Canadian Federal Election 44 - Sep 2021

[Brad Sallows]

Interprovincial migration is useful for the same reasons that immigration is useful. To the extent that policy choices militate interprovincial migration, they are counterproductive. No real underlying logic in supporting some policies because they will promote economic growth while supporting others which retard economic growth.

 

[Weinie]

Here's my only issue with equalization, there seems to be no mechanism to be turning have not provinces into have provinces. Why are there no targeted federal programs to encourage growth in economically weaker parts of the country, shouldn't we be growing Quebec and Ontario to be able to pay in instead of take out?

Oh, but there are. To wit:

Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency - Canada.ca

I prefer to describe it as equalization under another guise, as it seems to get lots of Maritimers to that magic number of weeks when EI kicks in. But then, I am from there, and despise what Maritimers have allowed themselves to be bribed with.

It's really fun when I go home every two years or so. Most family avoids me like the plague, for fear of abuse and chastisement, but that fear melts away when I hold the free barbecue day at the rental cottage. I then can launch on the many mooches I am related to, (who have made an art of milking the system), who have vowed for the last ten years "never to speak to me again" only to show up for the lobster that I buy at the next visit.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Oh, but there are. To wit:

Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency - Canada.ca

I prefer to describe it as equalization under another guise, as it seems to get lots of Maritimers to that magic number of weeks when EI kicks in. But then, I am from there, and despise what Maritimers have allowed themselves to be bribed with.

It's really fun when I go home every two years or so. Most family avoids me like the plague, for fear of abuse and chastisement, but that fear melts away when I hold the free barbecue day at the rental cottage. I then can launch on the many mooches I am related to, (who have made an art of milking the system), who have vowed for the last ten years "never to speak to me again" only to show up for the lobster that I buy at the next visit.

 

[dimsum]

It's really fun when I go home every two years or so. Most family avoids me like the plague, for fear of abuse and chastisement, but that fear melts away when I hold the free barbecue day at the rental cottage. I then can launch on the many mooches I am related to, (who have made an art of milking the system), who have vowed for the last ten years "never to speak to me again" only to show up for the lobster that I buy at the next visit.

So what you're saying is your family has the Simpson Gene.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Oh, but there are. To wit:

Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency - Canada.ca

I prefer to describe it as equalization under another guise ...

And it's not the only such agency out there in Canada ....

 

[mariomike]

Saw this in the news,

95 per cent of the new Tory caucus will be white

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/conserative-caucus-95-per-cent-white-1.6185707

Perhaps more diversity might help their chances?

 

[Jarnhamar]

Perhaps more diversity might help their chances?

Like a Black Jewish female lawyer?

 

[McG]

Alberta could, no doubt, have afforded to provide some of those services that you enjoy. But it was made harder by the net tendency of money to flow out of the province to the federal government and on to other provinces.

That is not how it works. Alberta has the lowest provincial taxes in Canada. If Alberta has lacked the revenues to do what Quebec does, it has nothing to do with federal tax flows and everything to do with the choice to maintain the lowest provincial taxes. I’m not saying that Alberta should or should not raise its own taxes, but that there is no truth to the UCP narrative that Alberta is hard-done by federal transfer & equalization payments.

Here's my only issue with equalization, there seems to be no mechanism to be turning have not provinces into have provinces. Why are there no targeted federal programs to encourage growth in economically weaker parts of the country,

There are targeted programs: Canada's Regional Development Agencies - Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada

 

[Good2Golf]

That is not how it works. Alberta has the lowest provincial taxes in Canada. If Alberta has lacked the revenues to do what Quebec does, it has nothing to do with federal tax flows and everything to do with the choice to maintain the lowest provincial taxes. I’m not saying that Alberta should or should not raise its own taxes, but that there is no truth to the UCP narrative that Alberta is hard-done by federal transfer & equalization payments.

…for the same reason that at the federal government’s current burn-rate, it would at least take a return of GST to 7%, if not more, to at least try to bring the spiraling debt under slightly more control so we don’t get bought by China in 2033…

 

[daftandbarmy]

That is not how it works. Alberta has the lowest provincial taxes in Canada. If Alberta has lacked the revenues to do what Quebec does, it has nothing to do with federal tax flows and everything to do with the choice to maintain the lowest provincial taxes.

In Alberta PST stands for 'Political Suicide Tax'

 

[QV]

As it should. Governments have a spending problem, not a too low tax problem. What’s next, a tax that’ll change the earth‘s climate? The federal government is giving Quebec $6B (that’s one thousand million, six times) for babysitting if you can imagine. We’re so fucked.

 

[ballz]

That is not how it works. Alberta has the lowest provincial taxes in Canada. If Alberta has lacked the revenues to do what Quebec does, it has nothing to do with federal tax flows and everything to do with the choice to maintain the lowest provincial taxes. I’m not saying that Alberta should or should not raise its own taxes, but that there is no truth to the UCP narrative that Alberta is hard-done by federal transfer & equalization payments.

It's exactly how it works. The money is coming from the same source, it's absolute nonsense to argue that the Federal government's tax rate does not affect Alberta's finances. Would you make the same argument if the Federal income tax was 100%, therefore leaving zero income left for the provincial government to draw tax from? Of course you wouldn't, so then at what point did you change your mind? At 15% federal tax? At 20%? 50%? Please, be precise...

If it were a well, and the Federal government came in and took water out of it and gave it to other provinces, would you argue that it has no affect on the water left in the well for Alberta to drink from?

Let's call a spade a spade here, fact is people don't like that Alberta is able to have high income, low taxes, and the same level of services as other provinces. They feel entitled to it, they feel it's not "fair" that they don't have it, without any consideration for the sacrifices many many Albertans make in order to get that high income, such as leaving their family, starting over again from the bottom, switching careers altogether, or doing tough manual labour with ridiculous working hours.

They can have it all too, by doing the honest thing and making the same sacrifices... or they can use tyranny via majority vote.

 

[Altair]

It's exactly how it works. The money is coming from the same source, it's absolute nonsense to argue that the Federal government's tax rate does not affect Alberta's finances. Would you make the same argument if the Federal income tax was 100%, therefore leaving zero income left for the provincial government to draw tax from? Of course you wouldn't, so then at what point did you change your mind? At 15% federal tax? At 20%? 50%? Please, be precise...

Yet every other provinces can manage to have a sales tax.

Go figure.

If it were a well, and the Federal government came in and took water out of it and gave it to other provinces, would you argue that it has no affect on the water left in the well for Alberta to drink from?

Yes because the other have provinces don't have a sales tax.

wait...

Let's call a spade a spade here, fact is people don't like that Alberta is able to have high income, low taxes, and the same level of services as other provinces. They feel entitled to it, they feel it's not "fair" that they don't have it, without any consideration for the sacrifices many many Albertans make in order to get that high income, such as leaving their family, starting over again from the bottom, switching careers altogether, or doing tough manual labour with ridiculous working hours.

Alberta can do what it pleases, but it shouldnt complain about oil prices effecting it's coffers.

They can have it all too, by doing the honest thing and making the same sacrifices... or they can use tyranny via majority vote.

Darn democracy.

 

[McG]

Let's call a spade a spade here, fact is people don't like that Alberta is able to have high income, low taxes, and the same level of services as other provinces.

Is this true? Isn’t the source of the UCP manufactured debate stemming from an inability of Alberta to afford its current level of services? You whinged earlier in this thread about which provinces were running surpluses and which had deficits. Surely that should not be a relevant benchmark for equalization. Federally, all Canadians are taxed the same. Provincially, Alberta is taxed lower than every other province and that is Alberta’s choice.

The UCP is not asking for the federal government to cut taxes for Albertans, it is asking the federal government to give more money to the provincial government. It is asking for federal tax revenue to subsidize the lowest provincial tax rate in the country to avoid cutting services because the province has decided it will not increase its own revenues.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Is this true? Isn’t the source of the UCP manufactured debate stemming from an inability of Alberta to afford its current level of services? You whinged earlier in this thread about which provinces were running surpluses and which had deficits. Surely that should not be a relevant benchmark for equalization. Federally, all Canadians are taxed the same. Provincially, Alberta is taxed lower than every other province and that is Alberta’s choice.

The UCP is not asking for the federal government to cut taxes for Albertans, it is asking the federal government to give more money to the provincial government. It is asking for federal tax revenue to subsidize the lowest provincial tax rate in the country to avoid cutting services because the province has decided it will not increase its own revenues.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Is this true? Isn’t the source of the UCP manufactured debate stemming from an inability of Alberta to afford its current level of services? You whinged earlier in this thread about which provinces were running surpluses and which had deficits. Surely that should not be a relevant benchmark for equalization. Federally, all Canadians are taxed the same. Provincially, Alberta is taxed lower than every other province and that is Alberta’s choice.

The UCP is not asking for the federal government to cut taxes for Albertans, it is asking the federal government to give more money to the provincial government. It is asking for federal tax revenue to subsidize the lowest provincial tax rate in the country to avoid cutting services because the province has decided it will not increase its own revenues.

How about governments at all levels do something novel like, growing their various economies, to pay for social programs?

 

[QV]

How about governments at all levels do something novel like, growing their various economies, to pay for social programs?

You don't want a population to be too successful because you get a different kind of voter with people dependent on social programs vs people who aren't.

 

[McG]

How about governments at all levels do something novel like, growing their various economies, to pay for social programs?

There are targeted programs for that: Canada's Regional Development Agencies - Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada

 

[ArmyRick]

Saw this in the news,

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/conserative-caucus-95-per-cent-white-1.6185707

Perhaps more diversity might help their chances?

The conservatives had plenty of "non-european descendant" peoples running. The problem is they were running in Liberal strong holds, so not a recipe for their success.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Equalization is paid for by taxpayers, not provinces. Federal and provincial taxpayers are approximately identical sets. If equalization ended and the federal government trimmed GST to match, it would leave some "tax points" for provinces, including AB, to use without raising net taxes on taxpayers. The argument that equalization does not come "from provinces" is true, but uninteresting and useless and obscures things which should be "seen" rather than "unseen".

Ending transfer schemes would aggravate regional economic imbalances; increasing regional imbalances would motivate migration of people from where their output (if any) is less productive to where it is more productive. I expect it would give a bigger boost to Canada's economic output than subsidized child care schemes. A rational person who thinks child care subsidies are a good idea because more people will be more productive should be wholly on board with ending equalization. But I doubt many of them are, because what's at stake is not reason, but rather emotion, partisanship, and a calculation purely of personal benefit.