New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy

[lenaitch]

I find this to be amazing - Trump is either not aware of this joint effort where America is not the head and shoulders leader of this or it’s a rare rare case of Trump America actively working with Allies on something that all three will gain equally.

Just wait 'til he finds out somebody is trying to undermine his administration.

 

[Stoker]

Good news I heard that Oriole has been saved and will be funded. Apparently she has some fans in high places.

 

[PrairieFella]

Good news I heard that Oriole has been saved and will be funded. Apparently she has some fans in high places.

If the Oriole is one of the reasons I still dont have working trucks that are 5 years behind schedule, I'm gonna cry.

 

[dapaterson]

Good news I heard that Oriole has been saved and will be funded. Apparently she has some fans in high places.

Keeping ancient things because "tradition" says that the CAF is not a serious organization.

Oriole should have been a reef decades ago.

 

[FJAG]

Keeping ancient things because "tradition" says that the CAF is not a serious organization.

Oriole should have been a reef decades ago.

I'm in favour of keeping her so long as her upkeep and maintenance is paid for by way of a pay deduction from the pay of serving admirals, commodores and captains.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I'm in favour of keeping her so long as her upkeep and maintenance is paid for by way of a pay deduction from the pay of serving admirals, commodores and captains.

I would rather replace it with a bigger sail training vessel, that can do more.

 

[FJAG]

I would rather replace it with a bigger sail training vessel, that can do more.

I appreciate the benefits that some time under sail can bring to the formation of a young naval officer cadet, but is the time and resources spent on that truly the best way that their time and the government's money ought to be spent?

If I was to do a parallel for us old arty types, should our cadet training include learning how to handle a horse drawn 18 pdr and do the manual calculations for a standard barrage? Sure, it would have some benefits in our general gunner education, but would it be the best use of our time and money?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I appreciate the benefits that some time under sail can bring to the formation of a young naval officer cadet, but is the time and resources spent on that truly the best way that their time and the government's money ought to be spent?

If I was to do a parallel for us old arty types, should our cadet training include learning how to handle a horse drawn 18 pdr and do the manual calculations for a standard barrage? Sure, it would have some benefits in our general gunner education, but would it be the best use of our time and money?

I think you get a much more rounded officer out of it. Thee are qualities that don't translate to a piece of equipment or paper.

 

[FJAG]

I think you get a much more rounded officer out of it. Thee are qualities that don't translate to a piece of equipment or paper.

But is there empirical data to that effect or is it a sailor's "my gut tells me" thing.

 

[Rainbow1910]

Good news I heard that Oriole has been saved and will be funded. Apparently she has some fans in high places.

Good news for some people lol, I'd prefer that ship turned into RCN themed matchsticks or a museum on land at best.

 

[quadrapiper]

Good news for some people lol, I'd prefer that ship turned into RCN themed matchsticks or a museum on land at best.

What's the actual annual cost?

 

[Kirkhill]

I appreciate the benefits that some time under sail can bring to the formation of a young naval officer cadet, but is the time and resources spent on that truly the best way that their time and the government's money ought to be spent?

If I was to do a parallel for us old arty types, should our cadet training include learning how to handle a horse drawn 18 pdr and do the manual calculations for a standard barrage? Sure, it would have some benefits in our general gunner education, but would it be the best use of our time and money?

I think you get a much more rounded officer out of it. Thee are qualities that don't translate to a piece of equipment or paper.

I have found myself dabbling in a lot of stuff in my life.

Over the years I was a Sea Cadet and learned to sail in a gaff rigged whaler, got my civvy qualifications on a 27 footer at Pickering and also have my Personal Craft Operating Card.

I also have found myself all at sea in a variety of powered craft of various sizes. Always grateful that someone else was driving.

One observation I have is that no matter how big the boat, or how powerful the engine, wind and waves always win. You need to learn how to work with them. Sailing gives you that understanding. In my opinion.

 

[Stoker]

What's the actual annual cost?

That's a good point. A few years ago they cut back and limited where Oriole deployed keeping the ship local area to cut costs instead of sending it to the Lakes. AOPS which is not cheap to send by any means went in its stead, probably oping to send something new to accurately reflect what the RCN is today. I do know when it came from the WC initially its refit was millions and done in Lunenburg. Whenever the ships deploys from Halifax and goes into a foreign port all the crew are entitled to hotels and TD costs which in itself is a massive cost, maintenance also must be expensive as its over a 100 year old ship and some of the contractors needed to tune rigging are specialized.

 

[Stoker]

I would rather replace it with a bigger sail training vessel, that can do more.

If we had a big Navy with lots of resources including people I would tend to agree and buy something new which shipyards do build. Can't really get behind this endless money hole when we have platforms tied up that could actually deploy.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

If we had a big Navy with lots of resources including people I would tend to agree and buy something new which shipyards do build. Can't really get behind this endless money hole when we have platforms tied up that could actually deploy.

A brigantine under 200' but can cross oceans, can do a lot of the "Show the flag" and training at the same time. The current vessel is to small to do that well and we don't need a very large tall ship either.

 

[Stoker]

A brigantine under 200' but can cross oceans, can do a lot of the "Show the flag" and training at the same time. The current vessel is to small to do that well and we don't need a very large tall ship either.

Like I said if we had the resources such as personnel, money etc it may have some merit. Can't see that changing even in the long term.

 

[dapaterson]

Oriole is the RCN in a nutshell: unproven assumptions, maintenance of historical things best left to reenactors, costs buried, and an avoidance of hard decisions.

 

[GK .Dundas]

Oriole is the RCN in a nutshell: unproven assumptions, maintenance of historical things best left to reenactors, costs buried, and an avoidance of hard decisions.

On one hand I agree but damn !
Harsh.

 

[quadrapiper]

That's a good point. A few years ago they cut back and limited where Oriole deployed keeping the ship local area to cut costs instead of sending it to the Lakes. AOPS which is not cheap to send by any means went in its stead, probably oping to send something new to accurately reflect what the RCN is today. I do know when it came from the WC initially its refit was millions and done in Lunenburg. Whenever the ships deploys from Halifax and goes into a foreign port all the crew are entitled to hotels and TD costs which in itself is a massive cost, maintenance also must be expensive as its over a 100 year old ship and some of the contractors needed to tune rigging are specialized.

Bearing the limited training area in mind, a return to the West Coast and some sort of cost- and time-sharing arrangement with CJCR would be interesting.

Plenty of expenditures CJCR-side that provide less value than, basically, buying whatever Oriole time the Navy doesn't want.

 

[dapaterson]

Bearing the limited training area in mind, a return to the West Coast and some sort of cost- and time-sharing arrangement with CJCR would be interesting.

Plenty of expenditures CJCR-side that provide less value than, basically, buying whatever Oriole time the Navy doesn't want.

Give me two pieces of factual evidence that Oriole contributes to CAF readiness.