Replacing the Subs

[Underway]

I'm curious. How does the RCN classify availability. For example, in my line of business, we have three tiers: 1) Available (Operational, all functionality working as expected), 2) Operational with Deficiencies (Available, some functions degraded or not working), and 3) Out of Service.

Does the RCN have tiers of availability? I would assume yes, or ships would bever sail.

Withough going into to much detail:

We go by Operational Deficiency Categories which are NATO standard. CAT 1 deficiency ship cannot sail. CAT 4 is basically nuisance (I've never even staffed one that I can recall).

If a system doesn't have an OPDEF attached to it then its availalbe to do its job with no restrictions. Interestingly enough you can have equipment that isn't working but you're still sailing because it doesn't impact the mission.

Otherwise we're basically just like what you stated. Its working as advertized, does it have an OPDEF, is it U/S (unserviceable).

 

[calculus]

Withough going into to much detail:

We go by Operational Deficiency Categories which are NATO standard. CAT 1 deficiency ship cannot sail. CAT 4 is basically nuisance (I've never even staffed one that I can recall).

If a system doesn't have an OPDEF attached to it then its availalbe to do its job with no restrictions. Interestingly enough you can have equipment that isn't working but you're still sailing because it doesn't impact the mission.

Otherwise we're basically just like what you stated. Its working as advertized, does it have an OPDEF, is it U/S (unserviceable).

Thanks @Underway. The maintainer geek in me is satisfied.

 

[Kirkhill]

We certainly have all the engineering knowledge base in all of the relevant engineering fields, but these engineers currently work in various corporations interested in one aspect or the other, whether it be aeronautical, explosives, guidance, AI or electronic warfare, etc. etc.

The next question: Assuming 12 subs, with four missiles per sub as a loadout, and a second reload in storage, then we are talking 96 missiles. At that point, is it worth it to pull together from those various businesses a team with all the proper engineering knowledge and set up a production line for only one hundred missile, and then shut it down? Probably is better to tag along someone else's production line.

Add in a couple hundred more shore based missiles for the coastal/territorial defense mission?

 

[Underway]

Add in a couple hundred more shore based missiles for the coastal/territorial defense mission?

No. Mobile defences are priority. Ships, Subs and aircraft. Coastal defense is a fake mission imagined up by the spiritual successors to the NRMA from WW2. We would be creating Zombies all over again.

 

[YZT580]

Add in a couple hundred more shore based missiles for the coastal/territorial defense mission?

also add in the necessity to replace those original loadouts. You don't really think that it will all be over in 96 shots do you?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

No. Mobile defences are priority. Ships, Subs and aircraft. Coastal defense is a fake mission imagined up by the spiritual successors to the NRMA from WW2. We would be creating Zombies all over again.

Could well be the "Home Guard" type mission. Older folk who had served or can't serve. I see Coastal defense incorporating Anti-ship missile, drone defense of critical infrastructure in ports and route survey/clearance.

 

[Furniture]

Could well be the "Home Guard" type mission. Older folk who had served or can't serve. I see Coastal defense incorporating Anti-ship missile, drone defense of critical infrastructure in ports and route survey/clearance.

In a WW2 style total war we definitely should go down that route.

That said, we will likely have time to do those things before/during the war, so we should focused on the forward defense/offense first.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

In a WW2 style total war we definitely should go down that route.

That said, we will likely have time to do those things before/during the war, so we should focused on the forward defense/offense first.

I think we need to do both at the same time. I would focus the home guard onto the drone defense and route survey mission first as they are likley the first threats and then develop the missile battery concept once you have the organizational and personal stuff sorted.

 

[Rainbow1910]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/south-korea-hyundai-heavy-industries-hanwha-ocean-submarine-pitch-1.7527252

New article on the KSS-III from Murray Brewster. Some interesting points:

Canada has asked shipyards worldwide for expressions of interest in building the country's new submarine fleet. Companies in Germany, Norway and Spain responded in addition to the South Koreans. However, Hanwha Ocean and HHI went a step further and submitted a highly detailed proposal that not only proposed the sale of the KSS-IIIs, but the establishment of specialized maintenance facilities on both coasts.

Each of the KS-IIIs incorporate a high degree of automation and would operate with a standard crew size of 33 sailors. Although, there is room to embark as many as 50 crew members. There are three decks, which Hanwha Ocean officials emphasized would allow for mixed gender crews. The proposal submitted to Ottawa includes a detailed crew training plan that would see Canadian sailors given basic and tactical training in Korea while the boats are being constructed. The plan would be for a Canadian crew to sail the boat and be ready to conduct operations almost immediately.

The Royal Canadian Navy has set 2035 as the deadline for delivery of its first new submarine to replace the old Victoria class. Hanwha Ocean officials said Canada could have four submarines by that time, with the first one delivered between 2030 and 2032. The rest would follow every couple of years at intervals set by the Canadian government. The schedule is provided a contract is signed next year. The proposal also includes the notion of constructing one or two maintenance facilities in Canada — perhaps one on each coast. But that would be a decision of the Canadian government and the cost would be in addition to the $20-billion to $24-billion initial purchase of the boats. Hanwha Ocean officials said the deliveries would be on time and on budget with no surprises

 

[Halifax Tar]

No. Mobile defences are priority. Ships, Subs and aircraft. Coastal defense is a fake mission imagined up by the spiritual successors to the NRMA from WW2. We would be creating Zombies all over again.

I had to look up what NRMA was, I appreciate you improving my slack and idleness.

 

[Kirkhill]

I had to look up what NRMA was, I appreciate you improving my slack and idleness.

Seacans are mobile.

Launchers are housed in seacans.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Seacans are mobile.

Launchers are housed in seacans.

Not sure that was meant for me.

 

[Kirkhill]

Not sure that was meant for me.

It wasn't. Sorry.

Extra missiles of the kind that can be launched from subs and surface platforms could also be used for home defense or to thicken up the defenses of allies in need.

And with respect to the time element, where do we anticipate finding 6 years to recreate our WW2 force?

If you don't have it on day one you don't have it.

WRT S. Korea offering maintenance facilities and factories, as has been noted, they could offer strategic value to the Koreans. They will need lots of bullets and missiles and places to repair and replace damaged kit.

 

[Underway]

Could well be the "Home Guard" type mission. Older folk who had served or can't serve. I see Coastal defense incorporating Anti-ship missile, drone defense of critical infrastructure in ports and route survey/clearance.

Yah Zombies. Losers who join the CAF with the hopes of never going anywhere and getting a pension out of it. Basically the people who only want HRA or FSA because they think they will stay in Borden their whole career.

I had to look up what NRMA was, I appreciate you improving my slack and idleness.

I was going to link it, but I did see you being idle. I would never accuse you of slack. You are a take up slack kinda person in my book!

 

[Underway]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/south-korea-hyundai-heavy-industries-hanwha-ocean-submarine-pitch-1.7527252

New article on the KSS-III from Murray Brewster. Some interesting points:

Sounds about right. I would go a step further in dream land. Get a yard built and do the next set of 12 ourselves with Korean help. Its what Korea did.

Interestingly if Canada got these 12 we would become NATO's 2nd largest operator of submarines (tied with Turkey).

 

[Halifax Tar]

I was going to link it, but I did see you being idle. I would never accuse you of slack. You are a take up slack kinda person in my book!

I'm pretty sure you just called me a capstan...

 

[calculus]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/south-korea-hyundai-heavy-industries-hanwha-ocean-submarine-pitch-1.7527252

New article on the KSS-III from Murray Brewster. Some interesting points:

It's interesting the comment about having the choice to integrate systems other than the Korean systems. That has been a concern I've seen expressed by pundits, specifically around training, and interoperability with NATO partners. If there is a clear path to developing a version of this sub with a more familiar combat system and weapons, without causing a huge development delay, I really don't see how any other of the competing designs has any chance here. Just get it over and order the damn things!

 

[PrairieFella]

So if everything goes according the ideal and we get 12 KSS III with a full loadout of ballistic or cruise missiles, where does that put our sub fleet? On par with the Royal Navy? The French Navy? Russia? What kind of effects would this have on canadian power projection and naval prestige (notwithstanding the other naval procurements ongoing).

 

[PrairieFella]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/south-korea-hyundai-heavy-industries-hanwha-ocean-submarine-pitch-1.7527252

New article on the KSS-III from Murray Brewster. Some interesting points:

That deal sounds almost too good to be true. Naturally we won't sign it lol.

 

[GK .Dundas]

That deal sounds almost too good to be true. Naturally we won't sign it lol.

I have posted this elsewhere
It's nearly the closest deal I seen in the past thirty years to perfection as concerns military procurement.
I keep wondering how this Country's political and military leadership are going to screw this up.
It is such a perfect deal how could they not resist trying to screw it up.
I'm reminded of the time some years back we were negotiating for one those huge and fast AORs the Americans had just placed in reserve.
Almost had the deal clinched and then someone decided we really needed a lower mileage Tico class cruiser and a bunch of other stuff as well. While offering them an insultingly small amount of cash.
There's a reason the Americans don't treat us as a serious nation... we're not.
We used to be and hopefully will be again.