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The Mess => Foreign Militaries => Topic started by: S.M.A. on December 29, 2013, 17:58:14

Title: Turkey acquiring Juan Carlos class LHD/assault carrier from Narvantia shipyards
Post by: S.M.A. on December 29, 2013, 17:58:14
This is the same class of ship currently being built in Australia as the Canberra class as well as in South Korea as the Dokdo class, if I can recall correctly.

NavyRecognition.com link (http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1450)

Quote

Turkey's Undersecretariat for Defense Industries (SSM) just announced via press release that it selected Sedef shipyard as winner of its LPD tender and that final contract negotiations with this shipyard can now begin. Sedef shipyard in Turkey offers a design based on Juan Carlos LHD under the collaboration with Spain's Navantia.

Landing Platform Dock Project
 According to SSM, the Landing Platform Dock Project (LPD)’s main purpose is the acqusition of one Landing Platform Dock in order to meet the operational requirements of Turkish Naval Forces. The scope of the procurement is for:
 - 1 LPD and
 - Four Landing Craft Mechanics (LCM)
 - Twenty seven Amphibious Assault Vehicles (AAV),
 - Two Landing Craft Personnel Vehicles (LCVP),
 - One Commander Boat
 - One RHIB (Rubber Hull Inflated Boat) will be acquired

 One of the requirement was for a Privately Owned Turkish Shipyard to be main contractor, also responsible for design, construction, integration and tests and final performance.

 The other proposals which were rejected were:
RMK Marine Shipyard offering its own indigenous design and Desan shipyard offering a design based on South Korea's Dokdo class. At the early stage of the tender a Chinese company submitted its design proposal but then backed away

Juan Carlos class LHD
The multi-purpose Strategic Projection Ship "Juan Carlos I" is the largest naval unit ever built in Spain. Her NATO denomination is LHD (Landing Helicopter Dock). In June 2007, Australia announced it would purchase and build two ships of the same design to become the Canberra-class landing helicopter docks.

The ship has been designed for 4 mission profiles:
 - Amphibious ship transporting a Marine Corps Force for landings and land support operations.
 - Force projection ship transporting Army forces to any theatre of operations.
 - Aircraft-carrier
 - Non-combatant operations: humanitarian aid, evacuation from crisis zones and hospital-ship in catastrophe areas.




Title: Re: Turkey acquiring Juan Carlos class LHD/assault carrier from Narvantia shipyards
Post by: Oldgateboatdriver on January 02, 2014, 17:55:20
Not quite: The Dokdo class is a indirect descendant of the Principe de Asturia aircraft carrier, which explains its mixed look in between it and the Juan Carlos. It is also the reason the power plant on the Dokdo is much more powerful and they can attain speeds of 24 knots.

As for the Canberra's, they are Juan Carlos class modified to fit the requirements of the Australian Navy and Army. Their hulls and most internal fittings are being built in Spain and they are then brought to Australia for final fitting up of their electronic/weapons suites and other typically Australian fitted equipment.

On an interesting note: The first Australian of the class,  HMAS Canberra, will be commanded by a Canadian officer who moved to Australia a long time ago and switched from the RCN  (then known as the CAF Maritime Command) to the RAN.
Title: Re: Turkey acquiring Juan Carlos class LHD/assault carrier from Narvantia shipyards
Post by: Chris Pook on January 02, 2014, 18:25:51

On an interesting note: The first Australian of the class,  HMAS Canberra, will be commanded by a Canadian officer who moved to Australia a long time ago and switched from the RCN  (then known as the CAF Maritime Command) to the RAN.

Great stuff.   All he has to do is keep feed the Aussies beer and barbies and he'll soon have our first BHS in Esquimalt.

(https://Army.ca/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thetriathloncoach.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F08%2FI-love-it-when-a-plan-comes-together.jpeg&hash=ee473d2a14a3dd0aceef68be7659c257)
Title: Re: Turkey acquiring Juan Carlos class LHD/assault carrier from Narvantia shipyards
Post by: Humphrey Bogart on January 02, 2014, 20:14:00
Not quite: The Dokdo class is a indirect descendant of the Principe de Asturia aircraft carrier, which explains its mixed look in between it and the Juan Carlos. It is also the reason the power plant on the Dokdo is much more powerful and they can attain speeds of 24 knots.

As for the Canberra's, they are Juan Carlos class modified to fit the requirements of the Australian Navy and Army. Their hulls and most internal fittings are being built in Spain and they are then brought to Australia for final fitting up of their electronic/weapons suites and other typically Australian fitted equipment.

On an interesting note: The first Australian of the class,  HMAS Canberra, will be commanded by a Canadian officer who moved to Australia a long time ago and switched from the RCN  (then known as the CAF Maritime Command) to the RAN.

Their Parachute School is also commanded by a Canadian, former RCR Jr Officer who left after being with the Regiment for only a couple of years.  Seems we are well represented down under ;)
Title: Re: Turkey acquiring Juan Carlos class LHD/assault carrier from Narvantia shipyards
Post by: Dimsum on January 02, 2014, 20:55:25
Their Parachute School is also commanded by a Canadian, former RCR Jr Officer who left after being with the Regiment for only a couple of years.  Seems we are well represented down under ;)

There are quite a few Canadians in the RAAF P-3 community.  The Aus Army's UAV regiment (think 4AD) has an ex-RCHA guy as its 2IC, one of the RAN trauma surgeons in the Role 3 was an ex-RCN guy who was on PRE, a few defence scientists swapped from DRDC to DSTO, etc. 

Last deployment, the Air Component Commander (Group Capt, poss 1-star by now?), my XO and a few of the folks I worked with were ex-RCAF folks.  Not one of them regretted making the switch; although to be fair, they all switched during the mid-90s or waited 'til pension.  For the folks who have kept ties back to the CF since, they've been impressed how much we have improved in the 20-odd years since.

As an aside, it's funny that the grass is always greener on the other side.  For every issue I hear about the CAF either on here, in the news or from friends back home, there is a similar issue here.  "Australian-ising" equipment, massive budget cutbacks, recruiting issues...at least we in the CF haven't had the spate of public sex scandals involving the ADF in the past two years which have likely eroded trust and public perception. 

Hell, I get asked fairly regularly if the CAF has a lateral recruitment scheme just like the ADF does.  The hardest part is to explain that not all of Canada looks like Vancouver/Banff   ::)


ETA:  I feel like I've said all of this before.  Feel free to tell me to shut my trap  ;)
Title: Re: Turkey acquiring Juan Carlos class LHD/assault carrier from Narvantia shipyards
Post by: Brihard on January 02, 2014, 23:08:37
ETA:  I feel like I've said all of this before.  Feel free to tell me to shut my trap  ;)

Don't tell me what to do, you're not my real dad.
Title: Re: Turkey acquiring Juan Carlos class LHD/assault carrier from Narvantia shipyards
Post by: NinerSix on January 03, 2014, 01:38:39
Don't tell me what to do, you're not my real dad.

Had I had an extra $20 that night, I could have been.  :P
Title: Re: Turkey acquiring Juan Carlos class LHD/assault carrier from Narvantia shipyards
Post by: S.M.A. on January 03, 2014, 11:15:44
Dimsum,

What about Canadians in the RAN's Sea King community?

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Oldboatgateriver,

The Canadian captain of the HMAS Canberra was already mentioned at this other thread here (http://forums.navy.ca/forums/index.php/topic,99465.msg1229467.html#new).

There are quite a few Canadians in the RAAF P-3 community.  The Aus Army's UAV regiment (think 4AD) has an ex-RCHA guy as its 2IC, one of the RAN trauma surgeons in the Role 3 was an ex-RCN guy who was on PRE, a few defence scientists swapped from DRDC to DSTO, etc. 

Last deployment, the Air Component Commander (Group Capt, poss 1-star by now?), my XO and a few of the folks I worked with were ex-RCAF folks.  Not one of them regretted making the switch; although to be fair, they all switched during the mid-90s or waited 'til pension.  For the folks who have kept ties back to the CF since, they've been impressed how much we have improved in the 20-odd years since.

As an aside, it's funny that the grass is always greener on the other side.  For every issue I hear about the CAF either on here, in the news or from friends back home, there is a similar issue here.  "Australian-ising" equipment, massive budget cutbacks, recruiting issues...at least we in the CF haven't had the spate of public sex scandals involving the ADF in the past two years which have likely eroded trust and public perception. 

Hell, I get asked fairly regularly if the CAF has a lateral recruitment scheme just like the ADF does.  The hardest part is to explain that not all of Canada looks like Vancouver/Banff   ::)


ETA:  I feel like I've said all of this before.  Feel free to tell me to shut my trap  ;)
Title: Re: Turkey acquiring Juan Carlos class LHD/assault carrier from Narvantia shipyards
Post by: dapaterson on January 03, 2014, 11:28:37
On a case by case basis the CAF will consider lateral transfers, primarily from NATO or Commonwealth militaries.  Note that these are generally only done for individuals with specific military skillsets, and the number can generally be counted on one hand over the course of a year.  There are provisions within the CFSA to recognize service in other  Commonwealth militaries for pension purposes; I'm not enough of an expert to know the precise details or implications of such service.


In the mid 90s, the Aussies aggressively recruited Canadians; more than a few took FRP retirement incentives in Canada and Australian Recruiting incentives one after the other - not too bad to be paid to quit one military and then immediately paid to join another.
Title: Re: Turkey acquiring Juan Carlos class LHD/assault carrier from Narvantia shipyards
Post by: Dimsum on January 03, 2014, 11:57:53
Dimsum,

What about Canadians in the RAN's Sea King community?


The RAN sold its Sea Kings in 2011 and replaced them with MRH-90s.  Not sure if there are any ex-RCAF folks there, but I wouldn't be surprised.

Back-ish on topic, it should be interesting to see the Canberra-class in Sydney.  I can't wait to hear the grumbling from the owners/tenants of the pricey condos around Garden Island when their view of the Harbour Bridge and Opera House get blocked by the massive LHDs   >:D
Title: Re: Turkey acquiring Juan Carlos class LHD/assault carrier from Narvantia shipyards
Post by: Chris Pook on January 03, 2014, 13:56:10
How about Mini LHDs instead.... at least to get started.

Something like the San Giorgio's

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Giorgio-class_amphibious_assault_ship

At 7000 to 8000 tonnes displacement they are not too dissimilar in size to the Absalons, Fremms, F100s etc.

Perhaps they could be a variant of the CSC class.  Instead of 15 CSCs including 3 Absalon types perhaps it could be 3 San Giorgio type flat decks.
Title: Re: Turkey acquiring Juan Carlos class LHD/assault carrier from Narvantia shipyards
Post by: Jungle on January 03, 2014, 16:54:18
Quote
The ship has been designed for 4 mission profiles:
 - Amphibious ship transporting a Marine Corps Force for landings and land support operations.
 - Force projection ship transporting Army forces to any theatre of operations.
 - Aircraft-carrier

Turkey will have a useful asset when Cyprus heats up again and they need to reinforce their 2 Divisions there...
Title: Re: Turkey acquiring Juan Carlos class LHD/assault carrier from Narvantia shipyards
Post by: Chris Pook on January 03, 2014, 17:16:16
Here's an interesting little graphic I cooked up with images from the great artists at Shipbucket (http://www.shipbucket.com/)

See the spreadsheet below.

Edit to add the Type 26 Global Combat Ship for comparison

Could either the Type 26 or the Absalon be "modified" to build a San Giorgio in the same yards with the same machinery?
Title: Re: Turkey acquiring Juan Carlos class LHD/assault carrier from Narvantia shipyards
Post by: Journeyman on January 03, 2014, 18:36:53
Here's an interesting little graphic I cooked up ......
  Quiet day on the home front?    :pop:
Title: Re: Turkey acquiring Juan Carlos class LHD/assault carrier from Narvantia shipyards
Post by: Chris Pook on January 03, 2014, 19:06:53
Slow day at work  ;D
Title: Re: Turkey acquiring Juan Carlos class LHD/assault carrier from Narvantia shipyards
Post by: S.M.A. on January 11, 2016, 14:19:35
It's still on: Turkey getting its own LHD of the Juan Carlos class Australia already has 2 of:

Business Insider via Thai Military Defence blog (https://thaimilitaryandasianregion.wordpress.com/2016/01/07/amid-rising-tensions-turkey-is-building-an-aircraft-carrier/)

Quote
Amid rising tensions, Turkey is building an aircraft carrier

Business Insider

JEREMY BENDER

As tensions continue to rise drastically throughout the wider Middle East, Turkey has announced construction plans for a multipurpose aircraft carrier, The Daily Beast reports.

The carrier, named the Anadolu after Turkey’s Anatolia region, will be approximately 740 feet long and is slated to enter service in 2021.

As the carrier is designed for multipurpose missions, it will be able to transport tanks, landing vessels, helicopters, soldiers, and aircraft, according to TDB.


Costing over $1 billion, the carrier will drastically alter Ankara’s ability to project power beyond its borders.

(...SNIPPED)