Would Mandatory National Service make the CF stronger?

[monika]

Good point. Someone would definitely have to supervise these kids, not because they're inherently lazy, but because they'll be young and foolish as long as they can get away with it!

 

[Forgotten_Hero]

Well, I've been toying with the idea of what our country would be like if everyone had to be military trained. I figured that perhaps it would put an end to some of the stereotypes and ignorant opinions we see among the public. Perhaps mandatory military service isnt the way to go... but rather mandatory military training? Just train them and then put them on an inactive reserve list like we do with people who quit the military?

 

[MountainRunner]

Switzerland presents an interesting case.

"For a small country, the only way to raise a sizable army is to put every able-bodied man under arms. This is how Switzerland managed to stay independent despite repeated attacks throughout history."  http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Conscription

"Switzerland has the largest militia army in the world (220,000 including reserves). Military service for Swiss men is obligatory according to the Federal Constitution, and includes 17 weeks of basic training as well as annual 3-week-refresher courses..."
http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Conscription

 

[FastEddy]

An armed forces manned by unwilling conscripts is bad enough, but imagine what garbage collection, hospital cleaning, crop harvesting  or tree planting would be like with unwilling "labour battalions". A private detective was hired to follow a Montreal city works crew picked at random, in an approx 3 day period they drove around, drank coffee and filled three potholes. (and these were "volunteers", not conscripts)

Now multiply by 10,000........

Yes admittedly, there would be a certain number of unsuited or undesirable elements gathered up. But if "Paris Island" can take the same Groups (not just because they volunteered) and turn them into Marines or at least after their enlistment better citizens and individuals. Why not us ?. What I've seen of the youth of today, it sounds like just the answer. If Civie Street can't handle them, then the Army's just the place.

Using the Montreal Blue Collar Workers as a example, You didn't bring up their UNION factor. For Christ sake they could shoot the Mayor and still not get fired or disciplined. Tremblay didn't need a PI to figure that one out.

 

[bbbb]

Conscription serves no useful purpose. If the country is about to enter a major war than I would say to use bigger recruiting targets to increase the size of the volunteer army. For example they could do what our minister of defence wants to do, if it works then the military will get bigger, if not oh well you'll still get people joining for the money, and its certainly a lot of money nowadays.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Ummm hello people are not joining now, setting bigger targets won't get any more people in. *sigh*

 

[mainerjohnthomas]

You want numbers in the CF?  Scr#w conscription, try incentives.  Offer up a years paid tuition for every two years service (with honourable discharge) at eligible trade schools, colleges and universities and you will get people who are willing to work hard to build a future.  Do you want the smart and ambitious people who are willing to trade hard work for future opportunities, or conscripts who think that they are doing us a favour just dressing in CADPAT, and who stand on their rights not to give a shite or work up a sweat?  It is an ancient military maxim that numbers alone offer no advantage. In todays armies, having unmotivated, untrainable, undeployable numbers just gives you a good way to drain away our opporating budget while leaving the same small number of useful troops deployed at the end of an even more burdened supply chain.

 

[bbbb]

People are not joining now? Odd, RMC is quite popular with the high school people I would think. Don't quote me on that.

However I do not know many people who like being hit on the head with an old bayonet during drill.

 

[MikeL]

RMC an the CF is not popular for people in High School, atleast not with anyone at my high school. Out of my grad class, only two people joined the CF, myself an my brother.

Not a lot of teens in school are interested in the Military, since alot of them are missinformed an buy into the "it's cool to be anti-military trend".

Like mainerjohnthomas said, you need too make the CF more appealing, look at the US Army, they have a lot of incentives, get different schools in your contract, a lot of different signing bonus, etc.


Also having recruiters set up displays in malls, or coming out too schools to inform people about the CF an what it offers, etc would be good.

 

[kincanucks]

Well with over 1200 ROTP applications for this year with the vast majority of those applying to RMC it must be popular somewhere.

 

[MikeL]

I know there are a lot of applications across the country, but that 1200 is out of how many high school grads across the country though?

 

[a_majoor]

You want numbers in the CF?  Scr#w conscription, try incentives.  Offer up a years paid tuition for every two years service (with honourable discharge) at eligible trade schools, colleges and universities and you will get people who are willing to work hard to build a future.  Do you want the smart and ambitious people who are willing to trade hard work for future opportunities, or conscripts who think that they are doing us a favour just dressing in CADPAT, and who stand on their rights not to give a shite or work up a sweat?  It is an ancient military maxim that numbers alone offer no advantage. In todays armies, having unmotivated, untrainable, undeployable numbers just gives you a good way to drain away our opporating budget while leaving the same small number of useful troops deployed at the end of an even more burdened supply chain.

If the desired result of these discussions is to creat a new generation of fit. well diciplined and motivated Canadian citizens, then this is indeed the answer: incentives and rewards for service. Since the military neither needs or is prepared to accept vast hordes of applicants, extending this program across the board for all kinds of service makes a great deal of sense (after all, I'll bet there are lots of good people out there who have no interest in the military but really do have a desire to serve their country and their fellows in some meaningful way). The rewards could be on a sliding scale, the really hard core citizens who are willing to take on the most difficult tasks get the "best" rewards, those willing to serve but in lesser capacities can get (say) one year tuition for every three years service or something similar.

MJT, call Mr Harper. He will need more MPs with good ideas when the next election rolls around!

 

[monika]

Also having recruiters set up displays in malls, or coming out too schools to inform people about the CF an what it offers, etc would be good.

Definitely. I remember having reps from all the colleges and universities visit my high school, but no one from the Forces ever showed up.

 

[GO!!!]

Well with over 1200 ROTP applications for this year with the vast majority of those applying to RMC it must be popular somewhere.

From a nation of 33 Million, of whom 223 thousand reach military age annually, and eight million are eligible (in theory) to apply from the total population.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ca.html

That means that, by these numbers, one out of about every 222 students applies, or  less than half of one percent.

I would say that no, RMC is not very popular.

 

[kincanucks]

When we consistently have 5 applicants applying for each position that is available in RMC every year then it is popular.

 

[geo]

Still boils down to .... what are you going to do with all those "troops" and
How you plan to pay for em.

At present, we hardly have two nickles to rub together and you're talking about drafting all these able bodied and potentialy unwilling warm bodies.

Check please!
(Reality)check that is

 

[FastEddy]

Still boils down to .... what are you going to do with all those "troops" and
How you plan to pay for em.

At present, we hardly have two nickles to rub together and you're talking about drafting all these able bodied and potentialy unwilling warm bodies.

Check please!
(Reality)check that is

So far that is the best question/argument whether you are for or against.

 

[armyvern]

I voted NO. Just look at some of the riff-raff we've already got in our voluntary Force. I can only see bad things happening with the "unvoluntary riff-raff" that conscription would encompass. No thanks. That'd be the day my release gets put on the Boss' desk. We've already got enough people who shouldn't be serving bantying around wasting oxygen.

 

[FastEddy]

I voted NO. Just look at some of the riff-raff we've already got in our voluntary Force. I can only see bad things happening with the "unvoluntary riff-raff" that conscription would encompass. No thanks. That'd be the day my release gets put on the Boss' desk. We've already got enough people who shouldn't be serving bantying around wasting oxygen.

I would like to hear your thoughts on why we have (some) riff-raff in the CF's today. I would have thought that it would be the responsibility of NCO's and especially Sr. NCO's to sort them out.

Given the  vast number of inductees, I would presume that there would be far more suitable candidates than riff-raff. Unless your under the impression that anyone who didn't volunteer for the CF's may not be a viable candidate and retentionable.

Cheers.

 

[armyvern]

I would like to hear your thoughts on why we have (some) riff-raff in the CF's today. I would have thought that it would be the responsibility of NCO's and especially Sr. NCO's to sort them out.

Perhaps if we could roll back the recruting process to the times of 12-15 years ago (before your time) to the standards that used to exists prior to ""my individual rights," big hug fests et al. Back to those days when Snr NCOs could actually enforce discipline without all the crap that goes with it. Ie defending themselves against harassment charges because they told someone who, if 2 inches shorter would resemble a circle, to get off their ass, get to PT and get in shape..."but the Sgt yelled at me...innapropriately and I feel harrassed. Perhaps an HA is required or even I might settle for some Alternate Dispute Resolution...." Too bad. The Snr NCO did their job and still has a job to do. Time to build a bridge and get over it and on with it and quit the whining.

Back to the days when recruits who could not make the grade, either never made it past the door of the recruiting centre or were actually released during the Basic or their 3's at the latest. Not just passed up through the system for us Snr NCOs outside of the Training system to look after.  Or remustered off to another trade...etc etc.

Individual rights in the Military setting...that's where it all began in my books.

Conscription? I'd rather have someone next to me who wants to be there and who can do the job.

But we have to grow our numbers? Funny thing is, the way I remember it from back in those Cornwallis days? We never had any shortages of personnel who wanted to join and serve. Cornwallis was wall to wall recruits undergoing much more vigorous trg than todays BMQ and we had no individual rights. But guess what? We actually had discipline!! Maybe that's why much higher mental/physical stress courses ran constantly with no shortage of volunteers who got sworn at, yelled at, spit on etc ad naseum but managed to have the best time of their lives? Imagine that? Actual discipline in the Military and it's training. What an original idea.