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WW I trench warfare guns found in Manitoba shed

Nfld Sapper

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WW I trench warfare guns found in Manitoba shed
Thursday, April 17, 2008
Project Number:08-219

08-0219_RCAmuseum_oldguns_M.jpg

Two MG 08´s on a pallet at a Public Works Canada warehouse prepared for pick-up by staff of the Royal Canadian Artillery Museum in Shilo.

ST. ANDREWS, Manitoba – After collecting dust in the back of a Public Works storage shed for decades, three forgotten World War I weapons were recently rediscovered and donated to the Royal Canadian Artillery (RCA) Museum in Shilo, Manitoba.

Staff at the Public Works site thought the weapons were Canadian. But museum staff immediately recognized them as being German, two MG-08 machine guns, and a 24-centimetre Flugel-Minen Werfer (mortar). The weapons are in remarkably good condition but missing many of the parts that would allow them to function.


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A 24 centimetre Flugel-Minen Werfer (mortar) sits on the forks of a wheel loader as it is prepared for shipping to CFB Shilo.

"Canadian soldiers fought and died capturing these," said Marc George, Director of the RCA Museum. "They´ve been sitting in obscurity for years … and it´s good to have them back."

"This is a cool moment. This mortar was captured by Canadian troops 90 years ago and it´s just now returning into the hands of the Canadian Army," said Mr. George. "It´s very rare, I would be surprised if there was another one in Canada. There were never many made and only a handful left that we know of," he said, excited by the find.

There were probably fewer than 200 of the mortars manufactured, but they had a devastating effect on the battlefield. Deployed at the frontlines and used extensively to destroy trench lines in preparation for assaults, each mortar had a crew of 42 men. Each round weighed 100 kilograms and had a maximum range of 1300 metres. On impact, the round would create craters 6 metres wide and 3 metres deep.


08-0219_RCAmuseum_oldguns_2.jpg

A stamping on the side of an MG 08 indicates that it was manufactured in Germany at the Spandau Gun Factory in 1916.

Accounts from soldiers of the day described the bomb as easy to see in flight. Sentries would watch for incoming rounds. If the launch was spotted, they could track the bomb and alert soldiers in the target area to take cover, with as much as a minute to clear the area before impact.

How the weapons ended up in a storage shed near the St Andrews Lock and Dam, on the Red River about 20 kilometres north of Winnipeg, may never be known. An area supervisor, seeing them wasting away, suggested they belonged in a museum. Shortly afterwards, an on-site manager watched a war documentary featuring the RCA Museum in Shilo; he found the program very interesting and saw a solution to the weapons issue. A phone call was all it took to arrange a new home for the weapons. 

"We really don´t know why the guns were here, they just were," said Brent Murray, Superintendent of Marine Facilities at the St Andrews Lock and Dam. "When I first started here years ago there were old stories that the guns were mounted on the bridge, but no one is really sure about that."

"We´re going to miss these guns," he added, "but we really thought they should be in the proper place, like a museum."

Article and photos by Sgt Dennis Power, Army News, Shilo
 
NFLD Sapper said:
"Canadian soldiers fought and died capturing these," said Marc George, Director of the RCA Museum. "They´ve been sitting in obscurity for years … and it´s good to have them back."

"We really don´t know why the guns were here, they just were," said Brent Murray, Superintendent of Marine Facilities at the St Andrews Lock and Dam. "When I first started here years ago there were old stories that the guns were mounted on the bridge, but no one is really sure about that."

I'm puzzled about how to reconcile this two parts. If nothing is know, how come they can be sure that these were fought for ?

Nice discoveries, none the less ...
 
Yrys said:
I'm puzzled about how to reconcile this two parts. If nothing is know, how come they can be sure that these were fought for ?

Nice discoveries, none the less ...

I don't think the authors intentions were to infer that these weapons were specificly "fought" for and obtained after a "win".

Rather, Canada went to war and "fought" the Germans. These weapons were German weapons used against Canadians in that "fight" (War). The Germans could very well have abondoned those weapons -- and Canadians stumbeled accross them. They are still considered "captured" (ie in our posession means they aren't in their posession). Somehow, they made their way here to Canada afterwards ... somehow. So, we need to get them in a museum.
 
Thanks, a bit of a light bulb moment, reading your post :).
 
What a find!  This story is fantastic.  It's amazing what people have sitting around.  The Halifax reconstruction project at Trenton has a piece of the fuselage that was being used as a chicken coop in England.
 
I apologize for the slight hijack. The Canadian Corps used a comparable weapon, the 9.45-inch trench mortar. (9.45-inches is roughly 24 cm.) Details may be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9.45_inch_Heavy_Mortar

I know it is wikipedia but the entry is sourced and looks legitimate. According to Appendix B of Vol I of The Gunners of Canada each of the five Canadian divisional artilleries included a battery of four 9.45-inch trench mortars. (When the 5th Canadian Division was broken up in the UK, the divisional artillery was moved to France as corps troops.)
 
These are very likely War trophies - the Public Works staff lack of knowledge on the source is understandable.

If anyone can get me serial numbers I may be able to trace them via the National Archives in Ottawa which has the register of all war trophies and where they ended up - if anyone is ahead of me in the race to find who captured them and where - the numbers should be in the Manitoba section of the War Trophies register - would not be surprised if they were captured by Manitoba units.

ArmyVern said:
I don't think the authors intentions were to infer that these weapons were specificly "fought" for and obtained after a "win".

Rather, Canada went to war and "fought" the Germans. These weapons were German weapons used against Canadians in that "fight" (War). The Germans could very well have abondoned those weapons -- and Canadians stumbeled accross them. They are still considered "captured" (ie in our posession means they aren't in their posession). Somehow, they made their way here to Canada afterwards ... somehow. So, we need to get them in a museum.
 
Remarkable that they have turned up after all these years.  Good place for them to end up, they will be properly cared for there.
 
If anyone finds more information about these weapons, please post it here. I know a WWI history buff that will be more than a little interested in this. He spent much of his childhood within 10 or so miles of where these were stored, as well!

:cdn:
Hawk

 
Nice find, most MGs captured were brought back by local Battalions and placed in local Legion Halls, fire halls etc. Many have the battalion's particulars hand painted on the cooling jackets of where/when the gun was captured, and many are shrapnel damaged too.

These guns are responsible for many deaths of Allied soldiers, and if a Cdn Bn took them, no doubt many Cdn deaths too.

In the hamlet of Douglas, near Shilo, rests a MG08 on its sled mount, on top of a WW1 memorial to the locals. It was there when I was at the last GATES Oktoberfest in 2000.

In the PC world of anti gun, many of threse guns were removed, destroyed or disappeared in the 80s-90's. Glad to see there is still some around.
 
Wesley  Down Under said:
In the hamlet of Douglas, near Shilo, rests a MG08 on its sled mount, on top of a WW1 memorial to the locals. It was there when I was at the last GATES Oktoberfest in 2000.

In the PC world of anti gun, many of threse guns were removed, destroyed or disappeared in the 80s-90's. Glad to see there is still some around.

The gun is still there.
 
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