Whither the Royal Canadian Legion? Or RCL Withers?

[dapaterson]

It's telling that in the bios, the Legion's internal Meritorious Service Medal is given the same pride of place as left-side medals, perhaps leaving the reader to think that they were honours from the Crown.

 

[Good2Golf]

It's telling that in the bios, the Legion's internal Meritorious Service Medal is given the same pride of place as left-side medals, perhaps leaving the reader to think that they were honours from the Crown.

I assumed it was for the Civilian Division, but didn't see any blue//white...they should be clearer and say, "awarded the Legion's Meritorious Service Medal." ???

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

  Only 25% vets in the executive is pretty telling though...

Yes it is...........but not about The Legion.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I'm pretty embarrassed at what I'm seeing from vets on Mr O'Toole's VA facebook page. A lot of childish remarks challenges and jabs. Lots of vets fighting each other and "did you even serve?! challenges.

 

[upandatom]

I have to agree that the RCL is pushed/geared and empowers WWI, WWII, and Korea alot more then Afghanistan. Saying that, that is within their right though. Not that Afghanistan should be forgotten, but it does prove they are lost in touch to the currently serving and recently retired members. I am seeing ANAFs gain more popularity amongst senior/about to retired/recently retired members. (Kingstons near the base usually has a fair amount of people in it). They are very different wars, different circumstances, different reasons. WW1 and WW2 had the support of the whole Country (Most except for Quebec) to "Go get em boys" unlike Afghanistan where alot of people were confused as to why we were there really, and alot of people disagreeing with the fact of us being there(Media not helping with very little explanation to the good we were doing there). Lets not kid ourselves either, the general populace in Canada is nowhere near as patriotic as our southern neighbours.
There is a huge disconnect between the RCL and the members serving now. Members serving/retiring now arent seen as veterans by the general population. In that sense, they would get the feeling direction they arent, and in turn they would not join, they would turn to an ANAF if they chose.

Leave that to the side, and other people are leaving the military out of frustration, whether it be they dont want to leave and are being shown the door, or are not happy and getting fed up, or something like the government approving the new VAC and feel abandoned, lost. What is the Legion going to do about it. Thus far nothing. 
So those members keep their distance.

 

[Brasidas]

Its been said before - the Legion, as in the old boys' club of WWI and WWII vets, never wanted us. My father, with 20 years service (including Desert Storm), wasn't a "veteran". The Korea guys were less than welcome. It was their club, and it stayed that way up until they got to haggard to do it anymore, when they brought their kids in to inherit it.

They didn't "lose touch", they never had it.

It was a club for a very specific demographic: early- to mid-twentieth century civilians who rallied to the colours during total war when everybody felt they had to. All their hometown friends were there and there wasn't a hell of a lot of political disagreement for club advocacy to overcome, because it was a club of the dominant demographic. Professional soldiers and part-time reservists, even at the time, were not part and parcel of that group.

This is not a club that's gone astray from its mission, its a club that has, in spirit at least, always focussed on what it considers important - the wishes of its own members. And it continues to succeed in that mission.

 

[jollyjacktar]

When my dad got back to Calgary from overseas, he went into the #1 Branch downtown.  In uniform as well, IIRC, he was f'd off and told to hit the bricks.  Needless to say he was bitter and twisted for many years and would have nothing to do with them because of that.  Eventually he did forgive and joined, but never forgot.

 

[Jed]

When my dad got back to Calgary from overseas, he went into the #1 Branch downtown.  In uniform as well, IIRC, he was f'd off and told to hit the bricks.  Needless to say he was bitter and twisted for many years and would have nothing to do with them because of that. Eventually he did forgive and joined, but never forgot.

My uncle got back from WWII having been an RCAF airman who was stationed mostly in England and then bounced over to Germany. When he got back the Legion more or less told him to f'k off as he was not  Cbt arms (some things never change) He never did join the RCL.

Also of note, some of the old guard in the Legion after WWII were Cbt Arms but never deployed.  It was pretty much who you knew in the Branch or Zone.

 

[OldSolduer]

When my dad got back to Calgary from overseas, he went into the #1 Branch downtown.  In uniform as well, IIRC, he was f'd off and told to hit the bricks.  Needless to say he was bitter and twisted for many years and would have nothing to do with them because of that.  Eventually he did forgive and joined, but never forgot.

This needs to be avoided. It must be inclusive to all veterans - Cyprus, Croatia etc....or the RCL will become even more alienated.

 

[mariomike]

Lets be fair...a lot of these legions need modernizing, and young people don't exactly see it as Moxies, Lone Star, Jack Tuesdays, Don Cherry's, etc

Nov 09, 2015

Legions embrace rock shows, gastro pubs to keep doors open
Canada's legions are getting creative and will try anything to stay alive in changing times

A half-naked front man paces a well-worn Calgary stage, screaming frenetically at a crowd of enthusiastic heavy metal fans.
It's just another night at Calgary's No. 1 Legion.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/royal-canadian-legion-remembrance-day-poppy-1.3306138

 

[OldSolduer]

Nov 09, 2015

Legions embrace rock shows, gastro pubs to keep doors open
Canada's legions are getting creative and will try anything to stay alive in changing times

A half-naked front man paces a well-worn Calgary stage, screaming frenetically at a crowd of enthusiastic heavy metal fans.
It's just another night at Calgary's No. 1 Legion.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/royal-canadian-legion-remembrance-day-poppy-1.3306138

Hell of a good idea. Younger vets need to know they will be welcomed.

 

[Michael OLeary]

Hell of a good idea. Younger vets need to know they will be welcomed.

It still leaves the question: what are the other 1400 branches doing to get on board the 21st century train? One branch in Calgary bringing in rock bands doesn't do anything to make any other branch more welcoming. The Legion has good institutional values, but it's broken at the Branch level in so many places because they are locked in a cycle of perpetuating the service club environments that their fathers belonged to. The Legion, as an institution, has to promote change among its Branches to develop a bow wave of modernization. It needs more momentum than individuals trying to change individual branches can produce. Where is the institutional leadership?

 

[the 48th regulator]

It still leaves the question: what are the other 1400 branches doing to get on board the 21st century train? One branch in Calgary bringing in rock bands doesn't do anything to make any other branch more welcoming. The Legion has good institutional values, but it's broken at the Branch level in so many places because they are locked in a cycle of perpetuating the service club environments that their fathers belonged to. The Legion, as an institution, has to promote change among its Branches to develop a bow wave of modernization. It needs more momentum than individuals trying to change individual branches can produce. Where is the institutional leadership?

A branch in Toronto has also embraced modern thinking.  They have opened up to Medical Marijuana and allow a support group for Veterans to be held there, Run by MFT (Marijuana For Trauma).  I will be at the next Meeting, be there or be square!!

Legion making changes to halt dwindling membership

THe first couple of seconds the Gent speaking is a friend of mine, and a Huge Supporter of Army.ca!!!!

 

[RocketRichard]

My branch is active on social media, Facebook, Twitter etc and we are engaging with younger potential members to work 'changing the guard' as it were. 

 

[mariomike]

One branch in Calgary bringing in rock bands doesn't do anything to make any other branch more welcoming.

Not just "death metal concerts". ( As the article describes them. )

"From professional wrestling matches to e-cigarette "vaping" competitions, no event is too bizarre to be booked, provided they can pay.
"The other one was that circus thing where that woman was taking condoms out of her nose," MacCauley says. "I mean that's bizarre, but bizarre or not, that's what is paying the bills."

"Susan MacCauley, the No. 1 Legion branch's general manager, will book pretty much anything into her legion provided they are willing to pay."

"MacCauley hopes hosting events that attract a younger crowd will not only help with bills, but also boost membership sales."

A branch in Toronto has also embraced modern thinking.  They have opened up to Medical Marijuana and allow a support group for Veterans to be held there, Run by MFT (Marijuana For Trauma). 

Interesting website. They seem to be reaching out to everyone: "Our main priority is to provide Veterans of the Canadian Military, Civilians and all First Responders (police, firefighters, EMT) with the first class service and care they deserve."
http://mftgroup.plantsnotpills.ca/about-us/

Something else in the Legion's favour,

Legions, First Nations exempt from new anti-smoking rules
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sudbury/legions-first-nations-exempt-from-new-anti-smoking-rules-1.2895055

"Legions were exempt under previous municipal bylaws, and that exemption has been carried over into Ontario's new law said Michael Perley, director of the Ontario campaign for Action on Tobacco."

Similar to when, as recently as 2000, the local Legion was the only place you could buy alcohol in the Junction area of Toronto.

 

[Strike]

I joined the 631 here in Kingston and, although he general membership is somewhat old, they are very open to ideas on how to get the word out and encourage the younger crowd (middle aged and below) interested in coming out.

It's already a watering hole for former and current Patricia's since they named it afte Matt Dawe, and the engineering unit comes out every Friday aft or so and when they have mug outs.

I am also planning on getting to work on their social media campaign.  The woman who currently runs it is very eager to bring me into the fold and, seeing that no one on the executive seems to have an issue accepting help from those who might have experiences that could benefit, is a big deal for me, especially after seeing what happened to the number 9 Legion downtown some time ago.

 

[runormal]

The legions in the area I grew up  in,
(Small towns in south-western ontario) constantly were (and still are) the place for local bands to have concerts. Granted there wasnt a constant demand but if there was a concert it would be at the legion. For at least the past 10 years.... I also had a few friends who went to school in Ridgetown and the Legion was "the place to drink".

Edit:with Buck and does starting to become cost prohibitive due to all of the rules involed, I wonder if the Legion "will open it's doors further" to provide an alternate option. (Though I'm not entirely sure how alcohol consumption works at a private event as I left the area before I turned 19).

Maybe it is just a small town thing but it never seemed to be an issue to use the Legion.

 

[Tibbson]

The legions in the area I grew up  in,
(Small towns in south-western ontario) constantly were (and still are) the place for local bands to have concerts. Granted there wasnt a constant demand but if there was a concert it would be at the legion. For at least the past 10 years.... I also had a few friends who went to school in Ridgetown and the Legion was "the place to drink".

So this and a few similar posts from others raise a question for me.  Are some Legions more interested in renting out their facilities so the can afford to stay open or do some of these activities actually assist (or even build) the membership?  As an almost 50 year old soon to be retired serviceman I really could care less about the public having a place to drink or a venue for concerts.  Others have noted professional wrestling matches, e-cigarette "vaping" competitions or even a circus thing where that woman was taking condoms out of her nose. 

While I understand that many organizations such as the Legion need to fine revenue streams in order to stay open it still needs to serve its membership.  Many Masonic Lodges or Shrine Centers have facilities that can be rented out by members or even the public they still manage to serve their membership. 

I attended the local Remembrance service today and since I'm new to the city I made a point of stopping into the Legion with the hopes of meeting some people and just spending an afternoon with whatever local Vets were in attendance.  Nice place, typical older membership (although I'm admittedly getting up there in years myself) and the list of upcoming events seemed a little too stereotypical to me.  Euchre nights, scotch tasting evening, a bunch of private events when the facilities would be closed to the membership and the monthly business meeting.  Nothing to catch me eye personally but it was soon clear they are looking for members.  Two verbal comments that I should join and one membership application passed to me before I left.  "You know, we could use some younger members and some new blood around here".

I'm not against the Legion at all but I don't see anything that attracts me to it.  I won't speak ill about them and to be perfectly honest I don't have a solution to their problems. 

 

[dapaterson]

The Legion's problems are legion.  According to CTV (http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/royal-canadian-legion-hopes-to-reverse-declining-membership-1.2654579), 20% of their members are over 80 years old.  From the halls I've visited, it's clear that most facilities lack a long-term building plan, and are a burst boiler or leaking roof away from disaster.  Indeed, when I googled Legion Financial Report there were numerous news reports of Legions in trouble, some receiving property tax rebates to remain afloat; the one set of financials I did find had the auditors note that they had lost over $1.3M over the past 19 years, and only shown a surplus in three of those years, concluding that the report was written assuming that it was a going concern, but that such an assumption might not hold true much longer.

I don't have a miracle cure or solution. I don't think there is one; Legion Halls serve different purposes in different places - smaller communities may be more likely to rally 'round their local Legion, while larger, urban areas have other options for socializing, other options for facilities.  I do share your concern that in their efforts to scramble to find money to keep the heat and lights on that the raison d'etre could be lost.

 

[Blackadder1916]

A half-naked front man paces a well-worn Calgary stage, screaming frenetically at a crowd of enthusiastic heavy metal fans.
It's just another night at Calgary's No. 1 Legion.

Now if it was a half-naked man (or woman) screaming frenetically in front of Calgary's No.1 legion, that would be just another night down on that part of 7th Ave.  Well, it was like that almost 40 years ago when we (as privates) would occasionally head down that way (usually in a group for protection) to go to the hotel dive bars that used to bracket the No. 1 branch.  We were more welcomed in the bars than that Legion.  Those hotels are now closed (torn down to make room for "progress") but the area is still sketchy.  I wouldn't be in the area after dark if I could help it.