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Air-Force.ca => Air Force General => Topic started by: FJAG on December 02, 2019, 18:06:31

Title: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: FJAG on December 02, 2019, 18:06:31
Quote
PM's CF-150 Polaris Airbus out of operation until August
Murray Brewster · CBC News · Posted: Dec 02, 2019 3:45 PM ET

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau will be hitching rides on a variety of air force planes for the foreseeable future.

The CF-150 Polaris Airbus that usually shuttles the prime minister to world events is out of commission following a hangar accident last month.

The nearly 30-year-old passenger aircraft, which is specially outfitted with a private cabin, was being towed "by contracted maintenance personnel" at the military's largest airbase in Trenton, Ont., when it "suffered significant structural damage to the nose and right engine cowling," said air force spokesman Lt.-Col Steve Neta.

The aircraft rolled into the back wall of a hangar.

"The incident remains under investigation to determine causes and identify preventive measures," Neta added.

Engineering teams from Airbus, the aircraft's original maker, conducted an assessment and concluded the aircraft will not return to service until August of next year.

Neta said an air safety investigation is underway.

"We do not have sufficient detail about potential costs, or the attribution of those costs, to provide any detail at this time," he said.

Trudeau is attending the NATO summit in London this week; he flew to the U.K. on one of the air force's other C-150s. Neta said the military is confident it can fill the gap in VIP transportation during the interim.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/prime-minister-airbus-grounded-trudeau-1.5381367 (https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/prime-minister-airbus-grounded-trudeau-1.5381367)

The sad story of why we have a CAN FORCE ONE

Quote
Use as VIP transport
The decision to outfit one of the five CC-150s as a VIP transport intended for use by the Prime Minister of Canada, made while Brian Mulroney held office, was politically controversial. The $56 million in upgrades were criticized as a needless extravagance during a time of government budgetary challenges by then-Leader of the Opposition Jean Chrétien, who labelled the aircraft a "flying Taj Mahal". Chrétien became Prime Minister soon thereafter and tried and failed to sell the aircraft; he would refuse to make use of the CC-150 during his ensuing 11 years in office. The aircraft was parked at Canadian Forces Base Uplands on standby, two aircraft were used in its place primarily the CC-144 Challenger.[6] and a second CC-150 when a larger aircraft was required.

Subsequent refits to and from use as a troop transport would result in much of the VIP amenities being downgraded. The CC-150 would return to use as official transport for the prime minister under Paul Martin in 2004.[6]


CC-150 Polaris No. 01 in 2014
In 2011 it emerged that since early 2009 the office of Prime Minister Stephen Harper had repeatedly requested that the CC-150 configured for VIP use be repainted from the gun-metal military paint scheme it shared with the other CC-150s to a specialized paint scheme. The Department of National Defence, including Minister Peter MacKay, had resisted this request, noting that it was contrary to its multi-role nature and would compromise the aircraft's potential to safely transport personnel into a combat zone. The decision was ultimately made to repaint the craft during its next scheduled heavy maintenance.[7]

In 2013, the VIP-configured CC-150, aircraft #01, was repainted during scheduled heavy maintenance at a cost of $50,000. The new scheme, predominantly white with significant quantities of blue and smaller amounts of red, was criticized heavily by opposition politicians, who alleged the repainting was intended to give prominence to the then-governing Conservative Party of Canada's traditional blue colour although the RCAF Roundel consists of the colours blue, white, and red.[8] Its call sign is known officially as CAN Force One.[9]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus_CC-150_Polaris (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus_CC-150_Polaris)

 :brickwall:
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: Quirky on December 02, 2019, 19:35:17
Pics of damage in link: http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/en/flight-safety/article-template-flight-safety.page?doc=cc15001-airbus-from-the-investigator/k35u6unt&fbclid=IwAR3tqCk3lsx8SDfdrbeJ9NU06KYL6XM_kmTdxtZJ_C_36S1FIWq8wwgPOow&utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

Current fleet in RCAF that needs/should be replaced within a decade - CF-18s, Tutors, Tanker/Troop transport, Auroras(?). Intere$ting times.

Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: suffolkowner on December 02, 2019, 19:37:21
Much like the PM's residence it's going to be hard to justify buying a new plane when the government can't/won't get on with replacing the RCAF's non VIP fleet.

But we're at that point where they should be looking at what needs to be done, I'm guessing this will stress the Challenger fleet at least.
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: garb811 on December 02, 2019, 19:54:52
Much like the PM's residence it's going to be hard to justify buying a new plane when the government can't/won't get on with replacing the RCAF's non VIP fleet.

But we're at that point where they should be looking at what needs to be done, I'm guessing this will stress the Challenger fleet at least.
And for those who may have missed the discussion, the the Challenger fleet is already in trouble, not that the Challenger is fully interchangeable with Polaris in any case...

Challenger - needed to comply with the new ADS-B system (https://army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,131430.0.html)

Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: suffolkowner on December 02, 2019, 20:10:59
It's going to be hard to convince NATO that were on top of our Defence spending when we can't even outfit our PM with a VIP aircraft but again so many platforms need replacing how do you justify it? Much like a city council that runs a couple terms with no tax increases and then "all of a sudden" all the roads need paving.

It's going to be a hard sell to replace the tanker fleet before the fighter is chosen as I am guessing they do not want to be seen to prejudice the outcome with regard to probe or boom refuelling unless we choose both(?)
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: Colin P on December 02, 2019, 20:32:49
Pics of damage in link: http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/en/flight-safety/article-template-flight-safety.page?doc=cc15001-airbus-from-the-investigator/k35u6unt&fbclid=IwAR3tqCk3lsx8SDfdrbeJ9NU06KYL6XM_kmTdxtZJ_C_36S1FIWq8wwgPOow&utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

Current fleet in RCAF that needs/should be replaced within a decade - CF-18s, Tutors, Tanker/Troop transport, Auroras(?). Intere$ting times.

Army= Private take this gun tape and fix that....
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: FJAG on December 02, 2019, 20:34:24
Aren't the interior of these things modular? And couldn't you just have a VIP module(s) to switch into a standard CC150 when needed?

 :cheers:
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: milnews.ca on December 02, 2019, 20:39:06
Army= Private take this gun tape and fix that....
It's only 100 mph tape, though ...
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: SeaKingTacco on December 02, 2019, 21:33:56
This is going to be pedantic but:

That particular CC-150 (the article inaccurately labels it as a CF-150, which would make it a fighter) is not CANFORCE 01. No particular CAF aircraft is.

Rather, which ever aircraft happens to be carrying the PM gets that callsign. The aircaft could be a CC-150. Equally, it could be a C-17, Hercules, Aurora, Cyclone or even a CF-18.
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: edlabonte on December 02, 2019, 21:34:34
Aren't the interior of these things modular? And couldn't you just have a VIP module(s) to switch into a standard CC150 when needed?

 :cheers:

Why yes it is, This is in fact the silliest thread ever. They will, and probably have just moved on to tail #2 and filled it up with the VIP layout.  It probably took them the rest of the day to configure the plane.  Yippie do da
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: Quirky on December 02, 2019, 21:48:47
Why yes it is, This is in fact the silliest thread ever. They will, and probably have just moved on to tail #2 and filled it up with the VIP layout.  It probably took them the rest of the day to configure the plane.  Yippie do da

What about the exterior paint job? Can’t have the PM fly around in peasant dark grey colours.
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: suffolkowner on December 02, 2019, 21:49:22
This is going to be pedantic but:

That particular CC-150 (the article inaccurately labels it as a CF-150, which would make it a fighter) is not CANFORCE 01. No particular CAF aircraft is.

Rather, which ever aircraft happens to be carrying the PM gets that callsign. The aircaft could be a CC-150. Equally, it could be a C-17, Hercules, Aurora, Cyclone or even a CF-18.


I'm guessing they're going off the 01 on the aircraft in the picture and the paint job.
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: PPCLI Guy on December 02, 2019, 21:52:43
Why yes it is, This is in fact the silliest thread ever. They will, and probably have just moved on to tail #2 and filled it up with the VIP layout.  It probably took them the rest of the day to configure the plane.  Yippie do da

Huh.  I would not have guessed that.  I have been on that AC a few times, and it did not give the impression of being modular.  Even if is is, I believe that it has been installed in tail 001 for quite a while so I wonder if that might not take a bit longer than one day - and of course it would be very surprising if the RCAF can afford to have a spare Airbus VIP kit laying around.
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: CloudCover on December 02, 2019, 21:56:28
Clever plan by Bombardier to seize the initiative and hire a contractor to smash some old planes into a wall when nobody is looking.

As for call signs? How about “Hairforce One”. 
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: Colin P on December 02, 2019, 22:00:45
Well I think some of these will be available shortly, hey good enough for our servicemen, good enough for the PM

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/DehavillandCC-115Buffalo12.JPG)

I could also point out that aircraft associated with the PM, seem to have a habit of getting bent, either the planes or the crews want a break from his "extraordinaryness" 
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: Good2Golf on December 02, 2019, 22:04:18
This is going to be pedantic but:

That particular CC-150 (the article inaccurately labels it as a CF-150, which would make it a fighter) is not CANFORCE 01. No particular CAF aircraft is.

Rather, which ever aircraft happens to be carrying the PM gets that callsign. The aircaft could be a CC-150. Equally, it could be a C-17, Hercules, Aurora, Cyclone or even a CF-18.

You mean even the two Bombardier 604 Challengers that PM Chretien directed to be purchased on the last day of the fiscal year 2001/2002 for 1/10 of one billion dollars (or 79% more than Mulroney spent on upgrading the Taj) could operate as CANFORCE 1?

;)

Regards
G2G
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: PPCLI Guy on December 02, 2019, 22:06:28
Configured differently from the 2 x 601, creating qualification issues?   Those ones?
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: Good2Golf on December 02, 2019, 22:13:21
Configured differently from the 2 x 601, creating qualification issues?   Those ones?

The very same. 
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: dapaterson on December 02, 2019, 22:18:27
They're different a/c; it's not merely a configuration issue.


Sort of like the hodgepodge of CC130s that were bought piecemeal over time, with lots of variations in configuration, only worse...  (At least now, we're retiring them and moving to a CC130J fleet).
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: Dimsum on December 02, 2019, 23:14:47
As for call signs? How about “Hairforce One”.

The base barber in 17 Wing Winnipeg would like to have a word.
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: daftandbarmy on December 02, 2019, 23:59:42
It's probably a RCAF cry for help, you know, just like the RCN's submarine fender bender with the Corner Brook

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/navy-submarine-damage-severe-internal-report-says-1.1353463

 ;D
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: CloudCover on December 03, 2019, 00:20:31
The base barber in 17 Wing Winnipeg would like to have a word.

I called him. He brushed me off.
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: daftandbarmy on December 03, 2019, 00:34:26
Well I think some of these will be available shortly, hey good enough for our servicemen, good enough for the PM

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/DehavillandCC-115Buffalo12.JPG)

I could also point out that aircraft associated with the PM, seem to have a habit of getting bent, either the planes or the crews want a break from his "extraordinaryness"

Pffffttt.... he already has two planes of his own:


Federal Election 2019: Trudeau defends having second plane during campaign

Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau defended having a second plane during the campaign, saying it was used for cargo, but said they had purchased carbon offsets for planes and buses being used.

https://globalnews.ca/video/5983852/federal-election-2019-trudeau-defends-having-second-plane-during-campaign
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: Oldgateboatdriver on December 03, 2019, 08:13:03
I hope somebody (journalists, opposition parties, Chief Electoral Officer?) remembers to check inclusion in the election's financial filings. Carbon offsets are not cheap. Currently, it's about $19.40 per ton of equivalent CO2 in the California/Quebec/B.C. Cap and trade market.

Would be ashamed to forget inclusion in  the election expenses report.
 ;D
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: Spencer100 on December 03, 2019, 10:50:42
What to take a bet right now?  When that plane emerges from repair the blue strip is gone.
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: Good2Golf on December 03, 2019, 16:25:14
What to take a bet right now?  When that plane emerges from repair the blue strip is gone.

I wouldn’t mind if it does, if they do it by painting it like the 707.  That’s a classic/nice paint job.  “Shamu” was a bit garish, IMO.

Cheers
G2G
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: dapaterson on December 03, 2019, 17:03:20
I say we take the winning entry for the DM/CDS Christmas card contest and paint it full size on the aircraft!
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: Good2Golf on December 03, 2019, 17:18:11
Planey McPlaneface!
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: Baden Guy on December 03, 2019, 20:47:48
I wouldn’t mind if it does, if they do it by painting it like the 707.  That’s a classic/nice paint job.  “Shamu” was a bit garish, IMO.

Cheers
G2G

Things of beauty:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Boeing_CC-137_(707-347C),_Canada_-_Air_Force_AN1064459.jpg

Or the Yukon: http://silverhawkauthor.com/canadian-warplanes-5-the-post-war-piston-era-canadair-cc106-yukon_870.html

Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: cavalryman on December 03, 2019, 22:11:45
Things of beauty:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Boeing_CC-137_(707-347C),_Canada_-_Air_Force_AN1064459.jpg

Or the Yukon: http://silverhawkauthor.com/canadian-warplanes-5-the-post-war-piston-era-canadair-cc106-yukon_870.html
I did one transatlantic crossing in a Yukon from Dusseldorf to Trenton as a six year old the year before the 707s came online and I still vividly remember the mind-numbing monotony half a century later
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: Baden Guy on December 03, 2019, 23:07:49
Many years ago as an LAC, I got a ride on a Yukon to London England. At that time you had to dress in civies, with a tie and sport coat or better. Forget the details but we were served breakfast on tables with real cutlery and linen. Remember the passenger sitting across from me asked where I was going. I replied I was an LAC and going to bum around Europe and then get a standby trip back.   :D
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: FJAG on December 04, 2019, 00:20:03
A Yukon took me from Trenton to Victoria (or maybe Vancouver - where we landed is a bit hazy to me now) in 1969 to attend Basic Officer training at  CFOCS Venture in Esquimalt. My first plane ride ever and didn't think that the rear-facing seats were anything out of the ordinary at the time.

 :cheers:
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: eliminator on December 04, 2019, 09:01:37
The latest CC-150 paint scheme honours the upcoming 75th anniversary of 437 Transport Squadron in 2019. It is a throwback to the red-and-white livery used from 1975 to 1997 on the Boeing CC-137. Galen Burrows Photo

(https://assets.skiesmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/46718955_2080948335300821_2546711050120593408_o-768x512.jpg)
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: FSTO on December 04, 2019, 09:32:04
A Yukon took me from Trenton to Victoria (or maybe Vancouver - where we landed is a bit hazy to me now) in 1969 to attend Basic Officer training at  CFOCS Venture in Esquimalt. My first plane ride ever and didn't think that the rear-facing seats were anything out of the ordinary at the time.

 :cheers:

So you went to "Venture, The Naval Officers Training Centre"?
I went to CFOCS in Chilliwack. Fantastic place to get your initial introduction to the CAF. I flew in the 707 5 or 6 times in the 90's and they really showed their age by then!
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: Spencer100 on December 04, 2019, 13:07:15
Believe it or not. Some CC-137 still flying as JSTARS

"Most of the fleet ended up with the Northrop Grumman E-8 Joint STARS programme either for spare parts or conversion to E-8C standard for the United States Air Force.[6]
Operators" Wikipedia CC-137
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: CloudCover on December 04, 2019, 13:55:20
The alternate CC150 has some problems and cannot fly the PM home from London. A second CC150 has been sent to pick him up.

https://twitter.com/mikelecouteur/status/1202276215551397889?s=20

Enough with the shenanigans about optics of flying the PM around. Lease or buy a new multi purpose fleet, no serious person is going to ding the government for that unless it’s a bombardier product that is chosen.
There are lots of options available to get this done quickly.
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: dapaterson on December 04, 2019, 14:17:42
The alternate CC150 has some problems and cannot fly the PM home from London. A second CC150 has been sent to pick him up.

https://twitter.com/mikelecouteur/status/1202276215551397889?s=20

Enough with the shenanigans about optics of flying the PM around. Lease or buy a new multi purpose fleet, no serious person is going to ding the government for that unless it’s a bombardier product that is chosen.
There are lots of options available to get this done quickly.

To be fair, the Global Express would be a fine replacement for the Challengers...
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: CloudCover on December 04, 2019, 14:43:53
Yes, of course. Along with the SAAB kit that goes with them!
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: Baden Guy on December 04, 2019, 14:53:48
Bombardier Global Express:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8z2kC7TRHc

I can't judge if it would meet whatever the defined need is but I am impressed.

I have always wondered why the PM or other VIPs need to take a large passenger aircraft to go to such events. Does anyone want to enlighten me?
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: dapaterson on December 04, 2019, 15:14:31
Bombardier Global Express:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8z2kC7TRHc

I can't judge if it would meet whatever the defined need is but I am impressed.

I have always wondered why the PM or other VIPs need to take a large passenger aircraft to go to such events. Does anyone want to enlighten me?

Sometimes they don't.  There's a fleet of Challenger jets as well for smaller trips.  (Two different variants, one of which is old enough that it will soon require a waiver to operate in airspace - hence the need to replace at least the older Challengers).

However, for trips with larger contingents, sometimes including media (who pay their own way), it can be more convenient to use a larger aircraft to transport more pax / more cargo / some combination of both.  Like it or not, for a major event like a NATO summit there will be a large contingent, including support and security staff.
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: FJAG on December 04, 2019, 15:44:58
So you went to "Venture, The Naval Officers Training Centre"?
I went to CFOCS in Chilliwack. Fantastic place to get your initial introduction to the CAF. I flew in the 707 5 or 6 times in the 90's and they really showed their age by then!

By 1969, Venture was no longer a Navel Officers Training Centre but a tri-service CF Officers' Candidate School. We were either the last or second last platoon to go through there as Chilliwack had already opened and Venture closed down for BOTC shortly after I left there.

Here's me looking spiffy.

(https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67166535_2498550130283872_2942284435799670784_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_ohc=zCdFVky1YgQAQlXGhObYErHUS4aS49QDzSXWEoQI_AhGfeHL1X8QJHjBg&_nc_ht=scontent-yyz1-1.xx&oh=05b70a783ed812404bfcf12ac77ac4a3&oe=5E734AEC)

 :cheers:
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: dapaterson on December 04, 2019, 15:55:22
... and Venture closed down for BOTC shortly after I left there.

Hmm... correlation does not imply causation, but...
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: FJAG on December 04, 2019, 16:00:16
Hmm... correlation does not imply causation, but...

Let's see now: the Royal Canadian School of Artillery in Shilo closed down and moved to Gagetown after I went there; 3 RCHA is now toast. ... I'm starting to see a trend.

 :facepalm:
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: PPCLI Guy on December 04, 2019, 18:18:08
Here's me looking spiffy.


Yeah...that's it.....exactly the word I was thinking of.....Spiffy.....
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: Blackadder1916 on December 04, 2019, 19:33:40


Here's me looking spiffy.


The summer of '69.  Woodstock, Easy Rider . . .   Yup, add another icon of cool!   Cue music (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9f06QZCVUHg)
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: suffolkowner on December 04, 2019, 19:37:19
Yes, of course. Along with the SAAB kit that goes with them!

I gathered from EITS in the Canadian Arctic thread that it wouldn't be that simple to transition from one airframe to another and that we would probably be running up against the ever so common lack of money/people

Complete failure seems to be one way to get the kit replaced, put off until it's an emergency, than push it through

I believe in 2013(?) three options were presented to the government all of which suggested the complete replacement of all 6 Challengers, then in 2016(?) it was recommended to replace the two older Challenger 601's with used Challenger 604's. New Challengers were judged to be too expensive, so a Global Express at double the cost would look like a non starter, however probably considerably cheaper than an Airbus 310
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: CloudCover on December 04, 2019, 20:24:40
And now they are running out of practical and pragmatic options.

Edit: whatever the cost of the Challengers or Global Express might be, this country has certainly no problem spending far more for less projects.   Neither one however, is a replacement for the Airbus fleet.
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: MarkOttawa on December 04, 2019, 22:47:56
A couple, at least, of A220s? Made at Mirabel.

Mark
Ottawa
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: suffolkowner on December 04, 2019, 23:30:05
A couple, at least, of A220s? Made at Mirabel.

Mark
Ottawa

Right! this should really be a slam dunk. Twin Otters, Dash 8, Challengers, Global Express, A220 how hard a sell could it really be. I don't know what aircraft and in what numbers are needed for the VIP/ transport role or even if this service needs to be provided by the RCAF as opposed to being contracted, but it sure sounds like a decision is going to have to be made sooner rather than later. I'm not sure that any new Global Express or A220 are even available right now as I think there is quite a back order
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: dapaterson on December 04, 2019, 23:36:29
The current production A220s lack the range to serve a VIP transport for a head of state / head of government.   Unless you can add about 50% to the range, they just aren't worth it.
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: Ditch on December 04, 2019, 23:40:17
A330 MRTT

https://www.airbus.com/defence/a330mrtt.html

Ozzies know how to do procurement right...
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: dapaterson on December 04, 2019, 23:45:49
A330 MRTT

Boeing KC-76 Pegasus, with a MOU with Air Canada to maintain Reserve 767 pilots.  Let them fly 10 months a year for Air Canada; we guarantee two months a year of military employment. 

Then get Boeing to develop a 767-based ISR platform so we can save on pilot and maintenance costs...
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: FSTO on December 05, 2019, 07:19:01
By 1969, Venture was no longer a Navel Officers Training Centre but a tri-service CF Officers' Candidate School. We were either the last or second last platoon to go through there as Chilliwack had already opened and Venture closed down for BOTC shortly after I left there.

Here's me looking spiffy.

(https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67166535_2498550130283872_2942284435799670784_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_ohc=zCdFVky1YgQAQlXGhObYErHUS4aS49QDzSXWEoQI_AhGfeHL1X8QJHjBg&_nc_ht=scontent-yyz1-1.xx&oh=05b70a783ed812404bfcf12ac77ac4a3&oe=5E734AEC)
That looks like a fairly new looking Fleet School Pacific building in the background?
 :cheers:
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: Spencer100 on December 05, 2019, 13:27:37
The back up grounded

https://www.nationalnewswatch.com/2019/12/04/trudeaus-plane-damaged-now-backup-plane-grounded-in-london-u-k/#.Xek9825FyUm

Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: YZT580 on December 05, 2019, 16:35:51
Bad optics if they replace the VIP fleet before concluding the F18 replacement competition.  The opposition would have a field day with that one.  Granted the 150's are used for a whole lot more than flying the bosses around but that little fact is not what is thought of when the fleet is mentioned. Add the airbus ailments to the need to replace the challengers and you have the basis for another bad hair day
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: milnews.ca on December 05, 2019, 16:56:16
Bad optics if they replace the VIP fleet before concluding the F18 replacement competition.
True, but there would also be merit in some non-partisan consideration because it won't always be one team or another in power, so it's really an issue for both the winning team and the next winning team as the government in waiting (of sorts).

I know, dare to dream ...
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: FJAG on December 05, 2019, 18:01:40
Flew in the Governor General's Cosmo once.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/CanadairCC109Cosmopolitan.JPG)

Maybe we can get them back.  ;D
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: Baden Guy on December 05, 2019, 20:29:19
If I remember correctly.... In the Cosmo we sat on a couch pushed against the wall/fuselage. Had seat belt on but still leaned sideways on landing.  ;)
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: daftandbarmy on December 05, 2019, 22:15:53
If I remember correctly.... In the Cosmo we sat on a couch pushed against the wall/fuselage. Had seat belt on but still leaned sideways on landing.  ;)

In the Cosmo in Freddie, we sat on couch sized cougar on Saturday nights before the lights came on at 2am... because: Infantry :)
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: FJAG on December 05, 2019, 22:20:03
If I remember correctly.... In the Cosmo we sat on a couch pushed against the wall/fuselage. Had seat belt on but still leaned sideways on landing.  ;)

Yup. And I seem to remember a table with an inlaid map of Canada.

 :cheers:
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: SeaKingTacco on December 06, 2019, 01:04:16
Flew in the Governor General's Cosmo once.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/CanadairCC109Cosmopolitan.JPG)

Maybe we can get them back.  ;D

Kelowna Flightcraft owns them and they are still flying air cargo...
Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: suffolkowner on December 06, 2019, 19:58:50
a plane ready to go for some vip fleet relief just needs to be found/seized

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/03/02/canada-lent-a-family-41-million-to-buy-a-luxury-jet-now-the-jet-is-missing/


Title: Re: CAN FORCE ONE grounded in hangar accident
Post by: dapaterson on June 18, 2020, 18:16:33
Improper chocks, improper training, $11M in repairs that just started last month, not flying again before January 2021... and DND is asking L3 to pay, since the aircraft was under their control at the time. 

http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/en/flight-safety/article-template-flight-safety.page?doc=cc15001-airbus-epilogue/k35u6unt

https://twitter.com/MercedesGlobal/status/1273712591349714946
https://twitter.com/MercedesGlobal/status/1273725057676783616