Canadian Federal Election 44 - Sep 2021

[daftandbarmy]

This says it all in one Venn diagram

 

[Halifax Tar]

So instead we create a financial ecosystem where we allow some to live outside their means at the expense of others with no incentive to get off the dole, so to speak ?

In essence it's welfare on provincial scale.

 

[Halifax Tar]

This says it all in one Venn diagram

Lol I'm the minority on the hard blue side lol

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Except cities have, as I have shown, contributed greatly to the economic success of the provinces they are in.

Montreal providing 55 percent of Quebecs GDP. Toronto providing 54 percent. You want to get people in the cities to...not live in cities? Are small towns in the country ready for the influx of city dwellers descending on their communities? Is the infrastructure there? The housing, the jobs, the hospitals?

I doubt that very much. But it would be a great experiment to take 10 percent of Torontos populations and dump in in Wawa ontario.

The reason that Canadian healthcare sucks so bad is because we are have locked the private sector out of the equation. Europe achieves amazing results blending private and public healthcare. Americans receives mediocre healthcare results by not providing a effective public option and Canada achieves mediocre results by not allowing for much of a private option.

Why do I bring this up? Because this universal healthcare system is based on Quebec. Why does that matter? Because Quebec only provides 76 percent of all childcare spots in the province. This is a good blend of private and public. A good omen.

I get nothing out of this childcare deal.

When the top credit rating agencies stop considering Canadians debt amongst the top tier I will start to care.

I get 0 out of this childcare deal.

I guess you do not understand that if the economy grows faster than the debt accumulates it gets easier to service that debt.


Newfoundland is a poor example. Its doesn't have a very industrialized economy. It doesn't have massive resource exports. It doesn't have a massive financial sector. But sure, why not take Newfoundland and apply it writ large across the nation? Why not use PEI next? Or Yukon...

Newfoundland is a massive exporter of resources and energy so I'm not sure where you got this from? Hibernia, Iron Ore Company of Canada, Churchill Falls.... ever heard of them?

Newfoundland's primary problem is it has always
liked to spend like a drunken sailor. Tbh though, most of the East Coast is the same.

As for debt, Canada's problem isn't necessarily high sovereign debt although that is becoming more of an issue. Our main issue is high personal debt, that when combined with high sovereign debt doesn't give us a lot of fiscal room to manoeuvre.

This might not be a problem because as you say, if our economy grows and we are able to service the debt, no biggie. BUT...... and it's a big BUT....

What if our economic growth projections are overly optimistic?

I actually think there are some factors that are going to begin coming in to play that haven't been accounted for or considered adequately, namely:

Aging Population
Supply Issues
Reduced Immigration
Inflation and Increased Cost of Living

Higher childcare costs in larger cities are a direct result of lack of supply and increased cost of living. Think about it....

In order to provide child care as a service, what do you need?

The first thing you need is space and lots of it for kids to run around and play in. In smaller populated areas of Canada, a lot of childcare is provided by individuals out of there own homes. This is run as a small business venture. My Aunt did it for years, had a large house outside Saint John, NB and would look after 7 or 8 children on her own.

In large Cities this isn't nearly as prevalent because most people aren't living in large houses able to support this kind of small business, so already supply is impacted.

Then there is the fact that cost of living in those areas is also significantly higher, to the point that people don't have the ability to run a small childcare business because it just isn't lucrative enough to make it worth their time.

My personal opinion is the Government should be providing subsidies and Incentives to people who want to start childcare businesses in order to increase the supply in the market. This would help stimulate an Industry that people clearly want and need and encourage more people to start childcare businesses in Major Metropolitan areas.

I agree with you that childcare in large Cities is an issue worth examining, how I would tackle the problem would be different.

 

[Remius]

And by adding to supply you create competition and competition creates value for money.

 

[daftandbarmy]

My personal opinion is the Government should be providing subsidies and Incentives to people who want to start childcare businesses in order to increase the supply in the market. This would help stimulate an Industry that people clearly want and need and encourage more people to start childcare businesses in Major Metropolitan areas.

Because you want your kid to be looked after by a potential business failure?

 

[Brad Sallows]

Was gonna say...any business that relies on subsidies is at risk of being a business that is always dependent on subsidies, and thus one which folds up as soon as the subsidies disappear.

Where I live in the Fraser Valley, there is a lot of new construction (condos and townhouses) and several new child care businesses have started. No idea whether they were subsidized. But I can guess that child care is subject to the same demographic effects as schools, except that parents are willing to put in the time to travel a lot further than a school catchment area to get kids into child care. Given how the bureaucrats struggle with managing school populations as distributions change, I suppose they aren't the best people to be picking "winners" for child care.

 

[MilEME09]

Here's my only issue with equalization, there seems to be no mechanism to be turning have not provinces into have provinces. Why are there no targeted federal programs to encourage growth in economically weaker parts of the country, shouldn't we be growing Quebec and Ontario to be able to pay in instead of take out?

 

[The Bread Guy]

Here's my only issue with equalization, there seems to be no mechanism to be turning have not provinces into have provinces. Why are there no targeted federal programs to encourage growth in economically weaker parts of the country, shouldn't we be growing Quebec and Ontario to be able to pay in instead of take out?

For the record, Ontario hasn't received equalization payments since 2019-20 fiscal.

 

[Remius]

For the record, Ontario hasn't received equalization payments since 2019-20 fiscal.

Perception isn’t always reality. Another reality is Kenney was part of the Harper Gvt when it created the current equalization formula.

 

[Brad Sallows]

there seems to be no mechanism to be turning have not provinces into have provinces.

Certainly not as long as relative measures are used. If we were to look at "fiscal capacity" as a measure of the ability to meet some fixed set of responsibilities - without allowing mission creep to keep moving the target - we probably would have ended equalization long ago.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Here's my only issue with equalization, there seems to be no mechanism to be turning have not provinces into have provinces. Why are there no targeted federal programs to encourage growth in economically weaker parts of the country, shouldn't we be growing Quebec and Ontario to be able to pay in instead of take out?

Part of the problem is that politicians look for best vote for the money benefit and that is not in the areas that need the programs. We haven't had politicians at the provincial level who can see their province as a whole for a long time. I look at the work that WAC Bennett did in the 1960's and credit him with a lot of BC successes.

 

[Altair]

Here's my only issue with equalization, there seems to be no mechanism to be turning have not provinces into have provinces. Why are there no targeted federal programs to encourage growth in economically weaker parts of the country, shouldn't we be growing Quebec and Ontario to be able to pay in instead of take out?

Okay.

And I wont say this to be condesending, but as a honest question.

How do you get the average wage and GDP per person in a place like PEI to a place like Ontario or Alberta? And how do you get Ontario and Alberta to not grow while PEI and Quebec catch up?

Either you pick favorites in confederation and go beyond what Equalization is meant to do, keep things equal, and that would involve even MORE money and renaming the program acceleration, in order to make Quebec and the Atlantic provinces grow much faster than the have provinces or you keep the current system where Quebec and the Atlantic provinces more or less keep up but are not gaining on the have provinces.

 

[Altair]

Certainly not as long as relative measures are used. If we were to look at "fiscal capacity" as a measure of the ability to meet some fixed set of responsibilities - without allowing mission creep to keep moving the target - we probably would have ended equalization long ago.

It would be deemed unconstitutional.

Because its in the constitution.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Third option. Just end equalization, and let people figure out where they want to live, work, and pay taxes.

 

[Altair]

Third option. Just end equalization, and let people figure out where they want to live, work, and pay taxes.

It would be deemed unconstitutional.

Because its in the constitution.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Okay.

And I wont say this to be condesending, but as a honest question.

How do you get the average wage and GDP per person in a place like PEI to a place like Ontario or Alberta? And how do you get Ontario and Alberta to not grow while PEI and Quebec catch up?

Why should the average wage and GDP per person in PEI be like those in Ont or Alberta if PEI can't do that organically ?

Shouldn't this be what encourages people to strike out and make their own way ?

Either you pick favorites in confederation and go beyond what Equalization is meant to do, keep things equal, and that would involve even MORE money and renaming the program acceleration, in order to make Quebec and the Atlantic provinces grow much faster than the have provinces or you keep the current system where Quebec and the Atlantic provinces more or less keep up but are not gaining on the have provinces.

I would say we are picking favorites by allowing certain provinces to expect to be kept afloat by an annual infusion of cash from others.

I've said it before, I can understand the separation movement in the west. I may not like it but I can see where it comes from.

 

[Altair]

Newfoundland is a massive exporter of resources and energy so I'm not sure where you got this from? Hibernia, Iron Ore Company of Canada, Churchill Falls.... ever heard of them?

Newfoundland's primary problem is it has always
liked to spend like a drunken sailor. Tbh though, most of the East Coast is the same.

Yes, I'm aware NFLD isn't a barren wasteland, and they do have a lot of economic activity.

I'm even aware that they are not a have not province.

But I also aware that their economy is not as dynamic as others in confederation and they are very vulnerable to things like the price of oil dropping and resources prices fluctuating. One cannot look at NFLD and think that their economy is widely diversified and capable of withstanding external changes as well as Canada as a whole is.

Which is why I say it may not be the best practice to compare NFLD and Canada as a whole and come to the same conclusions for both.

As for debt, Canada's problem isn't necessarily high sovereign debt although that is becoming more of an issue. Our main issue is high personal debt, that when combined with high sovereign debt doesn't give us a lot of fiscal room to manoeuvre.

High personal debt is bad, agreed. What to do about it however?

This might not be a problem because as you say, if our economy grows and we are able to service the debt, no biggie. BUT...... and it's a big BUT....

What if our economic growth projections are overly optimistic?

Then the debt load goes down more slowly. We are talking generally a percentage point here, a percentage point there, nothing world shattering in the grand scheme of things.

I actually think there are some factors that are going to begin coming in to play that haven't been accounted for or considered adequately, namely:

Aging Population
Supply Issues
Reduced Immigration
Inflation and Increased Cost of Living

I don't think immigration is reducing anytime soon.

Inflation is up now, but it was stagnant last year, so over the last 2 pandemic years nothing is out of the ordinary. Next year will tell us a fuller picture.

Higher childcare costs in larger cities are a direct result of lack of supply and increased cost of living. Think about it....

In order to provide child care as a service, what do you need?

The first thing you need is space and lots of it for kids to run around and play in. In smaller populated areas of Canada, a lot of childcare is provided by individuals out of there own homes. This is run as a small business venture. My Aunt did it for years, had a large house outside Saint John, NB and would look after 7 or 8 children on her own.

In large Cities this isn't nearly as prevalent because most people aren't living in large houses able to support this kind of small business, so already supply is impacted.

Then there is the fact that cost of living in those areas is also significantly higher, to the point that people don't have the ability to run a small childcare business because it just isn't lucrative enough to make it worth their time.

My personal opinion is the Government should be providing subsidies and Incentives to people who want to start childcare businesses in order to increase the supply in the market. This would help stimulate an Industry that people clearly want and need and encourage more people to start childcare businesses in Major Metropolitan areas.

I agree with you that childcare in large Cities is an issue worth examining, how I would tackle the problem would be different.

I have no problem with that. Different options can be explored for sure, and the merits of them discussed.

What I don't like is people saying thats a problem, but so sad, too bad, suck it up.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Leader of the Greens says bye bye

Annamie Paul resigns as Green Party leader

Annamie Paul is resigning. The embattled Green Party leader announced Monday that she’s started the process of withdrawing from the role, calling her less than a year at the helm of the party 'the worst period' in her life. Paul's decision to step down comes on the heels of the party initiating...

www.ctvnews.ca

 

[Altair]

Why should the average wage and GDP per person in PEI be like those in Ont or Alberta if PEI can't do that organically ?

Shouldn't this be what encourages people to strike out and make their own way ?

Parliament and the government of Canada are committed to the principle of making equalization payments to ensure that provincial governments have sufficient revenues to provide reasonably comparable levels of public services at reasonably comparable levels of taxation.

— Constitution Act, 1982, s. 36(2)

I would say we are picking favorites by allowing certain provinces to expect to be kept afloat by an annual infusion of cash from others.

Parliament and the government of Canada are committed to the principle of making equalization payments to ensure that provincial governments have sufficient revenues to provide reasonably comparable levels of public services at reasonably comparable levels of taxation.

— Constitution Act, 1982, s. 36(2)