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"Why no outcry from NGOs against IEDs?"

MarkOttawa

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Jack Granatstein asks a pointed question.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com//servlet/story/LAC.20070510.COMINES10/TPStory/Comment

Improvised explosive devices have killed hundreds [?] of NATO soldiers - including Canadians - in Afghanistan. They have also been used with devastating effect against American and coalition forces in Iraq. As IEDs are, for all practical purposes, anti-personnel land mines, banned by most countries since the Ottawa Convention of 1997, how is it that there has been no outcry from the non-governmental organizations that spearheaded the 1997 convention against their recent use?..

...IEDs, particularly victim-activated ones, can be exploded by anyone - a child, a pregnant women, a donkey or a soldier. They do not discriminate, and many of the 25,000 civilians killed worldwide each year by mine strikes are, in fact, killed by IEDs.

So where are the NGOs? It was the NGOs, notably the International Campaign to Ban Landmines, that mobilized public support for the Ottawa Convention. It was politicians such as Lloyd Axworthy, Canada's foreign affairs minister under Jean Chrétien, who used the pressure created by a very large coalition of NGOs to secure the ban on anti-personnel mines. This was a major achievement, one that has bound 155 nations not to employ, stockpile, produce or transfer land mines and, indeed, to destroy their stockpiles. When Pakistan suggested earlier this year that it might mine its border with Afghanistan to prevent (or slow) infiltration of Taliban insurgents into Afghanistan, there were quick protests from NGOs and from nations such as Canada. That these border measures could have taken some pressure off Canadian troops in Kandahar did not appear to matter - to the Department of Foreign Affairs, mines are worse than dead Canadians, or so it seemed. No one, however, is speaking out against the use of IEDs by terrorists in Afghanistan or Iraq...

IEDs are so similar to land mines in their use and effects that only those who split hairs can argue they ought not to be banned. The Taliban insurgents who have wreaked havoc in Kandahar province might not be embarrassed into stopping their use of IEDs if the NGOs took the field against them, but at least the NGOs could claim they were being consistent. The widespread sense that anti-American or anti-capitalist sentiments, rather than humanitarian motives, drive them today  [emphasis added] might be dispelled. That would be useful. And if, by chance, the Taliban felt obliged to follow their 1998 statements that land-mine use was against Islam, the effects might be profound in Afghanistan.

Will the NGOs at last speak out against IEDs?

I'm just breathless with anticipation.
 
Breakdown the acronym and think about the individual words - Improvised - Explosive - Device. It's a term that describes a weapon which is impromptu and hastily assembled, following no discernible convention of design. They're hardly manufactured as they are rigged together by someone with basic pyrotechnic knowledge. When they are made in numbers, they're hardly produced on the scale that land mines are. Without economies of scale and highly developed division of labour, an IED 'factory' would have trouble producing any significant output. Additionally, IEDs are employed with the short-term in mind.  An insurgent would set up an IED with the hopes of hitting a patrol very soon thereafter. Most IED designs require a trigger-man. Contrarily, land mines are defensive in nature. They are placed in the ground with the understanding that they will remain there for very long periods of time-- and, as backwards as it sounds, are indiscriminate in their targets.

Who would an NGO lobby to 'ban' IEDs? They are employed solely by non-state actors who rightly pay no heed to international rules of war.
 
+1 I don't see the point of the article, you can't ban IED's, sure you can take a stance against them, but it's not as if countries are mass producing as Kells mentioned above. It would be nice for NGO's to speak out against them, but words and action are two different things.
 
While part of me things we'll be waiting a while for this kind of condemnation, I'm not totally without hope.

After all, even Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch finally called a spade a spade when it comes to the Taliban's lack o' rules of engagement.

The question becomes:  What's it going to take to get NGO's to become willing to criticize the bad guys?  How many aid workers will have to die?
 
Plus what difference would banning them really make one way or the other?

Taliban: "These are banned now?! crap... STOP BUILDING THAT! Do you wanna get us in trouble?"  ::)
 
Exactly Mun, anyone with a half a brain (myself included ;) ) can figure out the EN doesn't play by conventional rules.
 
Munxcub said:
Plus what difference would banning them really make one way or the other?

Taliban: "These are banned now?! crap... STOP BUILDING THAT! Do you wanna get us in trouble?"  ::)

True, but I've set the bar really, really low here - I just want to hear more members of the NGO and broader "social justice" community holding the bad guys (no matter where they are) as painstakingly accountable, in the same level of detail, as the good guys.  Scrutiny, love it or hate it, is part of transparency in a democracy, but I'd like to see "what's good for the goose is good for the gander" when it comes to what the other side does.  

Amnesty and HRW, for all their faults, have done so - which agency purporting to help people in need will be next up at bat bashing the bad guys?
 
Perhaps another point in the originally refernced quote needed to be emphasized:

IEDs are so similar to land mines in their use and effects that only those who split hairs can argue they ought not to be banned. The Taliban insurgents who have wreaked havoc in Kandahar province might not be embarrassed into stopping their use of IEDs if the NGOs took the field against them, but at least the NGOs could claim they were being consistent. The widespread sense that anti-American or anti-capitalist sentiments, rather than humanitarian motives, drive them today  [emphasis added] might be dispelled. That would be useful. And if, by chance, the Taliban felt obliged to follow their 1998 statements that land-mine use was against Islam, the effects might be profound in Afghanistan.

It is not the organized manufancture of IEDs that needs to be brought under scrutiny, it is the Taliban stand against landmines as expressed in 1998 that is at odds with its current use of weapons (IEDs) with similar effects.

http://www.afghan-network.net/Landmines/landmines_news.html

In order to mobilize Afghans to be directly involved in the campaign against landmines and to attract attention of the international community and media to the problem of landmines in Afghanistan, the ACBL successfully observed the Afghan Mine Action and Awareness Month (AMAAM) in 1996, 1997 and 1998. During this period, ACBL successfully carried out a wide range of activities in Kabul, Nangarhar, Ghazni, Paktika, Paktia, Kandahar and Herat provinces in Afghanistan as well as in Pakistan. In 1998, a two-bus caravan of mine victims traveled from Jalalabad, and passing through many small and large towns, it reached Kandahar. One of the major achievements of ACBL in 1998 was the anti-landmine statement given by the Supreme Leader of Taliban government in Afghanistan, Mulla Mohammed Omar Mujahid.
 
So what everybody is dancing around is that the NGO's are hypocrites..... :o
 
GAP: +
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dd/Infinity_symbol.svg

Mark
Ottawa
 
Why can't you "ban" IEDs?  You can ban modifying a bayonet to inflict "unnecessary" harm.  You can ban modifying a bullet to increase its wound potential.  You can punish those people that don't wear uniforms, or conduct torture or any of a multitude of other acts, in or out of uniform.  And the Taliban are liable for prosecution for most of those crimes if they are ever caught.

As Jack said the issue is one of consistency and maintaining neutrality - but neutral is NOT what many of these NON Governmental Organizations are.  They are ANTI - Government (at least the Western Governments which allow them to flourish).
 
My own personal opinion is that by and large, NGOs are racist.  Not overtly so, I suppose they leave that to the skinheads.  The problem is that they don't even realise that they are racist.  Allow me to illustrate my thinking on this:
"They" (NGOs) are quite critical of Western (read: white) nations when they act in any manner involving violence, whether focused or not.  That's fine.  "They" however aren't so critical of non-western (read: non-white) nations when they act in any manner involving violence, whether focused or not.  That's NOT fine.  I suspect that they (NGOs) feel not that the non-whites don't know any better, but rather they cannot do any better.  Think about it. They rarely bat an eye when US Citizens are hung up on display in Somalia or Iraq, but if an American points at the genitals of a naked Iraqi, they (rightly) complain/raise a stink.  Why do they excuse the behavior of the non-western peoples so?  I believe (and again, just my opinion), that many (certainly not all) NGOs are racist.  Again, the real problem is that they don't even know it.
 
+ 1 Oh, they know alright, the actions and/or lack of actions are by choice.
 
Captain Sensible said:
... I believe (and again, just my opinion), that many (certainly not all) NGOs are racist.  Again, the real problem is that they don't even know it.

+1 likewise. Racist in effect if not always in intent.
 
Captain Sensible said:
I suspect that they (NGOs) feel not that the non-whites don't know any better, but rather they cannot do any better.

Would sure explain a lot (and of socialists in general).
 
Captain Sensible said:
My own personal opinion is that by and large, NGOs are racist.  Not overtly so, I suppose they leave that to the skinheads.  The problem is that they don't even realise that they are racist.  Allow me to illustrate my thinking on this:
"They" (NGOs) are quite critical of Western (read: white) nations when they act in any manner involving violence, whether focused or not.  That's fine.  "They" however aren't so critical of non-western (read: non-white) nations when they act in any manner involving violence, whether focused or not.  That's NOT fine.  I suspect that they (NGOs) feel not that the non-whites don't know any better, but rather they cannot do any better.  Think about it. They rarely bat an eye when US Citizens are hung up on display in Somalia or Iraq, but if an American points at the genitals of a naked Iraqi, they (rightly) complain/raise a stink.  Why do they excuse the behavior of the non-western peoples so?  I believe (and again, just my opinion), that many (certainly not all) NGOs are racist.  Again, the real problem is that they don't even know it.

NGO stands for non-governmental organization. That term encompasses any organization that is separate from the government, international or otherwise. Some concern themselves with human rights, some concern themselves with international standards. Think of the International Standards Organization (ISO).

I think you're confusing the actions of NGOs with self-centred journalists.
 
Captain Sensible said:
NOT fine.  I suspect that they (NGOs) feel not that the non-whites don't know any better, but rather they cannot do any better. 

Or, a less evil explanation:  we must do it their way, even if the "white way" may be more efficient in our eye -- better they do it half-assed themselves and learn, than us doing it for them and leaving.  In general, there's merit in doing it the local way to get buy in and better chances of long-term sustainability, but I'm not looking to make this a "they do it slow" vs. "we do it quick and go" debate.  I'll leave it paraphrased as GAP so aptly put it:  Some NGO's are hypocritical when they criticize western democracies for the way we do things (fair ball) when they don't even come close to holding the enemy to anywhere near the same standards (not fair ball).

BKells said:
I think you're confusing the actions of NGOs with self-centred journalists.

Journalists have agendas, but so do some organizations...
 
BKells said:
NGO stands for non-governmental organization. That term encompasses any organization that is separate from the government, international or otherwise. Some concern themselves with human rights, some concern themselves with international standards. Think of the International Standards Organization (ISO).

I think you're confusing the actions of NGOs with self-centred journalists.

I think you are assuming that NGOs are just too stupid to realize that IED is really just another name for a jury-rigged command-detonated land mine.  Maybe we should start a campaign to call a spade a spade: not IED, but CDILM (Command-Detonated Improvised Land Mine).

<< EDIT >>

Come to think of it, many of them aren't even command-detonated: maybe it should just be ILM!
 
Given the nature of the weapon, you can't ban IED's. However, the lack of codemnation of their use, by NGO's, give credence and acceptance to their use. IF the world body came out against the use of these devices, like they did landmines, the continued use by rogue organisations would become suspect and come under increased condemnation. The more condemnation they come under, the less credence their organisation holds. Ergo, by the fact that the NGO's refuse to condemn the use of IED's, they substantiate their use. Extrapolated, NGO's support terrorists.
 
Actually - EFP's and IED's are predominately fairly sophisticated and are manufactured in many ways.
1) Certain countries manufactuer advance triggering mechanisms
2) Certain countries send technicians into Iraq and Afghanistan (as well as do lecturing in camps in 3rd locations) on how to build and employ advanced IED's and EFP's
3) Insurgent Groups have numerous sites devoted to building IED's and EFP's

This is a cottage industry -- its not just farmer bob out sinking a 152mm shell into the ground and Inshaalla.
 
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