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Replacing the Subs

The contract states one on the west coast and one on the east coast.
Whatever happens, each facility should have the ability to handle at least 1 sub, 1 river and 1 cdc at a time, preferably those 3 plus at least 1 more.

The last thing we need is a faculty that can only handle a sub and a river at one time and nothing else. We have a very long track record of during the absolute minimum at the very cheapest price and then wring our hands when it comes up short.
G7 country in name only.
Of course there's going to be maintenance facilities on the WC. I would foresee the same facilities supporting the west coast Victoria's being used as a possibility.

I always said Canada needs more facilities to allow warship maintenance other than the big three shipyards. Saint John to look after the subs and whatever ships that need docking that Halifax and Davie can't handle.
 
Not going to happen. I foresee SK partnering with some shipyard to try and win the maintenance contract. Its probably going to be Irving, Davie or Seaspan. The smart yard would be talking to SK now and investing in a facility for just that. The really smart yard would also include maintenance facilities for warships as well.
I believe the main partner here is going to be Babcock so expect them to be involved with the in country work
 
If they are, they still need a yard so it will be them, a yard and SK.
Well here’s to Saint John (for the East Coast site), being reopened and all the new jobs and opportunities for the city and its people that will go along with it.
 

Canada’s New Submarines Will Be Lethal, Stealthy, and Very UnCanadian​


In 2017, HMCS Chicoutimi undertook a dangerous and difficult assignment. For months, the Canadian submarine operated as part of an international task force enforcing sanctions against North Korea. The mission demanded long stretches of silently listening and watching as ships moved along the coast. From this vantage point, Chicoutimi gathered intelligence on vessels suspected of carrying contraband and cued surface warships to intercept them.

The risks were real. North Korea’s navy had fired at, and even sunk, South Korean naval patrols in these waters. For the Royal Canadian Navy, however, the mission was a vindication. Canada’s current submarine force—four boats in total, all bought second-hand from the United Kingdom—has had a troubled history, and none embodied this more than Chicoutimi. In 2004, a fire during her delivery voyage killed one sailor and left the vessel sidelined for years. Operating off the Korean Peninsula, Chicoutimi showed that she, and her Victoria-class counterparts, could still shoulder an operationally significant role

 
This is the quote from Topshee that is the real point of things:

a very unCanadian capability, and that’s the ability to stealthily approach another coast and hold them at risk. Because in this world, it’s not enough to sit back and wait for someone to attack us and hope that we can defeat that attack. We need to be capable of deterring that attack and, potentially, retaliating against that attack to make sure that we can protect ourselves and hold them at risk, just as they hold us at risk. It’s a different world. It’s a different way of thinking for us in Canada.
 
Agreed.

There are some folk who continue to think along the lines of "everyone loves Canada we're peacekeepers" and think listening in and gathering information is "unfair" and we should not do it.
There are plenty on this board. And in gov't and even in the military. The paradigm has shifted and like all things some people will take longer to change their view, and some may never move. Its not IF war its WHEN war now.
 
There are plenty on this board. And in gov't and even in the military. The paradigm has shifted and like all things some people will take longer to change their view, and some may never move. Its not IF war its WHEN war now.
I have said forever that Canada needs to be better prepped for war, and that includes Stealth capabilities. If that includes having a sub or four parked off North Korea or China's coasts....so be it. You can be guaranteed the Russians, Chinese etc don't "fight fair". +-
Every soldier, sailor or aviator is a potential source of information and they need to be trained and equipped to fulfill those needs.


"Fighting fair" only applies to sports and even then they don't fight fair either. Buzz Beurling had a quote about fighting a war and it was to the effect that "there is no room for soft headedness". I can't find it right now but at some point I will.
 
There are plenty on this board. And in gov't and even in the military. The paradigm has shifted and like all things some people will take longer to change their view, and some may never move. Its not IF war its WHEN war now.
Time to start easing those in the CAF that think along those lines into roles of less significance and into an early retirement.
 
Another great article from the Walrus....


....

Highlights

" Carney’s commitment to the new NATO target of 5 percent of GDP for defence and defence-related infrastructure by 2035 will require annual expenditures of up to $150 billion.

" The result will be a country forced to confront the reality of projecting power. Submarines embody this. Stealthy and lethal, a modern submarine can clandestinely watch and threaten a potential enemy. Simply knowing that Canada has such weaponry forces an adversary nation to assume that they could be present anytime, anywhere."

.....

" In March of this year, the commander of the RCN, Vice Admiral Angus Topshee, made some comments to an Ottawa audience which neatly sum up where the submarine purchase will take us as a country. Given how rarely senior military leaders are so open about these issues, his words are worth quoting at length. The new vessels, he said, represent:

" "A very unCanadian capability, and that’s the ability to stealthily approach another coast and hold them at risk. Because in this world, it’s not enough to sit back and wait for someone to attack us and hope that we can defeat that attack. We need to be capable of deterring that attack and, potentially, retaliating against that attack to make sure that we can protect ourselves and hold them at risk, just as they hold us at risk. It’s a different world. It’s a different way of thinking for us in Canada."

"Are we ready for what this means?"

....

" What has also arrived, to refer back to Vice Admiral Topshee’s comments, is a willingness to admit, from the outset, that these submarines are to be employed as lethal weapons. Also of note is his admission that we will not simply be using them to defend Canadian waters. Though that is their primary purpose, we also intend them to be used to threaten others who we believe are threatening us."

...

" This points to a host of bigger issues. It’s true that Canadians are more alert to the vulnerabilities in our north. In a 2024 Nanos poll, most said they supported acquiring submarines to defend the country. But it’s not clear that Canadians are used to thinking of themselves as a serious military power. It will require some significant leadership on the part of our politicians and military leaders to take the public consciousness into this space.

" And, of course, it’s not only about submarines and the larger navy. This will also be true of the army and the air force."

...


" Are we ready for this? Do we understand that we’re on the verge of being able to respond to threats ourselves, instead of depending on the US to do it for us? Do we understand that with this capability comes an expectation from allies and adversaries alike that we will be prepared to use it? Is our political and diplomatic class ready to think of Canada as something other than a small, lightly armed junior ally—one that’s long been free to say what it wants without any real expectation of having to act?

" Though we have not been leading peacekeepers for a very long time, many Canadians still consider Canada primarily in that light—when they think about defence-related matters at all. But peacekeeping no longer means, and has not meant for a long time, a few lightly armed troops sitting on an internationally agreed line between combatants who accept their presence. It means fighting your way into messy civil wars in faraway places and enforcing ceasefires and peace agreements in the face of serious opposition. We will soon have the capability to play a leading role in such missions. Will we act on it? "
 
...

" Are we ready for this? Do we understand that we’re on the verge of being able to respond to threats ourselves, instead of depending on the US to do it for us? Do we understand that with this capability comes an expectation from allies and adversaries alike that we will be prepared to use it? Is our political and diplomatic class ready to think of Canada as something other than a small, lightly armed junior ally—one that’s long been free to say what it wants without any real expectation of having to act?

" Though we have not been leading peacekeepers for a very long time, many Canadians still consider Canada primarily in that light—when they think about defence-related matters at all. But peacekeeping no longer means, and has not meant for a long time, a few lightly armed troops sitting on an internationally agreed line between combatants who accept their presence. It means fighting your way into messy civil wars in faraway places and enforcing ceasefires and peace agreements in the face of serious opposition. We will soon have the capability to play a leading role in such missions. Will we act on it? "
Basically you're asking the question: 'Are we ready to be a country and act like a country instead of someone's colony?'

Well, are we?
 
If they are, they still need a yard so it will be them, a yard and SK.
I believe that the area where the yacht club used to be in Esq was cleared to look at adding pens there. Though that was before the number of 12 boats came up. Id imagine a sorta land swap could be done with the local Songhees to get the area nearby.
 
Basically you're asking the question: 'Are we ready to be a country and act like a country instead of someone's colony?'

Well, are we?
I don't think its that simple. We are quite frankly blessed to be sitting in the world where we are. We benifited from a benign neighbour, and three oceans. Fireproof house far from inflamable materials. Canada's largest geopolitical threat was (and I think still is) internal differences that threaten to pull us apart, whether that be the traditional French/English, the Protestant/Catholic one (long dormant now), or the newer West/Central/East one.

Well the world got smaller, the neighbour is not as benign as they once were, and the ice cap that was our natural barrier up north is melting.

So we're going to have to act like countries in places of the world that are not as blessed as we are geographically.

All of Canada's wars (since confederation) were choices. We need to be prepared for the war that isn't a choice, because we don't have the distance or time anymore to get ready like before. Or we might be the ones who have to choose to fight for our own interests as there won't be someone who's interests align with our own out there anymore.
 
I don't think its that simple. We are quite frankly blessed to be sitting in the world where we are. We benifited from a benign neighbour, and three oceans. Fireproof house far from inflamable materials. Canada's largest geopolitical threat was (and I think still is) internal differences that threaten to pull us apart, whether that be the traditional French/English, the Protestant/Catholic one (long dormant now), or the newer West/Central/East one.

Well the world got smaller, the neighbour is not as benign as they once were, and the ice cap that was our natural barrier up north is melting.

So we're going to have to act like countries in places of the world that are not as blessed as we are geographically.

All of Canada's wars (since confederation) were choices. We need to be prepared for the war that isn't a choice, because we don't have the distance or time anymore to get ready like before. Or we might be the ones who have to choose to fight for our own interests as there won't be someone who's interests align with our own out there anymore.
Valid points -
Though not to be confused as 'wars' but 'skirmishes' - the Fenian Raids and the North-West Rebellion were both cases that if we didn't act quickly, decisively and without remorse, our 'benign' neighbour to our south could have easily settled things for us not in our favour. These were examples where we acted as a country, not as a colony. We didn't look to the British to fix the problem for us, we went out and fixed it ourselves.

This attitude and decisiveness needs to be dusted off and begin to become a cornerstone of our policy into the future.
 
@Underway

"so the world got smaller"

In the 14th century a man could influence events as far as he could send an arrow.

By the 18th century gunpowder hadn't increased that influence that much.

Even as recently as last decade the range of a rifle was only a few hundred meters.

If you wanted to reach farther than that you needed complex machinery that only governments could afford.

Now individuals can reach out 10s if not 100s of kilometers.

Complexity rises.
 
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