Canadian modular assault rifle project, a C7 replacement?

[markppcli]

That's the job of dets in the platoon or, even more appropriately, the company.

100 percent this. The section is an element of a platoon and isnt going to be off isolated doing it's own thing without support.

 

[MilEME09]

Doesn't work like that, well, not at a cost the GOC would be able to afford any time soon.

Probably why a lot is being dropped with GD OTS on the new round

 

[Jarnhamar]

Carrying a couple 870 12ga shotguns in a section seems more relevant than DMR rifles now days - especially if we're going to be putting 6x or 10x optics on rifles.

 

[OldSolduer]

I think that's too much for a section commander to be concerned with. Perhaps a micro UAS to peak around the corner, but otherwise you are getting away what a section should be focused on, which is direct fire engagements at 100m or less.

100% this. A section commander has enough on their hands already.

 

[Maxman1]

And because there's actually nothing really out on this, anyone know what the solution is going to be with the M203s? Figure they'll just drop them into a standalone kit and call it a day.

If only there was a stand alone launcher out there.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I am reading all the above from you experts and I am starting to think that my old FNC1 with 7.62 cal bullets sounds pretty good ... even if it was heavier.

Jesus chooses a Martini.

 

[markppcli]

If only there was a stand alone launcher out there.

Theres a few options, the 320 stand alone looks good. Of course Colt makes the Eagle so i think we know what we'll get.

 

[PrairieFella]

Theres a few options, the 320 stand alone looks good. Of course Colt makes the Eagle so i think we know what we'll get.

I have minimal exposure to grenade launchers beyond SQ and some ranges - the Eagle looks pretty cool and like a massive improvement. Does anyone actually use them?

 

[KevinB]

Carrying a couple 870 12ga shotguns in a section seems more relevant than DMR rifles now days - especially if we're going to be putting 6x or 10x optics on rifles.

Horrible take
Shotguns are exceedingly limited by ammo capacity, which makes them basically fucking useless in combat.

On the GL, I think the Grenadier is better suited by the M32A1 Multishot Grenade Launcher, (with a short carbine also issued). Then a M230A1 stand alone as an option for Squad/Section leaders for marking.

I do like a micro UAS option of the section/squad level. They are super small they can be controlled on a phone that’s already on the Member and it’s just a tool toolbox aspect. There are also slightly larger 40mm launched systems that can be launched as needed to gain SA. They can be set to follow mode / so clearing a trench system they can indicate limit of exploration on lead elements for fire support direct visually.

Now on the DMR. I am a believer in the DMR at the Platoon level. I’m less and less a believer at the Squad/Section due to High Pressure 5.56mm becoming viable.

Based on your delivery timeframe, I don’t think your new rifle will be high pressure compatible which I think is colossally stupid so com is running high car down here ( high pressure, carbine,) later this year. Having shot a high pressure option from one company I was hitting Larue’s out to 780m very easy with an EoTech and 3x mag from a 11.5” barrel.

There’s definitely still some fleas both on the ammo and the weapon side to work out on my pressure. But realistically what more you want at the squad/ section level? Especially when HighPressure LMG’s are included.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Horrible take
Shotguns are exceedingly limited by ammo capacity, which makes them basically fucking useless in combat.

My 1897 stares at you in angry war crimes

 

[Jarnhamar]

Horrible take
Shotguns are exceedingly limited by ammo capacity, which makes them basically fucking useless in combat.

I was thinking more for an anti-drone role than an offensive weapon.

I don't watch a lot of Ukraine war videos but in the ones I have seen where it's dudes in trenches shooting at drones shotguns clearly have the edge over rifles.

 

[markppcli]

I was thinking more for an anti-drone role than an offensive weapon.

I don't watch a lot of Ukraine war videos but in the ones I have seen where it's dudes in trenches shooting at drones shotguns clearly have the edge over rifles.

100 percent this, i read your shot gun comment as "something to do emergency cuas"


@PrairieFella I've never shot a 320 or Eagle. That said i think once you start having to do weapon transition drills then the way they get used changes to become much more deliberate. As Kevin points out a multi barrel option for dedicated grenadier may be superior. Thats not a bad thing, some times we forget the value of HE in suppression.

 

[BdaDug]

Based on your delivery timeframe, I don’t think your new rifle will be high pressure compatible which I think is colossally stupid so com is running high car down here ( high pressure, carbine,) later this year. Having shot a high pressure option from one company I was hitting Larue’s out to 780m very easy with an EoTech and 3x mag from a 11.5” barrel.

Phase 1 is for the delivery of the General Support variant - presumably, lower-pressure barrels are considered acceptable for that variant when trading delivery timelines for capability. Earlier commentary somewhere on Noah's site (?) indicated that Colt needs a few years to replace the current forges with new systems capable of delivering the enhanced barrel sets. That aligns with the timeline for Phase 2 to deliver the Full Spectrum variant. Presumably additional enhanced high-pressure barrels could be procured later and retrofitted to the GS variants if deemed necessary (?).

 

[KevinB]

I was thinking more for an anti-drone role than an offensive weapon.

I don't watch a lot of Ukraine war videos but in the ones I have seen where it's dudes in trenches shooting at drones shotguns clearly have the edge over rifles.

Realistically no -- but it may make them feel better.

 

[MilEME09]

Phase 1 is for the delivery of the General Support variant - presumably, lower-pressure barrels are considered acceptable for that variant when trading delivery timelines for capability. Earlier commentary somewhere on Noah's site (?) indicated that Colt needs a few years to replace the current forges with new systems capable of delivering the enhanced barrel sets. That aligns with the timeline for Phase 2 to deliver the Full Spectrum variant. Presumably additional enhanced high-pressure barrels could be procured later and retrofitted to the GS variants if deemed necessary (?).

Negative all CMAR will have the same new type of barrel material. The new forges are about to be delivered which is why 2027 was the earliest production could start

 

[KevinB]

Presumably additional enhanced high-pressure barrels could be procured later and retrofitted to the GS variants if deemed necessary (?).

It isn’t just a barrel. Any competent entity is seeing that bolt design and materials, barrel extension, cam pins and the bolt carrier itself also need redesigns. As well as so many folks seem to think that a HP optimized weapon will be able to function just as well with standard current NATO pressure 5.56mm, and that shows they have zero understanding of the actual issues with HICAR.

You also just can’t drive a bullet down a barrel (doesn’t matter material or rifling design, or coating) and not get coppering issues that result in dangerously high pressures of not dealt with.

 

[MilEME09]

It isn’t just a barrel. Any competent entity is seeing that bolt design and materials, barrel extension, cam pins and the bolt carrier itself also need redesigns. As well as so many folks seem to think that a HP optimized weapon will be able to function just as well with standard current NATO pressure 5.56mm, and that shows they have zero understanding of the actual issues with HICAR.

You also just can’t drive a bullet down a barrel (doesn’t matter material or rifling design, or coating) and not get coppering issues that result in dangerously high pressures of not dealt with.

Exactly and the CMAR was designed with the 5.556ER round at its core so everything was designed to handle the round.

 

[daftandbarmy]

There’s definitely still some fleas both on the ammo and the weapon side to work out on my pressure. But realistically what more you want at the squad/ section level? Especially when HighPressure LMG’s are included.

Bayonets... of course

 

[KevinB]

Exactly and the CMAR was designed with the 5.556ER round at its core so everything was designed to handle the round.

Unless Canada is going it alone on its own HP, I wouldn't hold your breath -- we have seen a number of changes since the original contract round was unveiled. I think it is likely safe to say the 2 piece casing is gone the way of the dodo, as it went out before Federal had a contract - and the one piece steel nickel plated casing is probably going to be the base for everyone -- there is an almost 50k PSI difference in a few different rounds, as well as a number of different types and weights of rounds being tested.
I am a big fan of the long rod penetrator (I mean tank guns have been doing that for decades), and a reverse drawn solid copper "Jacket" around it - I am not a fan of the open steel tip penetrators (like the M855A1 bullet) nor the TSX the solid coppers (great anti-personnel - but not so great penetration on anything else). I also question the idea that just because something is Lead Free - Makes it green - as copper and tungsten as well as other alloys are far from green, and just as big a health hazard when atomized by firing.

As much as I hate adjustable gas blocks, the RifleSpeed type block (which is like a FAL - in that it a number of different positions that can adjust for a wide range of pressures) makes a pretty compelling case if one wants to be able to fire a range of ammunition natures down to the current RRLP and RTSA, as well as the hottest HiP AP ammo.

Frankly I would just view old stock NATO pressure ammo as something for legacy uppers, and optimize the system to be able to take a legacy upper for training until that stock is expended.

 

[calculus]

Unless Canada is going it alone on its own HP, I wouldn't hold your breath -- we have seen a number of changes since the original contract round was unveiled. I think it is likely safe to say the 2 piece casing is gone the way of the dodo, as it went out before Federal had a contract - and the one piece steel nickel plated casing is probably going to be the base for everyone -- there is an almost 50k PSI difference in a few different rounds, as well as a number of different types and weights of rounds being tested.
I am a big fan of the long rod penetrator (I mean tank guns have been doing that for decades), and a reverse drawn solid copper "Jacket" around it - I am not a fan of the open steel tip penetrators (like the M855A1 bullet) nor the TSX the solid coppers (great anti-personnel - but not so great penetration on anything else). I also question the idea that just because something is Lead Free - Makes it green - as copper and tungsten as well as other alloys are far from green, and just as big a health hazard when atomized by firing.

As much as I hate adjustable gas blocks, the RifleSpeed type block (which is like a FAL - in that it a number of different positions that can adjust for a wide range of pressures) makes a pretty compelling case if one wants to be able to fire a range of ammunition natures down to the current RRLP and RTSA, as well as the hottest HiP AP ammo.

Frankly I would just view old stock NATO pressure ammo as something for legacy uppers, and optimize the system to be able to take a legacy upper for training until that stock is expended.

Exactly and the CMAR was designed with the 5.556ER round at its core so everything was designed to handle the round.

What ammo spec are we talking here? I've seen video of 75 grain bullets travelling at 3500fps, with a pressure of 100000 psi! I would agree with @KevinB that is a substantial increase over standard NATO 556, which is generically described at 62 gr/~62000 psi. That will be punishing to barrels no matter the metallurgy...