A
Agamemnon
Guest
Running is more usefull on the modern battlefield but some hand to hand combat cant do any harm...to you that is..
Why do we Run ??
- Thread starter poko
- Start date
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
If you are dismounted, and a vehicle is not immediately available, your Black Cadillac's will need engines that are in decent repair for you to get around.
PT wise, I'd rather ruck march. Running I'd rather do during fire and movement; don't have the ruck on my back, and there is someone to â Å“...close with and destroy...â ?.
Unarmed Combat is a good back-up/fall-back. After you've cleared a trench (empty mag), you still have your bayonet and rifle butt if another enemy suddenly shows up around the corner. If your weapon gets tangled up at that close range, for whatever reason, your hands and feet are a good contingency.
PT wise, I'd rather ruck march. Running I'd rather do during fire and movement; don't have the ruck on my back, and there is someone to â Å“...close with and destroy...â ?.
Unarmed Combat is a good back-up/fall-back. After you've cleared a trench (empty mag), you still have your bayonet and rifle butt if another enemy suddenly shows up around the corner. If your weapon gets tangled up at that close range, for whatever reason, your hands and feet are a good contingency.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 60
I think that close combat is important in a small sense. We have to deal with angry people who are not hostile off the bat and might come up to a fence or a gate and ask for something to the guy nearest or guarding it and then they may become hostile. It might be too close to use a weapon or they might not be a big enough threat, but you might need to bring them down to the ground at some point and hold them down, and not kill them. On a peacekeepig mission in a a building or sopmething. I am posting an opinion on what could happen, it probably has once or twice, I don't want to get held on this, but yes, I think hand to hand combat is important.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
I agree that CQB training is important for the combat arms, but it definately souldn't replace running. Many people suggest that if you're close enough to karate chop the bad guy, you should just shoot them, or give 'em showing of mr. bayonet. This is all well and good in theory, but in the close confines of urban combat one may not be able to ready their weapon in a narrow hallway. Or if your weapon should fail and the enemy is already has a weapon out or by drawing a secondary weapon too much time may be spent while they are slotting you. This is where hand-to-hand comes into play. Anyone can throw a punch, kick, or stab you, that's exactly what the enemy will do to you, so one has to be taught how to counter these attacks.
Hand-to-hand skills should be taught and excecuted with the idea to kill the enemy and not engage in a sparring match. While sparring does develop some CQB skills, there is too much "sport leakage" in martial arts. Martial arts has become too complacent and has developed more with the idea of ring fighting. CQB training should be exactly what the name emplies. At the same time, skills taught should be simple but not too simple. As I said, anyone can punch, but train to go from someone attacking you, to you striking them several time and doing a takedown or throw and finishing the fight. Like stoppage drills, these skills must be trained regularly to become muscle memory.
Hand-to-hand skills should be taught and excecuted with the idea to kill the enemy and not engage in a sparring match. While sparring does develop some CQB skills, there is too much "sport leakage" in martial arts. Martial arts has become too complacent and has developed more with the idea of ring fighting. CQB training should be exactly what the name emplies. At the same time, skills taught should be simple but not too simple. As I said, anyone can punch, but train to go from someone attacking you, to you striking them several time and doing a takedown or throw and finishing the fight. Like stoppage drills, these skills must be trained regularly to become muscle memory.
S
SHARP WO
Guest
We run because we must, think back to the platoon flanking, your humping all your gear and ammo, your 500m from the objective, the firebase is running low on ammo, everyone is moving their way to the start line, if H hour is in ten minutes you have to run, you dont want to lose the momentum. Your clearing the objective, a quick sprint and your on the enemy, a casual jog, your a target.
If your opponent is fit, you have to be better. If your opponent is an olympic runner, you have to be better.
SHARP WO
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 410
speaking for myself only, I've been deployed overseas three times. Not once have I had to shoot anyone, or run to/away from a gunfight. I HAVE had to beat a few people up, however. (I had a really fun day in Bosnia once. 
) I think it's a good question, and a valid point. I don't want to see a large reduction in running or rucksack marching, but I would like to see more hand-to-gland and more emphasis on weight resistance training. (I needed the extra size I carry around that day.) It doesn't have to come at the expense of 'regular' PT. It can be impromptu, spur of the moment stuff. We simply need more Unarmed Combat Instructors at the lower levels to cover the Army's ass, and check the correct boxes. There are plenty of days when the troops are sitting around bored and bitching. There's no reason why a MCpl/Cpl couldn't grab a few and go over some basics in defending yourself on civvie-street, arrest techniques for peace-keeping Ops, or "This is how you kill, Johnny".
In the meantime, I heartily recommend everyone to take some form of Martial Art/Unarmed Combat system. For many reasons, fitness being quite low amongst those reasons. Controlled aggression, discipline, enhanced confidence, enhanced situational awareness, fun, the ability to defend yourself and others, these spring to mind before physcial fitness.
) I think it's a good question, and a valid point. I don't want to see a large reduction in running or rucksack marching, but I would like to see more hand-to-gland and more emphasis on weight resistance training. (I needed the extra size I carry around that day.) It doesn't have to come at the expense of 'regular' PT. It can be impromptu, spur of the moment stuff. We simply need more Unarmed Combat Instructors at the lower levels to cover the Army's ass, and check the correct boxes. There are plenty of days when the troops are sitting around bored and bitching. There's no reason why a MCpl/Cpl couldn't grab a few and go over some basics in defending yourself on civvie-street, arrest techniques for peace-keeping Ops, or "This is how you kill, Johnny". In the meantime, I heartily recommend everyone to take some form of Martial Art/Unarmed Combat system. For many reasons, fitness being quite low amongst those reasons. Controlled aggression, discipline, enhanced confidence, enhanced situational awareness, fun, the ability to defend yourself and others, these spring to mind before physcial fitness.
Paracowboy makes a very good point.
What is more effective to get a detainee undercontrol? A rifle that if shot will land you in shackles or some hand to hand.
Now running is very important. No matter how much skill you have in the ninja department, if you are not in shape you will get your *** handed to you.
A high level of fitness is more important, however, basic hand to hand should be taught also. But not at the cost of traditional PT, they should complement each other.
J
What is more effective to get a detainee undercontrol? A rifle that if shot will land you in shackles or some hand to hand.
Now running is very important. No matter how much skill you have in the ninja department, if you are not in shape you will get your *** handed to you.
A high level of fitness is more important, however, basic hand to hand should be taught also. But not at the cost of traditional PT, they should complement each other.
J
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
I like to think of running as a 'Necessary Evil.' It's not something that everyone likes to do or is good at, but it has to be done to stay in shape.
Sure you can go to the gym and do other cardio as a whole or on your own time, but it seems to me that it needs to be done as a group to keep guys in shape.
From my experience, anyone that says "I can't run, but I can ruck all day!"
Bull Shit. The same guys that are always praying for it to be over on a morning run, are usually the same ones falling out on the long marches. Both need to be done to stay effectively fit.
As for hand to hand combat, it is definetely something that should be emphasized more in Battle School(do they still teach it there?) and it could be easily done in Bn more if they ran a few courses every once in awhile.
Pugil would also be something good to carry out every now and then. It's good training if it's done right and it's a good way to get out aggression instead of doing it downtown on friday.
Sure you can go to the gym and do other cardio as a whole or on your own time, but it seems to me that it needs to be done as a group to keep guys in shape.
From my experience, anyone that says "I can't run, but I can ruck all day!"
Bull Shit. The same guys that are always praying for it to be over on a morning run, are usually the same ones falling out on the long marches. Both need to be done to stay effectively fit.
As for hand to hand combat, it is definetely something that should be emphasized more in Battle School(do they still teach it there?) and it could be easily done in Bn more if they ran a few courses every once in awhile.
Pugil would also be something good to carry out every now and then. It's good training if it's done right and it's a good way to get out aggression instead of doing it downtown on friday.
- Reaction score
- 6
- Points
- 430
GerryCan said:
Nope, in my case at least it's true... I pronate (My foot turns outward) when I run, resulting it horrible form while running, and resulting in severe and painful cramping in my foot/ankle after a couple of kilometers. For whatever reason, this doesn't happen while walking/rucking, and I'm always able to hold my place in the pack when rucking, and always more then happy to act as marker, as short sprints don't result in the same cramps and pain in the foot that extended jogs/runs do.
- Reaction score
- 6
- Points
- 430
I should note too... I agree that running is a nessascary evil, when working out on my own, I'll generally run to start the workout, until the pain/cramping occurs, then I'll work out on cardio machines for an hour or two, then back to running until I stop again due to cramping/pain...
When running with a group, the only real option I have is to play through the pain, not really somthing healthy to do, but I never drop out.
When running with a group, the only real option I have is to play through the pain, not really somthing healthy to do, but I never drop out.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 410
I can honestly say I've never seen so much thought put into basic running.
Interval or fartlek training I can understand but not much beyond monitoring your recovery time for improvement.
But good lord..just..put one foot infront of the other at an increasing pace until you notice yourself breathing heavier...why? Because what else are you going to do at 5 in the morning???
It'd be funny to see this conversationg in real life wouldn't it?
"Sgt. why do we run?"
yeaahhh...
Interval or fartlek training I can understand but not much beyond monitoring your recovery time for improvement.
But good lord..just..put one foot infront of the other at an increasing pace until you notice yourself breathing heavier...why? Because what else are you going to do at 5 in the morning???
It'd be funny to see this conversationg in real life wouldn't it?
"Sgt. why do we run?"
yeaahhh...
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
delavan said:
Ask that to the guys who went into houses in Afghanistan or the Americains in Iraq. In the new battlefield, you are fighting more in urban centres and less in the open fields. The chances of hand to hand combat in fibua situations is a lot higher and now that we seem to bipass the open fields and take control of urban centres, what is the chances that hand to hand is going to increase.
Maybe our training is the problem? I do think running is important but variety is the spice of life.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 410
okay, how's this?Che said:
"Why do we Run? 'Cause we're told to. Suck it up."
Better? ;D
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 160
I think your missing the point here no body said anything about not running. Runnign is good for you. Just trying to find out what people think about the idear of having martial art to rplace some of the pt.
Plus if you dont ask question how will you learn.
How will the army move forward if nobody ask question (at the right time ofcourse). :warstory:
Plus if you dont ask question how will you learn.
How will the army move forward if nobody ask question (at the right time ofcourse). :warstory:
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 410
I don't think anybody missed the point, and the general consensus seems to be that Hand-to-Gland IN ADDITION to normal PT is probably the answer (read my first post in this thread). The problem now, is working out the logistics.poko said:I think your missing the point here no body said anything about not running. Runnign is good for you. Just trying to find out what people think about the idear of having martial art to rplace some of the pt.
Plus if you dont ask question how will you learn.
How will the army move forward if nobody ask question (at the right time ofcourse). :warstory:
