Would Mandatory National Service make the CF stronger?

[darmil]

Armymedic has it right.Add incentives like the US Army's GI bill where service entitles you to an education with benefits and funding.Thats the only way to get the recruits Canada so desperately needs.Force conscription only if we get attacked. Watch and shoot! :bullet:

 

[Infanteer]

After having had the opportunity to visit Germany this past summer and deal with a good number of conscripted soldiers my age, I do not see much difference in their attitude or demeanor to the people of Canada.

Try working with them on operations - dig through and find Kevin B's experience with the Euro-rentals....

Anyways, we go through this topic every 6 months - I think it is safe to say that I would rather be in a trench with somebody who wanted to be there.  Let's not be too hasty to denigrate conscript armies though - while we pride our WWI and II forces composed of volunteers, remember that the Americans, Brits, Russians and Germans accomplished lots with armies of conscripts.

 

[highlandranger]

Thank you for your input. Now return to your duties soldier.

edited to better reflect question of the poll.
-HF

 

[Pikache]

heavens no.

conscript army is a bane to a professional army unless you're looking for cannon fodders

 

[kincanucks]

manditory or mandatory?

Actually I have always thought that every screened and eligible Canadian from 18-21 should serve in the military and then carry on with post-secondary education after that.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Actually I have always thought that every Canadian from 18-21 should serve in the military and then carry on with post-secondary education after that.

Canadian citizens? Landed immigrants?

I can think of a certian population of 'Canadians' I'd rather not work with. Rhymes with kadar 

All kidding aside I used to think this was a great idea.  Have people serve a few years in some aspect, maybe trade service for an education afterwards.  Don't have much confidence in the idea anymore though.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

The poll is incomplete. There should be a response

Yes, for National Service (not necessarily military).

Then you still only have people who want to serve in the military, but everyone is doing something (even if it is "only" planting trees, picking garbage, or whatever).

 

[dapaterson]

Do I sense a Starship Troopers thread about to begin?

 

[geo]

Hmmm.... just when all countries are phasing out conscription - you want to bring it in?

Ask any professional in the US military about how safe they felt around draftees during Vietnam.... you won't get a very favorable response.

You have to ask yourself... what are you trying to accomplish?... add numbers (most of which are unwilling)?

In the UK, they get volunteers out of the Courts....
The judge gives them a choice.... 3 yrs in Jail or a 3 year stint in the army...
at least they're volunteers (sort of)

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Ask any professional in the US military about how safe they felt around draftees during Vietnam.... you won't get a very favorable response.

Luckily the majority of US soldiers in Vietnam were volunteers...about 67 percent.

Ironically, about 67 percent of the same US Army that played a major role in winning the Second World War were draftees.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Luckily the majority of US soldiers in Vietnam were volunteers...about 67 percent.

Doesn't that seem scary?
33% of the soldiers in Vietnam were civilians who were ordered to go fight in a war they had no intention of fighting?
Now most of us on this board are soldiers who volunteered for service. It's easy for us to think big deal and take the patriotic stand point.  When your country is at war you should go fight.

Putting myself in an American civilians shoes that would freak me out. I think about the Canadian government  (say the liberals because I never voted for them) ordering me to put my life at risk for something they started. Fuck that.

WW2 was a pretty clear cut case of kill or be killed, us vs them.  Lines aren't so clear anymore.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Doesn't that seem scary?
33% of the soldiers in Vietnam were civilians who were ordered to go fight in a war they had no intention of fighting?
Now most of us on this board are soldiers who volunteered for service. It's easy for us to think big deal and take the patriotic stand point.  When your country is at war you should go fight.

Putting myself in an American civilians shoes that would freak me out. I think about the Canadian government  (say the liberals because I never voted for them) ordering me to put my life at risk for something they started. Fuck that.

WW2 was a pretty clear cut case of kill or be killed, us vs them.  Lines aren't so clear anymore.

It's possible some of those draftees in Vietnam thought they should be there, just as some of the volunteers no doubt opposed the war. I am sure most draftees in the Canadian Army in 1944 thought the war against Germany was a just war - a common opinion among them was that if the Government wasn't going to have the balls to send them into combat, why should they volunteer?

Many in the US considered the war against Germany and Italy as a European civil war and did not want to send troops there, until Germany declared war in Dec 1941.  Certainly Roosevelt was chomping at the bit to get into things to help the British, to his credit, and the USN was practically in a state of war from 1940 on (not to mention the draft for all three services came into being in the US in 1940 or early 1941 also).

 

[MountainRunner]

Actually I have always thought that every screened and eligible Canadian from 18-21 should serve in the military and then carry on with post-secondary education after that.

Agreed, but I think 2 years full-time is enough.
I also think "conscientious objectors" should have to provide some form of community service in lieu of military service.

 

[monika]

I'm all in favour of national service provided there's a non-military option. Maybe I'm getting old but I think being forced to work between high school and post secondary would be worth just as much if not more than jumping right into school.

I know that the work I do now I couldn't imagine myself doing when I was 18 and fresh out of high school. It could be Canada's answer to the "gap year."

 

[geo]

I think about the Canadian government  (say the liberals because I never voted for them) ordering me to put my life at risk for something they started. frig that.

WTF are you talking about?

 

[goldorak]

I'm in favor of military service. I don't know for anywere else in Canada, but here in Montreal, people are more and more .... savages? So maybe it is a good thing to put back some youg people in the tracks. I've past all my teens years in cadets until a had the age to go as cic officer and i will tell you that in i wasn't fot cadets... i don't know were i'll be at this moment...!!!

 

[Jarnhamar]

I think about the Canadian government  (say the liberals because I never voted for them) ordering me to put my life at risk for something they started. frig that.

WTF are you talking about?

Just an example. (obviously a made up one) 
I can't imagine being forced to fight in a war to support a government I don't support. ie how some draftee's probably felt during vietnam.

 

[geo]

made up examples are fine....
to ensure you leave partisanship out of it.... leave ALL political parties out of it.

 

[QV]

I would laugh my a$$ off if they started conscription.  I'm all for 2 years of mandatory national service of some kind. 

 

[a_majoor]

An armed forces manned by unwilling conscripts is bad enough, but imagine what garbage collection, hospital cleaning, crop harvesting  or tree planting would be like with unwilling "labour battalions". A private detective was hired to follow a Montreal city works crew picked at random, in an approx 3 day period they drove around, drank coffee and filled three potholes. (and these were "volunteers", not conscripts)

Now multiply by 10,000........