Why a Marine Corps?

[brihard]

This presentation by Thomas Barnett is both interesting and tangentially relevant in the larger picture. I'm sure some of you will have seen it, but I'm equally sure others will not have. There's some good food for thought in here.

http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/thomas_barnett_draws_a_new_map_for_peace.html

 

[daftandbarmy]

This presentation by Thomas Barnett is both interesting and tangentially relevant in the larger picture. I'm sure some of you will have seen it, but I'm equally sure others will not have. There's some good food for thought in here.

http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/thomas_barnett_draws_a_new_map_for_peace.html

'Peace' is an oxymoron to the USMC! (Thank Gawd)

 

[MarkOttawa]

daftandbarmy: I recently heard a pretty senior British Army officer, who had spent some time with the Royal Marines and is approaching retirement, say that he was told by his HR people that the more he could make of the RM on his resume the better any future job prospects would be.  The love spreads.

Mark
Ottawa

 

[MarkOttawa]

SecDef seems satisfied for now:

Gates Accepts Marines' Future Plan
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/defense/index.jsp?plckController=Blog&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&newspaperUserId=27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7&plckPostId=Blog:27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7Post:d79e08a5-6d79-4a85-b76f-37559e1fe368&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest

The Marine Corps Force Structure Review Group reported to Defense Secretary Robert Gates on Monday of last week, and Gates endorsed its conclusions, according to Corps assistant commandant Gen. Joseph Dunford.

The review supports the F-35B Joint Strike Fighter and the need for a new amphibious vehicle, Dunford said, and a request for information on the latter will be issued this week.

The questions raised last summer by deputy Navy Secretary Robert Work and by Gates himself about the Marines' future "created not a little bit of angst," in the Corps, Dunford said.

"Paranoia is one of our core competencies," he added, "but rumors of our demise have been greatly exaggerated."

The FSRG aims at restructuring the Marines as a high-readiness force aimed at  irregular and hybrid warfare. Core recommendations from the group include:

    * The force will be "rightsized" for the post-Afghanistan environment, which means no immediate reductions, and that it will be 2014-15.
    * The USMC will support a crisis force built around two Marine Expeditionary Unit brigades and 33 ships.
    * The Corps command structure will be leaned and flattened.
    * The Marines will increase their cyberwarfare and special operations forces.

"In the next 6-8 months we'll be taking a detailed look at timing, organization, equipment and strategy," Dunford added...

The Marines are working on "a presumption of success" with the Joint Strike Fighter, Dunford says. "We continue to believe that STOVL is vital." Marine Commandant Gen James Amos "will be the program manager for the B", Dunford says.

Thursday morning, Navy acquisition chief Sean Stackley said that he was "in Gen Dunford's camp" on the F-35B issue and that he had "high confidence" that the F-35B will succeed. However, he described the amphibious vehicle goal as "aggressive, particularly at the four-year end."

Defining requirements, Stackley said, will involve a look at the entire amphibious warfare concept of operations, including the anti-ship cruise missile threat, because that will determine how closely the Navy's ships can stand-in. "If we start the new amphibious vehicle with the same requirements as the EFV, we'll likely get the same outcome."

Mark
Ottawa

 

[ArmyRick]

I like that concept very much "The command structure will be leaned and flattened..." 

 

[Steve1987]

The only time in history I believe the Marines got the best equipment (correct me again if I am wrong) was their first deployment. I can't remember the battle but it was against the Spanish (I believe) and they were given brand new rifles but the Kar (german rifle) proved to be better at the time.

Slightly off track but the Marines were the first U.S. branch to switch to digital camo uniforms, and made a smart decision going with the woodland and desert patterns like us, while the U.S. Army is having all sorts of issues finding something that works, and I've heard the new navy and air force digital patterns are pretty terrible.  I think their idea of issuing equipment is Coyote that seems to work anywhere is also pretty smart, they seem to have the best uniform and camo solutions for multiple terrains without excessive costs of making stuff like belts and pouches in two colors. So I guess I would have to agree also they don't always get shafted, that was just the first thing that came to mind to me.

 

[aesop081]

and I've heard the new navy and air force digital patterns are pretty terrible.

The USAF one is the same as the US Army.

The USN one works for the USN.......they dont exactly walk through the bush with it.

 

[Journeyman]

The USN one works for the USN.......they don't exactly walk through the bush with it.

Well some do. (Hey, I've SEEN Charlie Sheen in "Navy Seals")  Of course, those folks tend to dress differently anyway 

I believe one of the strengths of the Marines is that from Day 1 in Recruit Camp, every Marine is indoctrinated that "you are a rifleman first." It becomes a matter of pride, particularly amongst non-infantry supporting the pointy end, as well as staff officers down the road when it comes to funding allocations.

I've found that, in Combined/Joint briefings, the USMC powerpoints weren't quite as slick as Army or Airforce -- with the response,  " 'pretty' isn't my load station."  ;D  So while they're just as guilty of HQ bloat as anyone else, I suspect it' a matter of degree; they'll have less 'flattening' to do.

 

[Steve1987]

The USAF one is the same as the US Army.

The USN one works for the USN.......they dont exactly walk through the bush with it.

I understand that it may work onboard ship, but anywhere else?

The USAF uses the same colors as ACU, but a different pattern.  I've read elsewhere that the USAF tunics tend to overheat from excessive material, and some guys are slimming them down removing the extra layers.  With multi-cam being issued to personnel in Afghanistan I guess the U.S. Army realized the colors in UCP/ACU just don't work as well as originally thought and it doesn't look like it have saved any money in the long run if they already have multiple patterns in use again.

Just seems that MARPAT woodland and desert patterns with simple cut well thought pockets and functions with the use of Coyote accessories and boots seems to be the way to go.  Not trying to turn this into a camo discussion, but it's one way that I see the USMC procurement better than that of the U.S. Army.

-Steve

 

[daftandbarmy]

daftandbarmy: I recently heard a pretty senior British Army officer, who had spent some time with the Royal Marines and is approaching retirement, say that he was told by his HR people that the more he could make of the RM on his resume the better any future job prospects would be.  The love spreads.

Mark
Ottawa

Yes, especially if he served with the RM Band!  ;D

 

[MarkOttawa]

Latest on Marines' plans:

Marines: Rightsizing into "middleweight" force
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/mar/03/marines-rightsizing-middleweight-fighting-force/

After 10 years of acting as America’s second land army, the U.S. Marine Corps will be slimmed down to “middleweight” fighter status, its leader says.

Now, details from an internal Marine review of forces offer a glimpse at how the leaner fighting machine will look.

As the Corps goes from 202,000 to 187,000 people after the end of fighting in Afghanistan, the trimming will hit virtually every major command — and likely will be felt in San Diego County, the West Coast hub for Marine ground and air forces...

“...if you look at the Marine Corps, it’s roughly 40 percent at Camp LeJeune, 40 percent at Camp Pendleton, 20 percent in Okinawa, (Japan.) You figure it should go approximately in that ratio.”

Combat ground forces will be thinned out, including cutting infantry battalions from 27 to 24, cannon artillery battalions from nine to seven and armored companies from 10 to eight, according to information recently released by the Marine Corps’ Combat Development Command in Quantico, Va...

In the aviation realm, the Corps plans to eliminate four headquarters for support units, including one in the reserves.

Miramar Marine Corps Air Station is home of the 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing, including Marine Wing Support Group 37, led by a colonel.

Today’s logistics groups will be flattened and parts will be reassigned to infantry and expeditionary units...

Despite these cuts, the Marine also plan to increase two small specialty sectors — “cyber” jobs by 67 percent and special operations positions by 44 percent...

Fast forward to last month, when new Marine Commandant Gen. James Amos in another San Francisco speech described how he sees his Corps shaping up.

Amos said he is going to “rightsize” his force, likening it to a middleweight boxer who can push his weight up or down based on training and need.

“Larger than special operations forces, but lighter and more expeditionary than conventional Army units, we engage and respond quickly – often from the sea – with enough force to carry the day upon arrival,” he said.

Amos said his Marines got used to a “culture of plenty” during the past decade of war, but added that he is rededicating them to “our frugal roots.”

“Marines have historically been known as ‘the Penny Pinchers,’ ” Amos said. “At the end of the day, Congress and the American people know that the Marine Corps is a value and that we only ask for what we truly need.”..

Mark
Ottawa