific groups who felt the main stream Veterans organization ( the RCL) wasn't meeting their specific needs.

Ironically while they all espouse the "one Veteran" standard their very organization parameters suggest otherwise. Many are rather cliquish on whom they let in, didn't serve on this mission, wear this colour beret, get his medal, sorry can't join. The only Veterans Organization that actually takes all Veterans in is the one many of them bemoan. the Legion.

There is room and a need for these groups and they shouldn't be competitive. Fiddlehead is a member of ANAVETS and The RCL; I have both a NATO Veterans of Canada and a Regimental Association membership card in my wallet besides my RCL one. It's not a religion, I wasn't forced to choose between one or the other.

 

[garb811]

RCL take notice!  The decision to commit was made and our sons and daughters responded. If you don't want the consequences of decisions , don't make any!

OTTAWA -- At least one veterans group promises to campaign against the Harper Conservatives because of a stand taken by federal lawyers, who argue the country holds no extraordinary social obligation to ex-soldiers.
The lawyers, fighting a class-action lawsuit in British Columbia, asked a judge to dismiss the court action filed by injured Afghan veterans, saying Ottawa owes them nothing more than what they have already received under its controversial New Veterans Charter.
The lawsuit filed last fall by six veterans claims that the new charter, which replaces life-time pensions with workers compensation-style lump sum awards for wounds, violates the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
Mike Blais, president of Canadian Veterans Advocacy, told a Parliament Hill news conference that since the First World War, the federal government has recognized it has a "sacred obligation" to veterans and that notion was abandoned with the adoption of the veterans charter by the Conservatives.
He says his members demand the government "stand down on this ridiculous position," and if it doesn't veterans will work to see that the Conservatives are replaced.
New Democrat veterans critic Peter Stoffer says the legal implication of claiming the government has no special obligation to veterans is extremely far-reaching and he demanded the Conservatives clarify what it means.

That's all well and good but...what are they going to work to replace them with?  None of the alternatives are attractive on their best days.

 

[mariomike]

Another piece of my neighbourhood is fading into history.

Nov 25, 2013   

"After 85 years, the Swansea legion closes its doors for good

Legion sold due to rising costs, low membership"
http://www.insidetoronto.com/news-story/4231988-after-85-years-the-swansea-legion-closes-its-doors-for-good/

Photo of the exterior:
http://www.swansea.ca/gallery_Community_157.htm

Right across the street from the Town Hall and firehouse ( both still in operation ) which were both built around the same time. There used to be a police and ambulance station there too. A lot of guys from the job used to go there after shift.

A large part of our area had prohibition until 2000 when it finally voted itself "wet". Prior that, Branch 46 ( which was licenced to sell alcohol ) was a busy place.

 

[Danjanou]

I take no pleasure in thie announcement Mariomike, saw it coming months ago and it won't be the last sadly. I did receive earlier tonight the list of what's up for sale in Jan, some nice bargains to be had

 

[mariomike]

I take no pleasure in thie announcement Mariomike, saw it coming months ago and it won't be the last sadly. I did receive earlier tonight the list of what's up for sale in Jan, some nice bargains to be had

I have a lot of nice memories of the members there, Danjanou. So many of whom have passed away.

 

[pbi]

Well, believe it or not after all the negative things I've said about the Legion on these pages, I've re-joined my local branch here in Kingston. I didn't see this coming, at all.

What convinced me to join again (after many years away) was the drive and enthusiasm of the President, who had the Branch redesignated as the "Capt Matthew Dawe 632" branch, in honour of that fine Patricia officer. At the dedication ceremony, he spoke of the urgent need to make the Legion relevant to today's vets, and to be able to continue helping the vets who need help.

After listening to him, I thought "why not?": I went up to him after, thanked him, and told him that he had convinced me to rejoin. So I did.

Now, we'll see what happens. If I find out, once again, that it's just a collection of bitter old "everything haters" muttering into their beer and dissing today's CAF, I'll be gone. But, if I can find a way that we can do some good, I will stick with it.

My point is that what the Legion needs, and what will save it (if it can be saved...) is leadership.

 

[Jed]

Well, believe it or not after all the negative things I've said about the Legion on these pages, I've re-joined my local branch here in Kingston. I didn't see this coming, at all.

What convinced me to join again (after many years away) was the drive and enthusiasm of the President, who had the Branch redesignated as the "Capt Matthew Dawe 632" branch, in honour of that fine Patricia officer. At the dedication ceremony, he spoke of the urgent need to make the Legion relevant to today's vets, and to be able to continue helping the vets who need help.

After listening to him, I thought "why not?": I went up to him after, thanked him, and told him that he had convinced me to rejoin. So I did.

Now, we'll see what happens. If I find out, once again, that it's just a collection of bitter old "everything haters" muttering into their beer and dissing today's CAF, I'll be gone. But, if I can find a way that we can do some good, I will stick with it.

My point is that what the Legion needs, and what will save it (if it can be saved...) is leadership.

Well that is great news. Nice to some new (rejuvenated?) people coming on board. Good to see a legion renamed in Matthew Dawe's honour.

 

[pbi]

Well that is great news. Nice to some new (rejuvenated?) people coming on board. Good to see a legion renamed in Matthew Dawe's honour.

"Rejuvenated" is a relative term, in my case.

 

[dapaterson]

From what I've noticed in some reports, many Legion branches do not track or plan for their infra costs.  Thus they seem to be continually surprised by costs to renew their buildings - new roof, new furnace, etc etc

I know in Ontario all Condo corporations are required to conduct Reserve Fund studies every few years to ensure they are planning ahead for future costs.  It might be worthwhile for the Legion to require similar studies of their branches, to ensure their long-term viability.

 

[Danjanou]

While I probably will regret this ( I really don't remember becoming a masochist) but after some thought over the holidays ( hey nothjing else to do while sitting in a house with no power) I'm actually heading down to renew my Legion Membership and shell out my 2014 dues. If nothing else it gives me the right to continue to bitch about the old guard that is running the place into the iceberg at full speed.