Religious/Extremist Terrorism: Non-Muslim edition

[Altair]

I think you missed the point t he was trying to make.

If I were to guess, it could have been this, it could have been that, it could have been any number of things that lead up to this, so let's not speculate on what it could have been.

I simply wonder if we went through this when Michael Zehaf-Bibeau attacked the national war memorial and parliament hill.

Disgruntled former employee?

Lovers spat?

Gang hit?

 

[Remius]

If I were to guess, it could have been this, it could have been that, it could have been any number of things that lead up to this, so let's not speculate on what it could have been.

I simply wonder if we went through this when Michael Zehaf-Bibeau attacked the national war memorial and parliament hill.

Disgruntled former employee?

Lovers spat?

Gang hit?

I think what was different with that is that just before he did what he did another CAF member had been run down in another targeted attack. Couple that with other similar situations it was hard not make that link. Or assume that it might have been a terrorist or ideological attack.

 

[Altair]

I think what was different with that is that just before he did what he did another CAF member had been run down in another targeted attack. Couple that with other similar situations it was hard not make that link. Or assume that it might have been a terrorist or ideological attack.

And that previous attack, did we start thinking it was road rage?

Personal vendetta?

I don't think we did, it was obviously a targeted attack on soldiers.

And it was called terrorism.

So a Muslim man uses vehicle to target and kill a soldier, terror attack. No problems.

Muslim man shoots and kills a soldier in a targeted attack, and then runs to the hill. Terror attack, no problem.

Non Muslim man uses vehicle to target Muslims out on a walk...

Maybe it was road rage?

This isn't terrorism, why call it terrorism?

Virtue signaling!

Wait for a investigation!

Too soon to say!

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Really?

23 dead in El Paso walmart shooting targeting immigrants

8 of Asian American women dead in Atlanta recently.

Please show me the body count of antifa in the same time frame

The Asian women was not about Asian, but about sexual inadequacies.

 

[Altair]

The Asian women was not about Asian, but about sexual inadequacies.

And El paso?

 

[CBH99]

And that previous attack, did we start thinking it was road rage?

Personal vendetta?

I don't think we did, it was obviously a targeted attack on soldiers.

And it was called terrorism.

So a Muslim man uses vehicle to target and kill a soldier, terror attack. No problems.

Muslim man shoots and kills a soldier in a targeted attack, and then runs to the hill. Terror attack, no problem.

Non Muslim man uses vehicle to target Muslims out on a walk...

Maybe it was road rage?

This isn't terrorism, why call it terrorism?

Virtue signaling!

Wait for a investigation!

Too soon to say!

I understand where you're coming from Altair, genuinely. But respectfully, I think you might be jumping the gun a bit?


In the case of Michael Zehaf-Bibeau, the entire situation seemed clearly pre-meditated from the very beginning. Attacking and killing a soldier at the National War Memorial, and then proceeding to Parliament Hill where he was engaged in a firefight with police.

His actions, which included killing someone in cold blood, and then quickly leaving the scene to go to Parliament Hill & ended up in a shoot out with the police -- I don't think anybody could look at that and question whether it was pre-meditated, planned, etc. It clearly was.

It was an act of terrorism, and I believe this is too. No doubt in my mind now, as I read up today on further details of the accused.



I THINK the only distinction was that in THIS CASE, while everything indicated it was a brutal hate crime/terrorism, it wasn't completely confirmed. It was 99% confirmed, but not 100%. As of today, the speculation regarding "Well, maybe this, or maybe that" - is no longer required, as that remaining 1% seems to have been filled in.


I can only speak for myself here...

I was hoping that maybe it was something else. I really was. With the suspect being 20yrs old, I was hoping maybe it was actually some hit & run scenario where he didn't mean to kill them. Or stole the truck and hit them while fleeing. The body armour was because he just robbed a 7-11, and this happened during his getaway. Something. I was just HOPING that the 1% was something else. He seemed to have friends that have ethnic backgrounds, no interactions with law enforcement, no known connections to hate groups, etc. I hoped that meant this wasn't what it appeared to be.

Race doesn't factor into it for me, regardless of what skin colour the attackers/victims are. School shootings are acts of terrorism too, in my eyes anyways. Skin pigment doesn't matter in the slightest. (It matters about as much as the pigment in someone's hair.)



However, turns out this POS is even worse than I thought. Asking the cabbie to call the police, laughing as he's taken into custody, basically bragging about what he had just done.

On the one hand, I try to be a practical minded person. With him laughing about it, wearing body armour, bloody truck, etc - a big part of me is instinctively saying "I don't want to waste any more taxpayer money on this a****** than needed. Take him out back, end it, and carry on with the day." But, under the circumstances of hearing him laugh about it - I actually do want him to suffer & be locked up for the remainder of his life. (I don't know if it's wrong for me to think that way? But death is too kind for some people.)

 

[Remius]

Again the situation in the world was a bit different at that time would you not agree? And that guy was already being watched by the RCMP. They knew he had been radicalized so the info was pretty quick about what this was. He was one of 90 guys being watched since he was trying to make his way to ISIL to fight for them and had been denied a passport before hand. So why would anyone debate that?

 

[PMedMoe]

Non Muslim man uses vehicle to target Muslims out on a walk...

Maybe it was road rage?

This isn't terrorism, why call it terrorism?

Virtue signaling!

Wait for a investigation!

Too soon to say!

Turns out the suspect was wearing body armor. Terrorism? Maybe not. Hate crime? Probably. Premeditated? Definitely.

Man suspected of killing Canadian Muslim family was motivated by hate

 

[Remius]

I guess that’s what we will try and find out in due course. Was this guy doing this to make a statement or was he just trying to kill some brown people he really hated.

 

[Brad Sallows]

You don't see these people on the far right calling for abortion rights, gay marriage, lgbtq rights, you see the opposite.

The "far right" has vile elements, but don't try to dress up the left, in which the mainstream has people who openly and repeatedly advocate censorship, disemployment, physical assault, and criminal punishment up to and including imprisonment for those who hold contrary views (eg. catastrophic climate change skepticism).

 

[Brad Sallows]

I find it sad that 4 Muslim Canadians get killed in what the police are calling a premeditated attack,which would fall under terrorism plain and simple and you see a political agenda.

It is sad, but it's prudent to assume that a political agenda is being served. What crisis or tragedy has happened in the past few years that was not leveraged by politicians to either gain political advantage or as a pretext to open up a couple of items on their honey-do list?

 

[mariomike]

8 of Asian American women dead in Atlanta recently.

Reminded me of one closer to home ( Dufferin and Wilson ) last year. Incel machete attack at a spa. Two wounded with serious injuries. A third woman was found fatally wounded and died on scene. Left behind a five-year old daughter.

Apparently the first time in Canada that someone was charged with terrorism because of a misogynist ideology.

 

[Altair]

The "far right" has vile elements, but don't try to dress up the left, in which the mainstream has people who openly and repeatedly advocate censorship, disemployment, physical assault, and criminal punishment up to and including imprisonment for those who hold contrary views (eg. catastrophic climate change skepticism).

The left is fine.

You're talking about the far left.

Both sides of the spectrum has extremists and extremist views.( though I have yet to see a radical centralist)

And you won't see me dressing up either extreme. I will say that the far right has had a much higher body count, and thus are the more deadly of the two extremes but you won't see me apologizing for either.

 

[OldSolduer]

It is sad, but it's prudent to assume that a political agenda is being served. What crisis or tragedy has happened in the past few years that was not leveraged by politicians to either gain political advantage or as a pretext to open up a couple of items on their honey-do list?

Maybe like reading our texts or emails or open mail without warrant? More seizures of legally owned firearms?

 

[Brad Sallows]

An act of hatred isn't necessarily an act of terrorism, especially if it lacks a political aim. Note that the definition cited above includes "with the intention...".

While objectively "the far right" may be directly responsible for more terrorism deaths than the "far left", a proper measure of the risk to a society has to also account for the indirect effects of activism. The risk of being a victim of white supremacists is far less than the risk of being a victim of common criminals. To the extent that the contemporary movements and causes of the "far left" are responsible for increases in violent crime, the "far left" is likely a greater threat than the "far right". It's just that the deaths and other victims are invisible.

 

[Altair]

An act of hatred isn't necessarily an act of terrorism, especially if it lacks a political aim. Note that the definition cited above includes "with the intention...".

Well that's good.

Every lone wolf attack in the past 20 years aren't terrorism then, good.

The parliament hill attack was simply a act of hatred.

 

[Brad Sallows]

You're talking about the far left.

I meant what I wrote - mainstream.

 

[OldSolduer]

Well that's good.

Every lone wolf attack in the past 20 years aren't terrorism then, good.

The parliament hill attack was simply a act of hatred.

Hypothetically if I hate my neighbour and beat the crap out of him is that terrorism? No - its assault cause bodily harm.

I think you're missing his point.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Every lone wolf attack in the past 20 years aren't terrorism then, good.

Why would you conclude that? A person acting alone can be acting for reasons that do or do not fit the definition.

And for those who wish to cling to the attribute "liberal", what a "lone wolf" does is not an excuse to go after others.

 

[Altair]

I meant what I wrote - mainstream.

I don't care if you meant what you wrote, you're wrong plain and simple.

The left encompasses a large segment of society, in Canada for example you can say that 65 percent of people voted for a left leaning party, so its fair to say that 6 out of 10 Canadians can be described as left leaning

to dump all of those in the category as those extremists on the far right is wrong. Whether you can see that or not is up to you, but its wrong none the less.