Will the C17s Make it to the Ramp?

[Globesmasher]

Could you elaborate on what quarterly basic flight training consists of? Is sim time loggable? Just trying to get an idea of how many hours will be spent in the sims as compared to actual seat time..

We envision the guys spending one session per quarter in the simulator.  Each session lasts 3 hours, one session per day for two consecutive days for a total of 6 hours per quarter.  They may log more.  Sim time is sim time ... the last column in the log book.  Many of the items performed in the sim will count towards quarterly currency requirements.

We expect guys to be logging in the realm of 400 hrs/year in the seat engaged in actual Force Employment missions.  About 20% of that will be currency requirement training.

We won't be doing basic touch and goes and flying ILS approaches in the Trenton traffic pattern with this aircraft - that can be done in a very good, high level sim.  The "currency training" in the actual seat will be totally engaged in Tactical Proficiency training ... tactical arrivals, departures, assault landings and NVG flights - the sort of thing that actually can't be accomplished very well in the sim.

 

[Astrodog]

Thanks again for the reply

We expect guys to be logging in the realm of 400 hrs/year in the seat engaged in actual Force Employment missions.  About 20% of that will be currency requirement training.

  Now I'm just drooling! 
edit: hehe had to remove the kiss emoticon which, in my defense, thought was licking lips!

 

[aesop081]

Hey...i got 587 hours last year !!!

Globemasher,

With only having 4 aircraft in the fleet, how many aircraft can we expect to have available on any given day when taking into account periodic inspections and the likes ?

What has been the USAF experience with snags for the C-17 ?

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Their final order will put their fleet at 180 in total.  USAF AMC wanted 220 in their original order, but Congress reduced the order (yes, they too are under going cutbacks and reductions) to 180.

This may be slightly off-topic, but I seem to remember that Boeing had at one time entertained the idea of producing a civilian version of the C-17. Since I have not heard anything recently about this and I'm assuming that it has died a quiet death. Personally, I would think it would be a good idea, after all those An-124s could use a little competition. 

 

[Astrodog]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-17_Globemaster_III#Commercial_operators

In the mid-1990s, McDonnell Douglas began to market the C-17 to commercial civilian operators, under the name MD-17.[1]. Due to its high projected fuel, maintanence and depreciation cost for a low-cycle military design in commercial service, as well as a limited market dominated by the An-124 and A300-600ST, very little interest was expressed. After McDonnell Douglas merged with Boeing, the program was renamed BC-17.[2] However, the aircraft has had no takers.

 

[Rigger]

I wonder where Boeing is going to find there work force for the 2nd line maintenance. Does anybody know where you can get a group of experienced aircraft technicians in the Trenton area? I hope that the techs coming back from the States, don't jump ship and go to work for Boeing. 

 

[observor 69]

Rigger, if the techs are trained the American way, not to worry.  It will only be servicing level duties as their idea of first level maint is quite different from ours.  The most complex job might be a tire change. So indepth knowledge needed would be minimal.   I hope I am wrong though.

Which got me to wondering?? What happens if the aircraft sitting on the ramp at Trenton goes down for a broken engine? How about if it has a broken engine in Thunder Bay, etc? In other words, how are we going to handle major snags repair, radar, radio, electrical etc?

 

[tomahawk6]

Not to take things off topic I have been a big fan of Boeings Pelican.

http://foxxaero.homestead.com/indrad_043.html

 

[eurowing]

Which got me to wondering?? What happens if the aircraft sitting on the ramp at Trenton goes down for a broken engine? How about if it has a broken engine in Thunder Bay, etc? In other words, how are we going to handle major snags repair, radar, radio, electrical etc?

That is the $55 question.  It all boils down to "what is considered 1st line maint?"  
I am very curious as to how this will play out.  An engine change is usually considered a 1st line job by us, but will it be with the CC-177?

I don't believe the 2nd line will be huge issue.  We do less and less second line now anyway.  We send most parts away because of lack of manpower and erosion of expertise from the trade amalgamation.  So an engine change might be a fly in team from Boeing and we probably won't do off ac repair on the engine either.

No CFTO's?  Not bilingual?  I willing to bet there won't be a francophone TO for quite some time.

Will the CC-177 get a pass from the P series? Can't see that given the monumental efforts to make it work.  

Will the AF9K cell in the new unit be busy... you betcha!

Anyhow, those are rambling thoughts and again... watch, wait and see.

A point here I should make.  My experience with USAF was 4 years ago and it was while attached to the NATO AWACS over a 4 year period.  What I experienced was not the most current USAF practices and my USAF friends said that they were trained better on their own ac, but not to the levels we were on our Canadian ac.  

Tomahawk.... now that is cool!

 

[vonGarvin]

T-6: that looks like something right out of Captain Scarlet or UFO!  Awesome
Here's a trivial question: what will we call our CC-177?  Keep in mind that the "Orion" became the "Aurora", so if other than GLOBEMASTER, what could we call it?  The HILLIER?  The BIG HONKING PLANE?  STEVE?

 

[aesop081]

T-6: that looks like something right out of Captain Scarlet or UFO!  Awesome
Here's a trivial question: what will we call our CC-177?  Keep in mind that the "Orion" became the "Aurora", so if other than GLOBEMASTER, what could we call it?  The HILLIER?  The BIG HONKING PLANE?  STEVE?

Thats Because the Orion and Aurora are 2 very different aircraft.

CC-177 name....humm.....yeah that could be interesting

 

[geo]

My vote is for "STEVE"

 

[Good2Golf]

Which got me to wondering?? What happens if the aircraft sitting on the ramp at Trenton goes down for a broken engine? How about if it has a broken engine in Thunder Bay, etc? In other words, how are we going to handle major snags repair, radar, radio, electrical etc?

MRP, as with any other CF aircraft breaking down away from home base.

G2G

 

[aesop081]

MRP, as with any other CF aircraft breaking down away from home base.

G2G

I love those.....perticularly when they involve the phrase " theres an Aurora broken in Hawaii, wanna go on the MRP ?"

 

[observor 69]

MRP, as with any other CF aircraft breaking down away from home base.

G2G

Ya but ......that's the point of my question, our MRP or Boeing's?  As was mentioned what will be 2nd line and what's 1st ?

 

[Globesmasher]

Here's a trivial question: what will we call our CC-177?  Keep in mind that the "Orion" became the "Aurora", so if other than GLOBEMASTER, what could we call it?  The HILLIER?  The BIG HONKING PLANE?  STEVE?

Nomenclature comes from CAS and DAR.

It will be the:

CC-177
Globemaster lll (No French quivalent)
Tail numbers are 701, 702, 703 and 704.

 

[Astrodog]

My vote is for "STEVE"

CC-177 Steve.. that has me in stitches for some reason!  ;D

 

[geo]

CC-177
Globemaster lll (No French quivalent)

....."mais oui"  ,  Globemaster will be said in an outrageously french accent

 

[observor 69]

I thought this was cute!  
http://www.defence.gov.au/news/raafnews/editions/4823/topstories/story01.htm

The master has arrived
Christmas comes early for Air Force with the arrival of first Globemaster

Volume 48, No. 23, December 14, 2006



IT'S THIS BIG: 36SQN co-pilot FLTLT Scott Hyland welcomes the new C-17 to RAAF Base Amberley with open arms.
Photo by WO Steve Dent

 

36SQN CO WGCDR Linda Corbould carries the big cermeonial commissioning key from the C-17 at the arrival ceremony in Canberra.
Photo by WO Steve Dent

 

BIG NEWS: AIRCDRE Glen Steed talks to local media after the arrival of the C-17 at RAAF Base Amberley.
Photo by AC Aaron Curran
By SQNLDR Phil Smith

UNTIL now, Air Force hasn’t had an aircraft to make the C-130 Hercules look small, but its first C-17 Globemaster III did just that as it sat beside its Air Lift partner on the hard stand at Fairbairn.

Two official welcomes awaited the 36SQN crew delivering the first of their four new heavy lifters after its Trans-Pacific flight on December 4.

In Canberra, the aircraft was welcomed by a galaxy of VIPs, including Prime Minister John Howard, Defence Minister Brendan Nelson, CDF ACM Angus Houston and CAF AIRMSHL Geoff Shepherd. CO 36SQN, WGCDR Linda Corbould gave them a close look at the Globemaster with a low pass before stopping in front of them.

Carrying the huge ceremonial commissioning key, WGCDR Corbould and her crew were welcomed home.

The aircraft has been delivered within an extraordinary ten months of the government ordering them. CAF thanked everyone in Australia, the US and UK who made that possible.

 

[tomahawk6]

Too bad I would have favored "The Big Dipper". ;D