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Why is the military so right wing?

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Adrian_888

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I got a question.  Why does it seem that so many people in the military are all right winged and don't like socialist/liberal ideas?  I know that in this forum, i have seen people make fun of people by calling them left wings and communist, i don't see why you cant be in the military and still support left wing parties.
 
Let's just be polite and say that their thought processes are usually not conducive to friendly, educated and coherent conversation in a Military Environment.
 
Or let's say that there are serving members that are supporters of left wing parties and ideologies but by and large people in the services generally balance order and freedom differently than socialists.

Perhaps it would fair to say that CF members value order and conformity on the job and freedom off the job while socialists seem constantly desirous of imposing order and conformity everywhere in all things.  Even though they  preach the virtues of individual freedom they expect all good individuals to come to the same answers.  And if they don't don't see the light then they must be aberrant and re-educated or otherwise dealt with.
 
Because the military is a lifestyle - not a hobby or fleeting affiliation.

I think the military is right leaning because the right usually espouses a "realist" worldview in which events and people are viewed in a simple context of whether they help or harm your objectives, in their current form. In other words, military men deal with the "here and now" in terms of how they view things, and superimpose this onto their (or their larger collective's) objectives.

"Left" leaning people and groups are nearly always predisposed towards drastic change, insofar as it benefits them. They temper this penchant for change by referring to themselves collectively as "the people" (proletariat/workers/downtrodden) and demanding concessions from the ruling group (whoever it may be). Whether this involves the handicapping of industry with the Kyoto Accord, stealing a provinces resource revenue, or redistribution of land to a wider group, the goal on the surface is always the more equal distribution of something. Inevitably though, this involves rewarding inaction and installing a new bourgeoise in place of the old one.

In my experience military members usually embrace the first philosophy because it appeals to their personal values and theory that hard work and intelligence are rewarded, while inaction and sloth are not. I find those that embrace the leftist worldviews are usually those who either tried and failed to succeed, and are now seeking an easy way up, or those who chose never to work at all, and now expect a faceless entity (usually "the government" or "the corporations") to give them something in exchange for their utopian speech.

Finally, the left in Canada has not been kind to the military, with recent leaders insinuating that Canadian troops are "war criminals" or "terrorists" at worst, and patsies of the US neocons at best. Alexa McDonough (sp?) told troops in Kandahar that it was a "long road to rebuilding Afghanistan", and two days later, in the House of Commons, demanded that the troops be pulled out, and applauded when Jack Layton called Canadian soldiers "possibly complicit in war crimes". Earlier lefties suggested that Canadian troops "only be trained in defensive tactics", that soldiers should be picking garbage in highway ditches when not deployed and that Canada forfeit certain weapons because they were "inhumane".
 
GO!!! said:
Because the military is a lifestyle - not a hobby or fleeting affiliation.

I think the military is right leaning because the right usually espouses a "realist" worldview in which events and people are viewed in a simple context of whether they help or harm your objectives, in their current form. In other words, military men deal with the "here and now" in terms of how they view things, and superimpose this onto their (or their larger collective's) objectives.

"Left" leaning people and groups are nearly always predisposed towards drastic change, insofar as it benefits them. They temper this penchant for change by referring to themselves collectively as "the people" (proletariat/workers/downtrodden) and demanding concessions from the ruling group (whoever it may be). Whether this involves the handicapping of industry with the Kyoto Accord, stealing a provinces resource revenue, or redistribution of land to a wider group, the goal on the surface is always the more equal distribution of something. Inevitably though, this involves rewarding inaction and installing a new bourgeoise in place of the old one.

In my experience military members usually embrace the first philosophy because it appeals to their personal values and theory that hard work and intelligence are rewarded, while inaction and sloth are not. I find those that embrace the leftist worldviews are usually those who either tried and failed to succeed, and are now seeking an easy way up, or those who chose never to work at all, and now expect a faceless entity (usually "the government" or "the corporations") to give them something in exchange for their utopian speech.

Finally, the left in Canada has not been kind to the military, with recent leaders insinuating that Canadian troops are "war criminals" or "terrorists" at worst, and patsies of the US neocons at best. Alexa McDonough (sp?) told troops in Kandahar that it was a "long road to rebuilding Afghanistan", and two days later, in the House of Commons, demanded that the troops be pulled out, and applauded when Jack Layton called Canadian soldiers "possibly complicit in war crimes". Earlier lefties suggested that Canadian troops "only be trained in defensive tactics", that soldiers should be picking garbage in highway ditches when not deployed and that Canada forfeit certain weapons because they were "inhumane".


Go I think you got it....  nice reply
 
+1 with GO

As soon as I saw the two of them do a flip flop and accused fellow soldiers as war criminals and the like, they lost all credibility to not only me but MANY others in the CF.

As such, most of the more left-wing ideologists that visit this site have a preconceived notion of us and what we do, therefore are normally met, understandably, with contempt.

My 0.02 donkey dollars worth

Regards
 
+++ die-hard leftists cannot / will not change their personal views no matter what facts are put forward; they usually cannot see past the rim of the view of their world through their rose-coloured glasses; they have their heads buried in sand, but would hopefully have their outlook on the  actual, real world change if they spent some quality time (instead of 'PR' time) living in the sand and see what their soldiers are accomplishing and the disaster that would still be continuing if Canada was not there....but I respect their views (though not in agreement) because of the sacrifices of our past military heros.
 
Adrian,
If you want to be left wing and support your views in a clear & coherent manner, then the boys & girls on the forum will give you the respect you're looking for....... If it's only diatribe and cliches for all..... then you probably won't find this place all that much fun.

BTW - I do have some Liberal views.  I don't feel intimidated or bullied by the gang.  Talk the talk & walk the walk and you're good to go.

Chimo!
 
A liberal or socialist is really just a conservative that has not been robbed yet. 
 
Well the NDP, Greens have an airy-fairy concept of what an army should be, are not willing to spend the money so it can do it's job and then will expect miracles from the soldiers they have discriminated against for year. If something goes wrong they will blame the soldier. Soldier being relatively bright types have figured this out already.


Also soldier generally like to play with things that go bang, Lefties arbour the private ownership of firearms (with a few notable exceptions) and wish to take away that right.

Soldiers are also big on personal responsibility, the left loves committees where no can be blamed for dumb ideas that didn't work, a bit of a culture clash there.

I came from a long time NDP family, as the NDP moved from a rural to urban base they lost me.
 
Adrian_888 said:
I got a question.  Why does it seem that so many people in the military are all right winged and don't like socialist/liberal ideas?  I know that in this forum, i have seen people make fun of people by calling them left wings and communist, i don't see why you cant be in the military and still support left wing parties.

Socialism and liberalism are diametrically opposed one to the other.

Socialism is all about the collective good.  It, like organized religion, is a highly conservative ideology.

Liberalism rests on the idea that each individual is sovereign – answerable only to himself (herself) for words, deed and results thereof.

Socialism and liberalism could not be farther apart.

The professional military has been, since classic Greece, a voluntary association of sovereign individuals who accept discipline and rigorous training and then make sacrifices to multiply their effectiveness in order to defend their communities and promote and protect the vital interests of their nations.

Large, conscript armies, the levee en masse, etc, are the tools of socialists.

Socialism does not find a happy home in a professional military force because it is antithetical to the idea of voluntary service and sacrifice.
 
+1 GO!!!

You hit the nail on the head. 

My own take of things is generally centre-right -- enough consideration to the bigger group that plays the "we're all part of a larger society" thing, yet not putting up with a self-centered "what's in it for me and others who feel that society owes us something because we like to partake of the benefit of a stable and reasoned society yet think that some of the tough choices that our society (as actioned through our democratically-elected government) makes are a bit to mean to some people"...  In short, I have no problem with people who like to see societal rights for all...but only for those who also realize that they have responsibilities to that very society that grants them such rights, and part of that responsibility is in contributing to society by more than just complaining about said society and saying, "See, we're doing good for society by 'keeping it honest'..."  I think that I and many feel that once you "cross" center to the left, there is the potential to expect more from and give less to your society.

G2G
 
Edward Campbell said:
Socialism and liberalism are diametrically opposed one to the other.

Socialism is all about the collective good.  It, like organized religion, is a highly conservative ideology.

Liberalism rests on the idea that each individual is sovereign – answerable only to himself (herself) for words, deed and results thereof.

Socialism and liberalism could not be farther apart.

The professional military has been, since classic Greece, a voluntary association of sovereign individuals who accept discipline and rigorous training and then make sacrifices to multiply their effectiveness in order to defend their communities and promote and protect the vital interests of their nations.

Large, conscript armies, the levee en masse, etc, are the tools of socialists.

Socialism does not find a happy home in a professional military force because it is antithetical to the idea of voluntary service and sacrifice.

We are Citizen Solders
citizens first. But willing to fight for the greater good.
I also like how you expland the Dif. betwen Socialism and liberalism.
a lot better then if I tried.
 
eurowing said:
A liberal or socialist is really just a conservative that has not been robbed yet. 


I've been robbed several times.....I usually vote liberal, (I might go blue next time around, I like how they used the budget surplus).  If the greens got there stuff together and had a real chance to make some waves I'd vote for them.

DSB
Granola bar eating, pinko, tree hugger
 
Wow, iv never really seen the right winged point of view.  The funny thing i find, is that you guys think some of the same things about left wingers, as we do about right wingers.  I'm starting to think this is just a way of drawing a line between people so that they have some excuse to argue as a group.  Dam politics...  :brickwall:
 
DSB said:
I've been robbed several times.....I usually vote liberal, (I might go blue next time around, I like how they used the budget surplus).  If the greens got there stuff together and had a real chance to make some waves I'd vote for them.

Yes, and you are the exception (in several contexts) that proves the rule.

You are a reserve medic in a leadership position with no deployments, a vegetarian, who is anti - Iraq war and living in a major centre.*

All of these make you nearly diametrically opposed to the mindset, experience and lifestyle of the vast majority of CF personnel. You are most definitely entitled to your beliefs, but IMHO, you are by no means typical or indicative of "most" CF pers.

*This is not a slam - I'm just making a point here.

 
Read into it what you wish, but i once had a high school teacher who said: "If your young and do not vote liberal, you have no heart, if you are older, and do not vote conservative, you have no head".

Otherwise I would just say that the armed forces are inherently conservative institutions in their nature, and if (not intended to be in a derogatory statement) someone with further left leaning views entering the service where they are forced to blend in with the individuals around them, don uniforms, and defend their flag, ideas may shift over time.

Also, to the more materialistic, it is generally the case that a conservative government will inject more money into the military, thus better gear, and a happier soldier under certain leadership.

Overall though, individuals in the armed forces are free to choose whichever political denomination they wish (save perhaps the communist party? feel free to correct, my political law knowledge is not the greatest at the moment), and perhaps the military appeals more to right wingers than left leaners.

Let's keep in mind though, our political spectrum in Canada is so very narrow that even the NDP and Conservative members alike could be members of the democrats in the United States...so we are not so different no matter our political allegiance.

my 2 cents worth...
 
I'm not sure that this whole pigeon hole "left wing/right wing" thing is all that helpful for understanding people. I have usually voted conservative but certainly have voted liberal and even once when I lived in BC I voted NDP provincially as the Socred candidate was an idiot and there really wasn't any other viable alternative.
I generally favour tradition and family values. I think that justice and honour are important. Does that make me a right winger? I also think the environment is an important issue that will have to be addressed politically in our immediate future...does that make me a left winger?
In the States that probably makes me a Democrat, which Americans would call a left winger.
It's just not all that helpful to pigeon hole people....it tends to make you believe that you understand how they think and it's much easier to write someone's opinions off.
 
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