Liberal Minority Government 2025 - ???

[Brad Sallows]

If we are in the business from buying shit from our enemies, let's consider the J35 beside the F35 shall we?

"Enemies".

Sure. Got a guess for when we pull out of all our defence and space agency entanglements?

 

[Altair]

i agree but at this stage i question whether Trump would veto the Gripen purchase

An opportunity for both SAAB and Canada to fully decouple the Gripen from the USA.

I don't give a damn about what the USA does, we need to, as a country, be willing to run through a wall to achieve our goals, not cower at the first hint of adversity.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Trump puts tariffs.

China retaliates.

Trump removes tariffs.

China responds.

Deal!

You don't get credit for putting out the fire you yourself started.

So does that mean he did make a deal with China?

 

[Brad Sallows]

By not getting any deal with anyone and having the rest of the world including Canada run into the arms of China as the more reasonable global partner is winning?

Canada and the rest of the world have allowed Trump's deranged bluster to derange their own moral compasses.

 

[Quirky]

An opportunity for both SAAB and Canada to fully decouple the Gripen from the USA.

I'm looking forward to having 16 F-35s as our only fighter jet in operation for the next 30 years until a Gripen without USA components gets tested.

 

[Altair]

I'm looking forward to having 16 F-35s as our only fighter jet in operation for the next 30 years until a Gripen without USA components gets tested.

I've been to Ikea. The Swedes move faster than that.

 

[Altair]

So does that mean he did make a deal with China?

No more than an arsonist put out the fire, no

 

[Jarnhamar]

An opportunity for both SAAB and Canada to fully decouple the Gripen from the USA.

Should be easy enough.

There's a paved circular track in the middle of nowhere south of Trenton Ontario where they allegedly used to test the engine for the Avro. Tied it to a post and it went in circles.

We could cut back the brush and put it to use again.

 

[Altair]

Should be easy enough.

There's a paved circular track in the middle of nowhere south of Trenton Ontario where they allegedly used to test the engine for the Avro. Tied it to a post and it went in circles.

We could cut back the brush and put it to use again.

Listen.

Would it suck if the Americans vetoed the Gripen to Canada? Yes.

Would every other country immediately rush to make sure no American component is ever put into any of their future defense equipment? Also yes.

It would suck for us. It would suck worse for the Americans.

 

[dapaterson]

Should be easy enough.

There's a paved circular track in the middle of nowhere south of Trenton Ontario where they allegedly used to test the engine for the Avro. Tied it to a post and it went in circles.

We could cut back the brush and put it to use again.

Have to do a species at risk assessment first.

 

[Altair]

Have to do a species at risk assessment first.

Could also go to Sweden...crazy thought.

 

[Lumber]

Should we buy our fighter jets based on what the population wants?

Espeically when 44% of said population was somehow unaware the government was releasing a budget?

Wait wait wait, Jarn. Are you saying that we shouldn't listen to the people and should instead let the government decide what "equipment" we as a nation have access to? Just want to make clear your position, because I might have something to say to you about it in another thread you and I are having a discussion in .

 

[Czech_pivo]

This back and forth by those on the one far side of the argument (0 to 20) and by others on the other far side of the argument (80 to 100), highlights what's broken with democracy and open, straightforward, intelligent discussions today. The tail does wag the dog and its the poor dog that suffers and then throws up all over the floor. Its why people buy a houseplant in the end.

 

[Jarnhamar]

No more than an arsonist put out the fire, no

Since we're discussing trade and Trump, this seems bigger than zero. Dig that last one.

CHINESE ACTIONS:

• China will suspend the global implementation of the expansive new export controls on rare earths and related measures that it announced on October 9, 2025.
• China will issue general licenses valid for exports of rare earths, gallium, germanium, antimony, and graphite for the benefit of U.S. end users and their suppliers around the world. The general license means the de facto removal of controls China imposed since 2023.
• China will take significant measures to end the flow of fentanyl to the United States. Specifically, China will stop the shipment of certain designated chemicals to North America and strictly control exports of certain other chemicals to all destinations in the world.
• China will suspend all of the retaliatory tariffs that it has announced since March 4, 2025. This includes tariffs on a vast swath of U.S. agricultural products: chicken, wheat, corn, cotton, sorghum, soybeans, pork, beef, aquatic products, fruits, vegetables, and dairy products.
• China will suspend or remove all of the retaliatory non-tariff countermeasures taken against the United States since March 4, 2025, including China’s listing of certain American companies on its end user and unreliable entity lists.
• China will purchase at least 12 million metric tons (MMT) of U.S. soybeans during the last two months of 2025 and also purchase at least 25 MMT of U.S. soybeans in each of 2026, 2027, and 2028. Additionally, China will resume purchases of U.S. sorghum and hardwood and softwood logs.
• China will take appropriate measures to ensure the resumption of trade from Nexperia’s facilities in China, allowing production of critical legacy chips to flow to the rest of the world.
• China will remove measures it took in retaliation for the U.S.’s announcement of a Section 301 investigation on China’s Targeting the Maritime, Logistics, and Shipbuilding Sectors for Dominance, and remove sanctions imposed on various shipping entities.
• China will further extend the expiration of its market-based tariff exclusion process for imports from the United States and exclusions will remain valid until December 31, 2026.
• China will terminate its various investigations targeting U.S. companies in the semiconductor supply chain, including its antitrust, anti-monopoly, and anti-dumping investigations.

 

[Altair]

Since we're discussing trade and Trump, this seems bigger than zero. Dig that last one.

• China will suspend the global implementation of the expansive new export controls on rare earths and related measures that it announced on October 9, 2025.

In response to the USA

• China will suspend all of the retaliatory tariffs that it has announced since March 4, 2025. This includes tariffs on a vast swath of U.S. agricultural products: chicken, wheat, corn, cotton, sorghum, soybeans, pork, beef, aquatic products, fruits, vegetables, and dairy products.

In response to the USA

• China will suspend or remove all of the retaliatory non-tariff countermeasures taken against the United States since March 4, 2025, including China’s listing of certain American companies on its end user and unreliable entity lists.

In response to the USA

• China will purchase at least 12 million metric tons (MMT) of U.S. soybeans during the last two months of 2025 and also purchase at least 25 MMT of U.S. soybeans in each of 2026, 2027, and 2028. Additionally, China will resume purchases of U.S. sorghum and hardwood and softwood logs.

In response to the USA

• China will take appropriate measures to ensure the resumption of trade from Nexperia’s facilities in China, allowing production of critical legacy chips to flow to the rest of the world.

In response to the USA

• China will remove measures it took in retaliation for the U.S.’s announcement of a Section 301 investigation on China’s Targeting the Maritime, Logistics, and Shipbuilding Sectors for Dominance, and remove sanctions imposed on various shipping entities.

In response to the USA

• China will further extend the expiration of its market-based tariff exclusion process for imports from the United States and exclusions will remain valid until December 31, 2026.

In response to the USA

• China will terminate its various investigations targeting U.S. companies in the semiconductor supply chain, including its antitrust, anti-monopoly, and anti-dumping investigations.

Pretty sure in response to the USA

One does not get to set a house on fire and claim credit for putting it out.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Listen.

Would it suck if the Americans vetoed the Gripen to Canada? Yes.

I don't think so. The Gripen saga was first and foremost born from Fuck Trump. Not any kind of technical, logistical or especially operational expertise.

Obviously there's going to be Canadians who think we can just reverse engineer whip up a jet engine, and electronics, and weapon systems, and weapons, environmental friendly stealth paint like putting an order in at Amazon.ca.

50% +1 rule is great when it's in ones favor.

Gripen fits for countries like Brazil and Thailand. It's not a good fit here no matter how much Canadians hate Trump and think it's a good way to give him the finger.

 

[Jarnhamar]

One does not get to set a house on fire and claim credit for putting it out.

In the business world starting a fire then selling fire fighting equipment and fire insurance seems like a brilliant strategy.

 

[Altair]

I don't think so. The Gripen saga was first and foremost born from Fuck Trump. Not any kind of technical, logistical or especially operational expertise.

Obviously there's going to be Canadians who think we can just reverse engineer whip up a jet engine, and electronics, and weapon systems, and weapons, environmental friendly stealth paint like putting an order in at Amazon.ca.

50% +1 rule is great when it's in ones favor.

Gripen fits for countries like Brazil and Thailand. It's not a good fit here no matter how much Canadians hate Trump and think it's a good way to give him the finger.

It fits perfectly if we are to move away and diversify away from the USA.

Rafale, Eurofighter, Gripen, any will do.

But so far SAAB has the best deal on the table.

But like I said, this has been done to death.

I'll await the announcement.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Wait wait wait, Jarn. Are you saying that we shouldn't listen to the people and should instead let the government decide what "equipment" we as a nation have access to? Just want to make clear your position, because I might have something to say to you about it in another thread you and I are having a discussion in .

We should pay attention to the consequences of the policies people vote for. Millions of Canadians supported a government that pushed through sweeping firearm bans and gave in to misinformed and manipulative gun control lobbying, and now those policies are reality. If voters are proud of that, then they’re also proud of being complicit in restricting freedoms and access to lawful equipment. There's no shortage of irony behind the people who pushed so hard for this also are polled as the most in favour of the military fighting and dying for them against the US.

Edit - wording

 

[Jarnhamar]

It fits perfectly if we are to move away and diversify away from the USA.

Not when the plane is nearly as reliant on the US for parts. And willfully ignores the whole operational side of the argument.

I'll await the announcement.

Just remember getting hurt from I told you so dancing too hard isn't service related